How far into 3-A are the ones for DBS

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

If we assume both "A timeline is created by the smallest of things" & "The Multiverse has infinite paths" statements from XV in conjecture, it's at least millions of times into the "countless" range for the bottom of the scaling barrel . And technically XV Goku has a bigger scaling chain, especially Post-Tokipedia, then even Heroes Goku has because it scales to everyone revelant in the story, from Battle of Gods to Tournament of Power + Beyond .

 

[DragonEmperor23]

''claps''

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Demon God Dabura in lore was giving Base Goku Xeno trouble just before Kid Buu snuck up behind him and absorbed him. going by lore of DBH, Dark Demon Realm is where powerscaling a lot of characters to 2-B would stim/Come from.

 

[AKM sama]

I don't think base Goku at the end of ToP scales to full power Golden Frieza or Android 17 in any way because they were all heavily weakened by the end.

Anyway, I don't want to delve into numbers because a lot of stuff is unknown to us and if this universe size calc is accepted it will also have an effect on characters. But I think they are easily in the millions.

 

[Dark649]

I agree with AKM.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Can Android 17 even get weakened?

 

[BlackeJan]

My thing is this....looking at @Peters scaling at the top, how come most them is not High 3A or Low 2C if they are THAT high

 

[Warren_Valion]

3-A is an infinite-sized tier.

You can't get to High 3-A via multipliers.

 

[BlackeJan]

I'm still not understanding though that Beerus can destroy his own Universe yet it's "infinite-sized"

 

[AKM sama]

Can Android 17 even get weakened?

Why can't he? If your whole body is bruised and battered, obviously you'd find it difficult to fight someone who you could've easily beaten if you were well.

 

[Peter1129]

Vegeta blew himself up just like 17 and didn't get any rest and he was still able to fight against Jiren in SSBE. Goku kept getting beat up and recovered his stamina and power multiple times in a few minutes in the tournament. Frieza literally got beat up by GoD Toppo a few minutes prior than woke up a minute or two later and went Golden against Jiren. So why would 17 get any weaker from blowing himself once when he had rest for a few minutes on top of having infinite stamina?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Because he has infinite stamina and a never-ending supply of energy.

 

[BlackPAIN99]

3-A is an infinite-sized tier.
You can't get to High 3-A via multipliers.

Kefla disagrees.

From 3-A to Low 2C with one multiplier.

 

[Peter1129]

Actually it's more like Dragon Ball in general disagrees. A bunch of DBS characters have jumped from 3-A to Low 2-C after they reached a certain lvl of power. Because the gap between 3-A and Low 2-C isn't infinite in Dragon Ball.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Technically you could argue them jumping from 3-A to High 3-A then Low 2-C ... Because of Supressed Jiren shaking the World of Void (Not sure if it's counted as High 3-A), then Jiren having to put more power fighting SSB W/ kkx20 than,,,well... walking.

So I do agree that DBZ doesn't care about tier jumps... At all.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Kefla disagrees.

From 3-A to Low 2C with one multiplier.

That's because she has scaling to a feat in the form.

 

[BlackeJan]

^^^^

Not only that though she even stated herself that "she can one shot a Universe"

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Correction, she felt she could do it.

Which I can't even guess how it "feels" like you can blow up an universe.

 

[BlackeJan]

^^^^

Well yeah she said that but it's funny cause everyone been 3A since BoG so for her statement it's legit

 

[AKM sama]

Infinite stamina means Android 17 can never get tired. He can keep fighting at his full strength while his opponent's power decreases with the decrease in stamina.

It doesn't mean he can't get weakened by other means. If my body is injured, even if I'm not tired my attacks won't be the same as when I'm 100% physically fit.

