High School DxD Universe Discussion Thread

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Damn, I can't believe a perverted "trash ass light novel series" is so DED over here! DED! YOU HEAR ME!?!?!?!?!?! HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!! xD

Anywho, reviving this again as in spite of how ded it is (the actual series is kinda is back with a spin off, if not written by Ishi but supervised as noted here above already).

This series needs to get updated or looked at more closely.

The first of which is the issue that's been brought up in this matchup of Issei's where Boosted Gear's boost effects of doubling is being brought into question again, or rather people stone walling TFO out of it doing what it's been stated to do which is doubling the user's power for every boost. From what I can see, and unless there WAS an actual discussion being told about this, Boosted Gear's doubling effect has been an issue as it both doesn't line up with the result that it should allow the user (Issei, in this prominent case as he is its current wielder in the story) and also of the statements made whenever destructive feats and the like happen with those boosts whether Issei uses them or he gives it to others,

Right now, I'm working on getting that out of the way or actually addressing the problem on both sides with a draft I'm working on here. What I mean is I will present the boosts statement of being able to double (that and it being a multiplier as it's stated) as well as embolding the statements of feats that happen in relation to them (as in, what really happens when Issei does something destructive or otherwise after receiving those boosts).

The same will be said for Vali later on as while he doesn't have a note about his halving stuff, he should be of the same boat on Issei because he does do what it does which is reducing powers and whatnot by half their potency yet the statements of which when he does things with Divide Dividing don't quite line up as much on what it's supposed to be stated to do down the line...if that makes sense.

Anywho who sees this and understands what I'll do, just be patient with it until I can get a CRT to get this issue resolved once and for all because his note on the profile is just ass tbqh. It's not wrong, it's not just exactly told why the multipliers aren't accepted...

Hm, I don't know if there's much that can be done. It was agreed that it shouldn't be used for stats at least.

I would say this problem arises because Ishibumi only planned to make five or six volumes for the novel and it got much more popular than he anticipated. As a result, Boosted Gear was more effective in the early volumes. Nowadays, it doesn't seem as effective although it's still stated to double in volume 25 (Ddraig vs Typhon).

The most straightforward example would be when Vali used Divide on Issei; Issei says his power was cut in half and he recovers the halved power with one Boost, as well as Issei increasing Rias power to a step below Maou-class with a couple of Boosts. These are examples of when Boost was shown to be quite effective.

If we disregarded that, it would be the same as saying Divine Dividing doesn't halve space or halve the size of other things, although it is blatantly shown to do so. Divine Dividing has no multiplier issues though, it's always said/shown to halve things and was repeated in Shin DxD 4 and Slash Dog. Vali doesn't use Divide against characters even weaker than him now because Ishibumi nerfs him, the same way he nerfs Boosted Gear sometimes.

Also, I want to add that Vali has used it against others stronger than him. He used it against JD Issei and BxB Tobio (first volume of SD) when he was weaker than them. He did say it doesn't activate against god-class beings...which is weird, cause you know, Albion used it on Ddraig. So that's another inconsistency.

But the truth is that the author doesn't care about Boost multipliers and I don't think we should, either. It's whatever, I don't think it's meant to be consistent. It would be too much headcanon to go and put on the profiles that they don't double and halve, though, as it goes against the lore/narrative especially since weaker stuff like Twice Critical is stated to double as well. Just say the effects are inconsistent in series, and that's exactly why it's sketchy to use to rate their tiers.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MasqueTLDF/DxD_Cosmology Cosmology Blog CRT https://vsbattles.com/threads/dxd-2-a-cosmology-upgrade-crt.169142/

So, what exactly is the aim with this? The cosmology has parallel worlds, sure, but I would hope it isn't meant to upgrade anyone to 2-A? No one can affect or destroy all the parallel worlds at once, after all.

I can't look at everything at once. But of course, every other world should have their own Dimensional Gap based on Shin DxD 4.

The highest possible interpretation I can guess from this blog would be the Dimensional Gap being, uh, infinite in size? Based on Cao Cao's volume 9 statement and your anime scans at least.

