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How to make Bleach fans stop wanking

Tired_Author_21 said:
Ok, that is a fair argument. Except Gin is the worst source for his own ability. All his dialogs about his Bankai were lies in one way or another. He is literally the worst source.

As for your previous statements, saying a Ray of light doesn't move at lightspeed is incorrect. I grant you the Cero, but Negacion is(in the Databooklet) stated to be a "Ray of light"
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IIRC Gin's statement was backed up by a databook and he really didn't have any reason to lie about his speed.

If Cero which is stated to be light and has variable speed then there's no reason to think Negación isn't the same. Also this is a feat explicitly shown in the manga vs a feat that could be easily be Kubo's mistake due to lack of knowledge.
 
Azevedo128 said:
IIRC Gin's statement was backed up by a databook and he really didn't have any reason to lie about his speed.

If Cero which is stated to be light and has variable speed then there's no reason to think Negación isn't the same. Also this is a feat explicitly shown in the manga vs a feat that could be easily be Kubo's mistake due to lack of knowledge.
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Go through this, it took just a few minutes to search up. I'm sure I could've dug a lot more. Make sure to read through the annotations, those contain small explanations



Edit: For whatever reason the scan order is jumbled, so go into Imgur to see the proper order of things.

Edit2: Basically, the summary is Aaroniero = FTL, thus:

Aaroniero = 9th Espada, Gin should be above the Espada in terms of power, speed, and hax, at the very least he should be the same power as the top Espada.

Aaroniero is able to dodge rays of light, which move at light speed, thus from here onward anything faster than Aaroniero is faster than light.

This argument is if you don't believe the Cero argument of course.

Aizen btw is stronger and faster than the Espada since before the Soul Society Arc, which would mean by default that all Aizen keys should be FTL.
 
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Black coffin stomps!
0390-018.png

Should help u understand better
 
Azevedo128 said:
Kubo never states all of those light based abilities are lightspeed and since they can become faster it also means they can become slower too so you can't argue their lightspeed.
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Reishi (spiritual matter) is the exact same as Kishi (Physical matter). They're like two halves of the same coin. Like Ichigo's human body and shinigami body. Excpet, Reishi has the property of being able to be amped by people's Reiryoku (Spiritual Energy) in order to be greater than it's original property. Like how pre fullbring training, Ichigo's spiritual body was massively stronger than his human body.

Toshiro's Ice is faster, more durable than, and able to do more damage than any 'physical matter' ice can do. Yama's fire can do things that natural fire can't. And even in the CFYOW Novel, it's explicitly stated that Candice's lightning surpassed any lightning found in nature.

Ironically, in that same fight, Giriko mentions the speed difference between lightning and light, and in that same sequence of events and through the rest of the Novel, Cero's are called light, rays of light, or flashes of light, whether they're normal, Gran Rey, or otherwise. Does that mean they're all the same speed? No. Toshiro's ice and Rukia's ice are both ice, but their capabilities are based on the user. Same for Momo's fire and Yama's fire. etc

I don't remember if there's ever been an example in Bleach of someone's reiryoku enhancement of a natural property being inferior to the living world kishi equivalent. People like the Fullbringers can even make Kishi equivalents strong by drawing on what little bit of Reishi that exists in the living world from the physical objects be it things in their environment or their specific fullbrings. So even just a tiny bit of reishi in physical objects can make them jump from regular everyday items to whatever level you scale fullbringers to.

Gillians specifically have 2 techniques stated to be light. Cero and Negacion. Unless I'm remembering wrong, Gillian is the weakest class of hollows that can use Cero, so if we say that a Gillian class' spiritual energy added to the cero doesn't amplify it's power or speed at all which is a lowball but a fair baseline lowball, we can just have the Gillian Class light based abilities move at baseline SoL, and then higher class of hollows and stronger characters upscale to varying degrees.

Obviously not by Wiki Standards, but there's much more evidence and statements for Lightspeed+ Bleach than Mach speed Bleach. Even things like Espada 9 avoiding the sunlight before it hit him, and scans/calcs I've seen floating around of characters outpacing their own shadows and such. There are other attacks called light as well, not just Ceros. Quincy arrows, Yhwach's light, and more I can't remember off the top.
 