Android 17 kept blowing himself up time and again, Freeza kept receiving heavy punishment and got knocked out over and over, Jiren got beaten by UI Goku and later Frieza and 17, and Goku wasn't even able to stand or open his eyes properly before he started fighting and wasn't even able to go Super Saiyan. To say that Goku is stronger than full power Freeza and 17 is wrong interpretation. If anything, they were all so weakened that they fell down to base Goku's level.

 

[Sptflcrw]

^^^^
Not only that though she even stated herself that "she can one shit a Universe"

Uh... I don't think she can do that...

 

[DragonEmperor23]

This is the absolute lowest low ball you could give to the DBS 3-As.
8 (End of Battle of Gods/Resurrection of Frieza/Universe 6 Tournament Base Goku) x 40 = 320 (Universe 6 Tournament SS1) x 2 = 640 (Universe 6 Tournament SS2) x 2 = 1,280 (Universe 6 Tournament SS3) x 2 = 2,560 (Universe 6 Tournament SSG) x 40 = 102,400 (Universe 6 Tournament SSB) x 10 = 1,024,000 (Universe 6 Tournament SSBKKx10/Future Trunks Saga SSB/Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSG) x 40 = 40,960,000 (Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSB) x 20 = 819,200,000 (Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSBKKx20/Broly Saga Base) x 40 = 32,768,000,000 (Broly Saga SS1)

"The Kaioken multipliers which are 2-20 are accepted by the staff. Super Saiyan 1 being 40x was also accepted. After that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 doesn't have an accepted multiplier so I just low balled and said they were only 2x. Super Saiyan God also didn't have one so I low balled and said it's only 10x even though the multiplier is likely at least over 100x since it's even more powerful than a hypothetical fusion of Vegito in Battle of Gods. And Super Saiyan Blue is the Super Saiyan 1 version of Super Saiyan God so it's 40x stronger. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken is basically Kaioken stacked on Super Saiyan Blue. After that you also factor in the power ups Goku gained in between sagas and that's about it."

Okay, I'm just bumping this with this post summarizing it in case there's someone who disagrees and hasn't seen it.

 

[Peter1129]

I actually changed SSG from 10x to 2x on the scaling chain so yeah it's pretty much ridiculously low balled at this point. Although there are some parts of the scaling chain that needs to be changed. Specifically which god form Broly Saga Base Goku scales to.

 

[AKM sama]

SSJ grade 4 is more than 2x of SSJ grade 2 and SSJ2 is also more than 2x of grade 4.

 

[Peter1129]

This is a low ball scaling so every other form that doesn't have an accepted multiplier will just be 2x.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

A lot of the scaling thrown around here is pure conjecture and will never be legitimately on any profile.

 

[Peter1129]

@Matthew The only thing that's not on the profile is the Post-UI/Broly Saga stuff. And like I've said before everything else such as Post-Future Trunks Saga SSB Goku being stronger than U6 Saga SSBKKx10 Goku has been on Goku's profile for quite a while now. If you don't believe me you can check it yourself.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

A lot of the scaling thrown around here is pure conjecture and will never be legitimately on any profile.

Could you give your view of how the scaling chain is?

 

[Giygas3]

"8 (End of Battle of Gods/Resurrection of Frieza/Universe 6 Tournament Base Goku) x 40 = 320 (Universe 6 Tournament SS1) x 2 = 640 (Universe 6 Tournament SS2) x 2 = 1,280 (Universe 6 Tournament SS3) x 2 = 2,560 (Universe 6 Tournament SSG) x 40 = 102,400 (Universe 6 Tournament SSB) x 10 = 1,024,000 (Universe 6 Tournament SSBKKx10/Future Trunks Saga SSB/Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSG)"

I'm a little iffy saying that TOP SSG Goku is as strong as Hit. I haven't watched it in a while, so I could be wrong. Assuming in truth he is, then let's go from there.

"x 20 = 819,200,000 (Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSBKKx20/Broly Saga Base) "

Okay, I disagree with this part. I don't think Broly saga Base should scale to Pre-UIS SSBKKx20. I don't believe there is any evidence for this.