So, this could be a case similar to Bleach's cosmology. Great Red maintains the boundary between the realms (Dimensional Gap), which balances and stabilizes the worlds. Without that, it's thought that there would be negative consequences for the world. According to Sirzechs (?) in volume 6, Ophis or Great Red can break down/manipulate the Dimensional Gap to cause world-scale problems. I believe Issei implies that something bad would happen with the Dimensional Gap if Great Red were to die. So it appears that Great Red (formerly Ophis) is the linchpin for Draconic Deus.

I can't see anything that could possibly warrant 2-A for any character (just saying, not certain if that's what you're planning).

Although I'm at the point where I'm not going to get involved with power scaling anymore, so I'll leave it to others to handle.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Damn, I can't believe a perverted "trash ass light novel series" is so DED over here! DED! YOU HEAR ME!?!?!?!?!?! HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!! xD

Anywho, reviving this again as in spite of how ded it is (the actual series is kinda is back with a spin off, if not written by Ishi but supervised as noted here above already).

This series needs to get updated or looked at more closely.

The first of which is the issue that's been brought up in this matchup of Issei's where Boosted Gear's boost effects of doubling is being brought into question again, or rather people stone walling TFO out of it doing what it's been stated to do which is doubling the user's power for every boost. From what I can see, and unless there WAS an actual discussion being told about this, Boosted Gear's doubling effect has been an issue as it both doesn't line up with the result that it should allow the user (Issei, in this prominent case as he is its current wielder in the story) and also of the statements made whenever destructive feats and the like happen with those boosts whether Issei uses them or he gives it to others,

Right now, I'm working on getting that out of the way or actually addressing the problem on both sides with a draft I'm working on here. What I mean is I will present the boosts statement of being able to double (that and it being a multiplier as it's stated) as well as embolding the statements of feats that happen in relation to them (as in, what really happens when Issei does something destructive or otherwise after receiving those boosts).

The same will be said for Vali later on as while he doesn't have a note about his halving stuff, he should be of the same boat on Issei because he does do what it does which is reducing powers and whatnot by half their potency yet the statements of which when he does things with Divide Dividing don't quite line up as much on what it's supposed to be stated to do down the line...if that makes sense.

Anywho who sees this and understands what I'll do, just be patient with it until I can get a CRT to get this issue resolved once and for all because his note on the profile is just ass tbqh. It's not wrong, it's not just exactly told why the multipliers aren't accepted...

I think another thing worth looking into, is how aura can suppress hax from weaker characters. I wanted to make several blogs before I just lost interest in this.

There are several resistances that I think the races could have. For example, we've seen that demonic energy can suppress poison, so devils should have some resilience to that. Or, the fact that the special curse an evil spirit placed on one of Sona's servants (forgot who it was) ceased to be effective as soon as she was reincarnated as a devil. So, that implies a general resilience to curses. Or, the fact that Ingvild's demonic energy could suppress Nyx's brainwashing spell. Or, the side story with the CxC cafe (forgot the name) where Issei explains that the supernatural beings could see through an illusion meant to deceive humans, which suggests a basic resistance to illusions. Also, there's a scene where Vali and his team could ignore the youkai mist that damages the mind.

More recent stuff is Issei resisting Unai's possession control over his body, Issei's AxA and Ophis resisting Tartarus' Abyss suction/absorption/gravity manipulation, or Zekka being unable to permanently steal Rias' power or shrink her breasts. I would have made a profile for Zekka if I still had much interest in this hobby. >_>

But yeah, there's still several ways the profiles can be tweaked or updated.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Looks Great, thank you for your work.

So, what exactly is the aim with this? The cosmology has parallel worlds, sure, but I would hope it isn't meant to upgrade anyone to 2-A? No one can affect or destroy all the parallel worlds at once, after all.

I can't look at everything at once. But of course, every other world should have their own Dimensional Gap based on Shin DxD 4.

The highest possible interpretation I can guess from this blog would be the Dimensional Gap being, uh, infinite in size? Based on Cao Cao's volume 9 statement and your anime scans at least.

So, this could be a case similar to Bleach's cosmology. Great Red maintains the boundary between the realms (Dimensional Gap), which balances and stabilizes the worlds. Without that, it's thought that there would be negative consequences for the world. According to Sirzechs (?) in volume 6, Ophis or Great Red can break down/manipulate the Dimensional Gap to cause world-scale problems. I believe Issei implies that something bad would happen with the Dimensional Gap if Great Red were to die. So it appears that Great Red (formerly Ophis) is the linchpin for Draconic Deus.