Jo-Smooth said:
Reishi (spiritual matter) is the exact same as Kishi (Physical matter). They're like two halves of the same coin. Like Ichigo's human body and shinigami body. Excpet, Reishi has the property of being able to be amped by people's Reiryoku (Spiritual Energy) in order to be greater than it's original property. Like how pre fullbring training, Ichigo's spiritual body was massively stronger than his human body.

Toshiro's Ice is faster, more durable than, and able to do more damage than any 'physical matter' ice can do. Yama's fire can do things that natural fire can't. And even in the CFYOW Novel, it's explicitly stated that Candice's lightning surpassed any lightning found in nature.

Ironically, in that same fight, Giriko mentions the speed difference between lightning and light, and in that same sequence of events and through the rest of the Novel, Cero's are called light, rays of light, or flashes of light, whether they're normal, Gran Rey, or otherwise. Does that mean they're all the same speed? No. Toshiro's ice and Rukia's ice are both ice, but their capabilities are based on the user. Same for Momo's fire and Yama's fire. etc

I don't remember if there's ever been an example in Bleach of someone's reiryoku enhancement of a natural property being inferior to the living world kishi equivalent. People like the Fullbringers can even make Kishi equivalents strong by drawing on what little bit of Reishi that exists in the living world from the physical objects be it things in their environment or their specific fullbrings. So even just a tiny bit of reishi in physical objects can make them jump from regular everyday items to whatever level you scale fullbringers to.

Gillians specifically have 2 techniques stated to be light. Cero and Negacion. Unless I'm remembering wrong, Gillian is the weakest class of hollows that can use Cero, so if we say that a Gillian class' spiritual energy added to the cero doesn't amplify it's power or speed at all which is a lowball but a fair baseline lowball, we can just have the Gillian Class light based abilities move at baseline SoL, and then higher class of hollows and stronger characters upscale to varying degrees.

Obviously not by Wiki Standards, but there's much more evidence and statements for Lightspeed+ Bleach than Mach speed Bleach. Even things like Espada 9 avoiding the sunlight before it hit him, and scans/calcs I've seen floating around of characters outpacing their own shadows and such. There are other attacks called light as well, not just Ceros. Quincy arrows, Yhwach's light, and more I can't remember off the top.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that completes my post and makes it clearer.
 
Jo-Smooth said:
Reishi (spiritual matter) is the exact same as Kishi (Physical matter). They're like two halves of the same coin. Like Ichigo's human body and shinigami body. Excpet, Reishi has the property of being able to be amped by people's Reiryoku (Spiritual Energy) in order to be greater than it's original property. Like how pre fullbring training, Ichigo's spiritual body was massively stronger than his human body.

Toshiro's Ice is faster, more durable than, and able to do more damage than any 'physical matter' ice can do. Yama's fire can do things that natural fire can't. And even in the CFYOW Novel, it's explicitly stated that Candice's lightning surpassed any lightning found in nature.

Ironically, in that same fight, Giriko mentions the speed difference between lightning and light, and in that same sequence of events and through the rest of the Novel, Cero's are called light, rays of light, or flashes of light, whether they're normal, Gran Rey, or otherwise. Does that mean they're all the same speed? No. Toshiro's ice and Rukia's ice are both ice, but their capabilities are based on the user. Same for Momo's fire and Yama's fire. etc

I don't remember if there's ever been an example in Bleach of someone's reiryoku enhancement of a natural property being inferior to the living world kishi equivalent. People like the Fullbringers can even make Kishi equivalents strong by drawing on what little bit of Reishi that exists in the living world from the physical objects be it things in their environment or their specific fullbrings. So even just a tiny bit of reishi in physical objects can make them jump from regular everyday items to whatever level you scale fullbringers to.

Gillians specifically have 2 techniques stated to be light. Cero and Negacion. Unless I'm remembering wrong, Gillian is the weakest class of hollows that can use Cero, so if we say that a Gillian class' spiritual energy added to the cero doesn't amplify it's power or speed at all which is a lowball but a fair baseline lowball, we can just have the Gillian Class light based abilities move at baseline SoL, and then higher class of hollows and stronger characters upscale to varying degrees.

