- 3,046
- 588
I don’t think they have the power. It’s highly doubtful that they both have the stats Gotenks had back then, especially with how little they train.
Which reminds me of the part in Super where Goten almost got trained by Whis.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragon Ball Daima Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ednaxel2
- Start date
Which reminds me of the part in Super where Goten almost got trained by Whis.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,474
- 9,394
- 3,322
- 2,672
Goten and Trunks are 2-C and fought Post-SH SS Gohan in the latest chapter. He even went Ultimate at the end of the fight. It's also stated and shown in the SH adaptation that Goten and Trunks do train regularly and the only reason they hadn't just before SH was because they got grounded. After SH they immediately resumed training and Gohan even notes that they've grown a lot since the fight with Cell Max.
Goten and Trunks even participate in the Saiyan brawl at the end by fighting Broly.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,474
- 9,394
So where do they scale?
- 3,322
- 2,672
Goten + Trunks give SS Gohan a good fight, have some equal exchanges one-on-one, have relative speed and Gohan opted to go for Ultimate over SS2 to push them harder.
So I'd overall say they're individually half Gohan's power. Who is relative to Base Piccolo in SS1 who has scaling to Ultimate Gohan in the Moro Saga.
Something like:
SS Gohan (Post-SH) = SS Goten + SS Trunks (Post-SH) > Base Piccolo (SH) > Base Piccolo (Moro) ~ Ultimate Gohan (Moro) > Ultimate Gohan (ToP) = SS Kefla > (50x) > Base Kefla > SS Kale ~ CSSB Goku (ToP)
So they'd scale above ToP Goku Blue roughly.
Even ignoring all of that we know Gohan and Goku are fairly relative in their forms. Goku is 2-C in all forms so Gohan is 2-C in all forms. Which means Goten and Trunks are 2-C in all forms because they're relative to Gohan. The worst scale I've gotten for them is SS Goten or SS Trunks being comparable to Post-Zenkai SS Black (who is also 2-C)
- 5,799
- 745
O yay I almost forgot they don't even have the "I knew and saw it that's why I got it faster"
They legit got SS3 all on there own in like 6 months
- 3,046
- 588
Oh, I don't read the manga so I didn't know that. In the main canon they're basically 2-C by default for participating in the fight against Cell Max.
BitestDust
He/Him- 80
- 34
Hey guys, what new in DBD was stated? Have we some new feats or other interesting stuff?
I saw SS3 Vegeta, he finally did it haha!
I saw SS3 Vegeta, he finally did it haha!
- 3,046
- 588
No new Dead By Daylight news, sadly.
- 6,637
- 6,767
Some Dragon Ball news. More content is possibly gonna be announced this year.
- 3,322
- 2,672
Yeah, even though they felt Goku's power when he went 3 they had no idea there were levels beyond Super Saiyan. I don't think that's contradicted anywhere besides Goten apparently not overhearing Piccolo or Krillin or someone talking about Goku going past Super Saiyan but even if that's the case Goten still never actually saw 3, only felt the power of it.
And it's even more absurd than you think. WAY more absurd. Because they trained together with zero supervision for less than 30 minutes. 1 Minute in the HTC is equivalent to 6 hours so that's only 180 hours or around 7 days. So Goten and Trunks training together for a singular week managed to discover Super Saiyan 3 completely on their own.
- 2,782
- 3,336
It’s kind of funny. They figured it out in a week, and rested up a couple of days. Then they purposefully went and posed to wait for Buu. I have to imagine they stood there hours each day just so they can get that moment right and seem cool when the door opens because they had no idea when it would.
- 16,697
- 14,742
I'll watch later, if it's not ass I'll calc it.
- 5,799
- 745
Like we should really have more lifting strength fests by now... sonic somehow has immeasurable lifting strength! What did he do?
- 3,046
- 588
Have a lot of wankers on this site
- 13,260
- 2,845
We have a better chance of immeasurable speed then that lol
- 6,970
- 9,679
It's pretty funny to imagine that Dragon Ball has some of the best feats and scaling when it comes to justifying things like its speed and power, but has a hard time giving us good lifting strength feats...even though I think what we got is fine enough.
I guess he has the right scaling and arguments to justify such a rating? I don't see what Sonic has to do in this line of thought.
- 3,346
- 4,640
If we allowed multipliers to apply LS feats we wouldn't have this issue
- 3,046
- 588
We really don’t. All our stats (ESPECIALLY ones from Super) are basically patchwork profiles based on the stuff we COULD glean from what we were given. And the stuff we can glean keeps making us lose Death Battles.
- 16,697
- 14,742
Do it backwards so we get 0.00000kg Vegito.
- 6,970
- 9,679
I agree with this, honestly. We know that transformations, especially the Super Saiyan forms and other equivalent forms, increase a user's capabilities in every capacity so I don't understand why it can't be used that a transformation increases the amount of weight a user can lift. I mean, we literally see this when Goku uses Super Saiyan to better lift forty ton weights so that's something to keep in mind.