I can't see anything that could possibly warrant 2-A for any character (just saying, not certain if that's what you're planning).

Although I'm at the point where I'm not going to get involved with power scaling anymore, so I'll leave it to others to handle.

Right now, just to add a cosmology section to the verse's page as easy reference for other's to use. If I'm able to get that approved then I'll use it for scaling.
My interpretation of the Dimensional Gap's size is 2-A because it's stated to be infinite in size and is able to contain multitude of smaller infinities within it. quote from my blog "Stated numerous times to be infinite in size in comparison to smaller locations like the infinitely sized Isolation Barrier and Heavens."
The only characters that would get to 2-A would be possibly Ophis, Great Red, and everyone above Great Red. Some characters from the Anime as well if I can ever make profiles for them.
High 3-A-Low 2-C ratings would go to Heavenly Dragon Class fighters and above
I actually got the opposite impression from Shin 4, I think it's more likely that the Evies just had no previous knowledge of the Dimensional Gap, or at least not of the area within it that surrounds DxD. The "Earth's Dimensional Gap" statement more likely refers to allegiance rather than a whole separate location. As Great Red who was allied with the Earth Gods ruled over it at the time.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Edit: I double posted for some reason. The Lag on this PLATFORM IS REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was just gonna ask wtf I got pinged twice for lol.

Now I know xD

NUMBAH WAN

Ah, the whole reason was cuz of this matchup that I probably linked already or not.

Ah, noice. Another example of double. Was wondering if Ishi didn't forget that.

Yeah, that's what I more or less thought too. Perhaps back in the early volumes they were more effective like Ise going from being a non-threat to Raynare to just OHKO her (not kill her ofc, but knocking her out for a time), the mountain hole punch through feat (a dragon shot tho, but still), and the other stuff you said.

True, which is why Vali doesn't have a note unlike Issei. And that is a strange note considering Vali couldn't do it on Loki, and while Loki in the LN so strong not even two HD users could fight him, he's not exactly up there in the top tiers I feel like either...well that or I just don't see enough of him being particularly OP but he can fight Issei and Vali who both at least mastered/properly can use BxB mode. Also the Vali thing to use against superior foes is true, since iirc in Vol 6 he was only in BxB when Issei went JD mode. DK about Tobio one but I'll check that one out to make sure.

And yeah, true...

At this point I'm kinda burned out on having to explain a whole bunch of stuff, but the least I'd want to try is just maybe update Issei's profile on his note with the Boost's double multiplier effect. Maybe have it pointed out that while it was stated to double, it's just inconsistent as you put it. Do it like some of the JJK profiles with their Black Flash tech that amps their attack by ^2.5 or something.

And if I had to go more, I'd probably just say that Issei's boosts amps his power and whatnot in the P&A cuz having that said it doubles his power only for a note to say it's not applicable is just kinda confusing to everyone else if not polarizing.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Right now, just to add a cosmology section to the verse's page as easy reference for other's to use. If I'm able to get that approved then I'll use it for scaling.
My interpretation of the Dimensional Gap's size is 2-A because it's stated to be infinite in size and is able to contain multitude of smaller infinities within it. quote from my blog "Stated numerous times to be infinite in size in comparison to smaller locations like the infinitely sized Isolation Barrier and Heavens."
The only characters that would get to 2-A would be possibly Ophis, Great Red, and everyone above Great Red. Some characters from the Anime as well if I can ever make profiles for them.
High 3-A-Low 2-C ratings would go to Heavenly Dragon Class fighters and above
I actually got the opposite impression from Shin 4, I think it's more likely that the Evies just had no previous knowledge of the Dimensional Gap, or at least not of the area within it that surrounds DxD. The "Earth's Dimensional Gap" statement more likely refers to allegiance rather than a whole separate location. As Great Red who was allied with the Earth Gods ruled over it at the time.