"x 40 = 32,768,000,000 (Broly Saga SS1) "

Refer to, "Broly saga Base shouldn't scale to Pre-UIS SSBKKx20.

A better chain would be this: "8 (End of Battle of Gods/Resurrection of Frieza/Universe 6 Tournament Base Goku) x 40 = 320 (Universe 6 Tournament SS1) x 2 = 640 (Universe 6 Tournament SS2) x 2 = 1,280 (Universe 6 Tournament SS3) x 2 = 2,560 (Universe 6 Tournament SSG) x 40 = 102,400 (Universe 6 Tournament SSB) x 10 = 1,024,000 (Universe 6 Tournament SSBKKx10/ Pre Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSB) * 20 = 20,480,000 (SSBkx20 Pre Universe Survival Saga pre-UIS). If SSG Goku during the TOP of power so happens to be as strong as Hit, then we'll get an overall 819,200,000X for SSBkx20 Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS. Not sure what Broly's base would be on this, and everyone above this scales to Low 2-C, so can't count it for 3-A.

 

[Peter1129]

Just saying this scaling chain was made before I watched the Broly Movie and just looked at the spoilers summaries and trailers. And the Broly Saga stuff still have problems due to people having different opinions so it's unusable. But everything entrepreneurs that should be fine.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

A lot of the scaling thrown around here is pure conjecture and will never be legitimately on any profile.

Amen to this

 

[Peter1129]

Can you guys at least say what part of the scaling you disagree with other than the Broly Saga stuff (everybody has different opinions on that so it should probably be put on hold until the anime returns). Everything else is already on the profile. SSG being comparable or stronger than his SSB from the previous arc isn't on Goku's profile but it is mentioned on Dyspo's profile.

 

[Giygas3]

@Peter1129 Read my message.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

@Giygas

"By the Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSG Goku became stronger than End of FT Saga SSB Goku since he manages to keep up with Base Dyspo who was beating an even more powerful Hit."

This is the reasoning for that.

 

[Giygas3]

Okay, if that's true (I would have to go rewatch the episode). The only major problems with your scaling chain comes to trying to say that Broly Saga Base should scale to SSBx20 Pre UI Goku.

 

[Peter1129]

That came from Post-UI Base Goku saving Android 17 and Friez while being severely weakened. But some people disagree with that because they believe they were weakened. And they are saying the scaling from the Broly Movie Base Goku being stronger than Post-Limit Break SSG Vegeta is an outlier.

So right now the Broly Saga stuff is unusable. But everything before that is fine as it's already on the profile.

 

[Giygas3]

" Post-UI Base Goku saving Android 17 and Frieza. But some people disagree with that because they believe they were weakened."

I'm also one of those people. Jiren was pretty much half dead during the fight, and everyone else was clearly tired or heavily damaged.

"Broly Movie Base Goku being stronger than Post-Limit Break SSG Vegeta "

Would agree it's an outlier, unless there is some statements backing this up as well.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Would agree it's an outlier, unless there is some statements backing this up as well.

It was shown to us on the film, it was written in the novelization, and WoG states that Goku is "reaching the level of the Gods" with Vegeta "desperately" trying to catch up showing that there is a discrepancy in their power.

 

[Peter1129]

Well if it's anything the light novel is accepted as canon by the staff now. And in the Goku vs Broly fight I think they mentioned something about initial Wrath Broly needing to block ki blasts from Base Goku if he can't dodge them. And just prior to this in the SSG Vegeta vs initial Wrath Broly fight they said his attacks didn't affect Broly. Even when he kicked him in the head it could only slightly tilt Broly's upper body forward.

Though don't quote me on the Goku vs Broly stuff since I only read the google translates of the scans.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, the light novel was accepted since it doesn't contradict anything and actually supports Base Goku being that much stronger than Vegeta as we see in the film and the statement of Vegeta desperately trying to catch up.