- 6,970
- 9,679
If what's currently on the profiles isn't to your liking, put in the work or collaborate with others to get these profiles to your liking as long as the arguments make sense and are sound.
Don't see what Dragon Ball losing in Death Battles has to do with the quality of our profiles here on VBW.
- 16,697
- 14,742
Literally because it goes backwards too.
Take the 40 ton scene, sure you could use it to get 10000000000000 ton MUI Goku. But you'd also get like 0.0000001kg Freeza.
And even if you ignore that, DBZ has way to many cases of lifting feats where they struggle to where when you work backwards, you get like 0.00001kg Cell or like 100000 ton dudes who cant even lift 10.
For example, Goku failing to catch the mountain Freeza yeeted at him. That is a cap for LS at that time, if you use multipliers backward you'd get ludicrously low LS prior to that point. This goes for later stuff too, where the backward multipliers contradict established caps. Or like, if we take an earlier feat, multiply it, you'd get like Class Z freeza saga Goku all while having a billion stated and shown anti-feats. And that applies to EVERY starting point, whether it's Goku moving a rock in DB, or lifting Piccolo, etc, it eventually spirals out of control and becomes hard contradicted both above AND below the starting point.
It's just not feasible imo, speed and power get away with it but LS guts itself.
But that's just my opinion.
- 6,970
- 9,679
I think I understand what you're saying: basically, Dragon Ball is very inconsistent and contractionary when it comes to its lifting strength showings that any ranking you could place them at would be too high or too low.
Is that what you're saying? Because I want to make sure I'm following this train of thought properly.
- 16,697
- 14,742
Close enough..you could get anything from Class Z or sub-human depending where you pick and choose to start slapping multipliers on. And it's always gonna lead to super straightup wrong values for some characters.
- 6,970
- 9,679
I see, thanks for clarifying your argument in a way that I could understand.
But is there no solid ground you can start off in Dragon Ball to start applying multipliers to its LS or are we always going to get messy values regardless of where you start and end? I would've figured there'd at least be one specific arc where we could apply LS multipliers without it becoming a mess.
- 16,697
- 14,742
Unrelated but i think i just had a Class P epiphany for canon, albeit for Buu saga.
There's so many multipliers that no matter WHERE you start, even in DB, youd get like sub-human characters.
The later you start, the more wild it gets to where say, you start with Class T Buu Saga, you hit like barely human Namek Saga. Or like you take start to early, and you end up ruining it because you exceed hard caps like Goku failing to lift that mountain and it becomes an outlier.
And no matter when or where you begin, it will always end with some characters being scaled way beyond caps, and characters scaled way below what they are. And obviously you cant just pick a time, you need to start off a feat which limits when and where you can start the meme.
Kind of the problem when working with multipliers in the billions, trillions, hell even stupid values like septillions come Super.
No, ive already checked some before, every time without fail..
There's so many multipliers that no matter WHERE you start, even in DB, youd get like sub-human characters.
The later you start, the more wild it gets to where say, you start with Class T Buu Saga, you hit like barely human Namek Saga. Or like you take start to early, and you end up ruining it because you exceed hard caps like Goku failing to lift that mountain and it becomes an outlier.
And no matter when or where you begin, it will always end with some characters being scaled way beyond caps, and characters scaled way below what they are. And obviously you cant just pick a time, you need to start off a feat which limits when and where you can start the meme.
Kind of the problem when working with multipliers in the billions, trillions, hell even stupid values like septillions come Super.
- 2,656
- 1,771
There's a scene in the Toei anime where Goku can't lift an apple in King Kai's planet, implying he can't lift 10 apples.
So it seems that not even the creators actually know how to manage LS lmao.
- 3,165
- 2,442
Nah it was just a really heavy apple.
- 6,970
- 9,679
Speaking of LS in Super, isn't there a feat in the anime where Goku and Vegeta are given suits by Whis that are so heavy that they sink into the ground of Beerus' planet when Goku and Vegeta take them off? I'm no expert when it comes to LS values, but I'm curious to know if that could yield any results
- 3,346
- 4,640
We are in a shitty situation with LS. Objectively multipliers affect LS but the results would be so inconsistent we have to ignore them
- 13,260
- 2,845
Look back 3 pages in the other DBS thread
- 3,165
- 2,442
Thanks
- 16,697
- 14,742
For the hand feat, what do we "need" for it to be worthwhile. The actual hand itself is decent, and fma would probably buff it, but at what point does it become "useful".