Obviously not by Wiki Standards, but there's much more evidence and statements for Lightspeed+ Bleach than Mach speed Bleach. Even things like Espada 9 avoiding the sunlight before it hit him, and scans/calcs I've seen floating around of characters outpacing their own shadows and such. There are other attacks called light as well, not just Ceros. Quincy arrows, Yhwach's light, and more I can't remember off the top.
Click to expand...
Explain me why Kubo wrote Gin's ability to be Mach 500 then? If he really thought Bleach characters were FTL then he'd have said Gin was 500 times faster than light not sound.

Toshiro, Yama, Rukie, etc... Have stronger/faster versions of their elements because they are themselves stronger/faster than the natural element so they create a version that is comparable to them. On the other hand Ceros/Negación are used by character that have no lightspeed feats themselves so their abilities should be comparable to them.

Again this is the author going out of his way to show the speed of his character VS assumptions that are based on feats that are obviously oversights of the author.
 
Azevedo128 said:
Explain me why Kubo wrote Gin's ability to be Mach 500 then? If he really thought Bleach characters were FTL then he'd have said Gin was 500 times faster than light not sound.
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gin lied.
Azevedo128 said:
On the other hand Ceros/Negación are used by character that have no lightspeed feats themselves so their abilities should be comparable to them.
Click to expand...
you don't need ls feats yourself for your abilities to be ls.

Azevedo128 said:
Again this is the author going out of his way to show the speed of his character VS assumptions that are based on feats that are obviously oversights of the author.
Click to expand...
The author makes it pretty obvious that he wants the verse to be portrayed as reaching ls to outright ftl by the tybw
 
Azevedo128 said:
Explain me why Kubo wrote Gin's ability to be Mach 500 then? If he really thought Bleach characters were FTL then he'd have said Gin was 500 times faster than light not sound.

Toshiro, Yama, Rukie, etc... Have stronger/faster versions of their elements because they are themselves stronger/faster than the natural element so they create a version that is comparable to them. On the other hand Ceros/Negación are used by character that have no lightspeed feats themselves so their abilities should be comparable to them.

Again this is the author going out of his way to show the speed of his character VS assumptions that are based on feats that are obviously oversights of the author.
Click to expand...
Pls go through what other people have stated...

Gin lied about his Bankai an exact 3 times. The argument that he could be lying is plausible, not to mention the fact that other statements like ceros being made of light, the Negacion being stated to be "Beams of light" or "Rays of Light" means they move at light speed, unless you can prove that a ray of light that moves slower than light.

Aaroniero legit just dodged sunlight beams, which are made of light. Even if you don't believe the previously stated, Aaroniero dodges light from touching his skin, which means he reacts to the light and moves faster than said light.

Please stop making this statement, and don't bring "Author" intent into this, it's not a point that could be made here, you don't know what the author is thinking, and even if you did, if we're going on this line of thought: "Why did Kubo go out of his way to state these were "beams of light" or "made of light" and why do all the works he supervises go along with this narrative?"
 
Azevedo128 said:
Explain me why Kubo wrote Gin's ability to be Mach 500 then? If he really thought Bleach characters were FTL then he'd have said Gin was 500 times faster than light not sound.

Toshiro, Yama, Rukie, etc... Have stronger/faster versions of their elements because they are themselves stronger/faster than the natural element so they create a version that is comparable to them. On the other hand Ceros/Negación are used by character that have no lightspeed feats themselves so their abilities should be comparable to them.

Again this is the author going out of his way to show the speed of his character VS assumptions that are based on feats that are obviously oversights of the author.
Click to expand...
One statement that was later told as a lie vs multiple feats and statements in the manga and novels, with one specifically clarifying the difference between lightning speed and light speed in the same sequence of events with a lightning user and light user. And even with the lightning user, her better attacks were said to surpass any lightning found in nature so it’s not even limiting her to lightning speed

The Gin statement is pretty much the only major counter outside of the wiki where it doesn’t meet the standards for light, and that’s based on a lie, Gin clapping his hands, and such
 
Aaroniero evaded sunlight, multipliers get the top tiers then to at least FTL+ to MFTL, GRC is continental, multipliers get mid high tiers into multi con, SAFWY puts the top tiers at planetary via statements. Bleach top tiers are easily FTL+ to MFTL and Planetary, BC is getting negged low diff.
 
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