- 1,027
- 151
This episode gives us IMPORTANT INFORMATION for power scaling:
1) It's crazy to think the Megath kid and his dog unironically deserve a profile on our site. The Megath dog is unaffected by simple kikoha attacks from Daima base Goku, daima base Vegeta and Daima Piccolo. Daima base Goku could push it back only thanks to a kamehameha. The Megath kid and his dog were able to keep up with their speed. In terms of height, Daima base Goku is barely taller than a tick/flea that's on the dog. Flea are 1 to 3 mm and ticks are 0.5 mm to 15 mm. If we assume the ticks were 5 mm, and if everything is proportioned just like in our world. that's as if Goku was 1cm compared to humans who generally are 5 to 7 ft tall. Goku was so impressed by the Megath kid that he asked why people from that race aren't the supreme kings of the Makai to wich Neva replies by saying they are not interested by that position and by politics and that megath normally do not communicate with other races. Which means Neva validates Goku saying megath are stronger than current and past supreme king. meaning that megath kid we saw most likely scales above the likes of Dabura. Also, the megath can casually defeat and eat krakens from the 2nd makai world.
2) we know the 2nd world from the makai is supposed to be smaller than the 3rd makai (since it's the biggest world), yet, it has multiple planets, some of them being populated by intelligent civilizations. Also, considering the megath kid is so big it makes their ship look like a fly, megaths are as big as small moutains meaning the planet they live on (that has towns with buildings like schools and stores (in which they sell at least kraken meal) as stated by Neva) necessarily is hundreds to thousands of times bigger (in diameter) than planets like the Earth (making their planet at least as big as a small star). Neva states the planet of Megath is the second most dangerous planet in the makai which means there is a full list of other hostile planets.
Also, Vegeta was freaked out by the megath kid and asks what the most dangerous planet is (since the Neva said the planet of megaths is the 2nd msot dangerous one) and Neva replies this is the planet of Gigath, a race even bigger than megaths. Considering the name, they might be 1000 times bigger than megaths and if that's the case, it means their planet is as big as a supergiant red star. It also (if they really are that big) means there is an entire race of beings who are billions of time heavier and stronger than megaths. and therefore, beings who are billions of tiem stronger than Cell or Dabura. I like to imagine that if the megath kid was on the planet of gigath, he'd end up in the same situation daima Goku was and would be barely taller than parasitic insects.
Anyway, this solidifes the 2nd world of makai (and most likely all other words especially the 3rd one) as being at the very least multi solar system to galactic in size.
1) It's crazy to think the Megath kid and his dog unironically deserve a profile on our site. The Megath dog is unaffected by simple kikoha attacks from Daima base Goku, daima base Vegeta and Daima Piccolo. Daima base Goku could push it back only thanks to a kamehameha. The Megath kid and his dog were able to keep up with their speed. In terms of height, Daima base Goku is barely taller than a tick/flea that's on the dog. Flea are 1 to 3 mm and ticks are 0.5 mm to 15 mm. If we assume the ticks were 5 mm, and if everything is proportioned just like in our world. that's as if Goku was 1cm compared to humans who generally are 5 to 7 ft tall. Goku was so impressed by the Megath kid that he asked why people from that race aren't the supreme kings of the Makai to wich Neva replies by saying they are not interested by that position and by politics and that megath normally do not communicate with other races. Which means Neva validates Goku saying megath are stronger than current and past supreme king. meaning that megath kid we saw most likely scales above the likes of Dabura. Also, the megath can casually defeat and eat krakens from the 2nd makai world.
2) we know the 2nd world from the makai is supposed to be smaller than the 3rd makai (since it's the biggest world), yet, it has multiple planets, some of them being populated by intelligent civilizations. Also, considering the megath kid is so big it makes their ship look like a fly, megaths are as big as small moutains meaning the planet they live on (that has towns with buildings like schools and stores (in which they sell at least kraken meal) as stated by Neva) necessarily is hundreds to thousands of times bigger (in diameter) than planets like the Earth (making their planet at least as big as a small star). Neva states the planet of Megath is the second most dangerous planet in the makai which means there is a full list of other hostile planets.
Also, Vegeta was freaked out by the megath kid and asks what the most dangerous planet is (since the Neva said the planet of megaths is the 2nd msot dangerous one) and Neva replies this is the planet of Gigath, a race even bigger than megaths. Considering the name, they might be 1000 times bigger than megaths and if that's the case, it means their planet is as big as a supergiant red star. It also (if they really are that big) means there is an entire race of beings who are billions of time heavier and stronger than megaths. and therefore, beings who are billions of tiem stronger than Cell or Dabura. I like to imagine that if the megath kid was on the planet of gigath, he'd end up in the same situation daima Goku was and would be barely taller than parasitic insects.
Anyway, this solidifes the 2nd world of makai (and most likely all other words especially the 3rd one) as being at the very least multi solar system to galactic in size.
- 231
- 45
- 806
- 690
Ngl People also told that You also seethe when something that isn't Sonic gets wanked
- 367
- 571
Bowser fodder
Similar threads
- Locked