Sorry to inconvenience you, but can you show me where it says the Dimensional Gap contains those locations? It's the boundary that separates and regulates the realms, not that it contains them. One of the highlights of the Dimensional Gap is that nothing is supposed to exist there. Am I misunderstanding something?

Second Heaven is said to contain stars. Third Heaven is said to be big enough that no one knows where its end is. I don't know if that's enough to say Heaven is infinite in size. Muken in Bleach has a similar statement as Third Heaven, and to my knowledge (I've been out of the loop for years now so idk), it's not treated as infinite although I can see the verse is rated universe level now. To err on the side of caution, as we should do when something is not explicitly stated, I would opine that Heaven is probably big enough to contain stars on the second level and nothing more.

But okay, now I see that aim is to scale the Dragon Gods based on the Dimensional Gap. I'm curious, what's the rationale behind your Heavenly Dragon scaling? They've got nothing to do with the cosmology.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Edit: I double posted for some reason. The Lag on this PLATFORM IS REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was just gonna ask wtf I got pinged twice for lol.

Now I know xD


Ah, the whole reason was cuz of this matchup that I probably linked already or not.

Ah, noice. Another example of double. Was wondering if Ishi didn't forget that.

Yeah, that's what I more or less thought too. Perhaps back in the early volumes they were more effective like Ise going from being a non-threat to Raynare to just OHKO her (not kill her ofc, but knocking her out for a time), the mountain hole punch through feat (a dragon shot tho, but still), and the other stuff you said.

True, which is why Vali doesn't have a note unlike Issei. And that is a strange note considering Vali couldn't do it on Loki, and while Loki in the LN so strong not even two HD users could fight him, he's not exactly up there in the top tiers I feel like either...well that or I just don't see enough of him being particularly OP but he can fight Issei and Vali who both at least mastered/properly can use BxB mode. Also the Vali thing to use against superior foes is true, since iirc in Vol 6 he was only in BxB when Issei went JD mode. DK about Tobio one but I'll check that one out to make sure.

And yeah, true...

At this point I'm kinda burned out on having to explain a whole bunch of stuff, but the least I'd want to try is just maybe update Issei's profile on his note with the Boost's double multiplier effect. Maybe have it pointed out that while it was stated to double, it's just inconsistent as you put it. Do it like some of the JJK profiles with their Black Flash tech that amps their attack by ^2.5 or something.

And if I had to go more, I'd probably just say that Issei's boosts amps his power and whatnot in the P&A cuz having that said it doubles his power only for a note to say it's not applicable is just kinda confusing to everyone else if not polarizing.

Yes, the Raynare fight is a perfect example of how it was meant to double power. There's also the fact that Vali could reduce Kokabiel's power to the level of a middle-class fallen angel.

Stuff like this makes it easy to see why Ishibumi nerfs Issei and Vali depending on plot.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Sorry to inconvenience you, but can you show me where it says the Dimensional Gap contains those locations? It's the boundary that separates and regulates the realms, not that it contains them. One of the highlights of the Dimensional Gap is that nothing is supposed to exist there. Am I misunderstanding something?

Second Heaven is said to contain stars. Third Heaven is said to be big enough that no one knows where its end is. I don't know if that's enough to say Heaven is infinite in size. Muken in Bleach has a similar statement as Third Heaven, and to my knowledge (I've been out of the loop for years now so idk), it's not treated as infinite although I can see the verse is rated universe level now. To err on the side of caution, as we should do when something is not explicitly stated, I would opine that Heaven is probably big enough to contain stars on the second level and nothing more.

But okay, now I see that aim is to scale the Dragon Gods based on the Dimensional Gap. I'm curious, what's the rationale behind your Heavenly Dragon scaling? They've got nothing to do with the cosmology.

If we can agree that the relationship between the Dimensional Gap and the various mythological worlds is the same for each of these worlds (there's no reason to assume otherwise), then the statement of it "surrounding the underworld" should apply to the various heavens and mythological realms as well. Also the statement of it being located in (Every part of the world) and DxD being destroyed if something were to happen to it all support the statement.

I'm not just assuming Heaven is infinite in size, The second heaven is stated to be endless (Which means the same thing), the third heaven has a similar statement and is said to be even larger. Also Cao Cao's statement from Volume 11.

The Human Realm section of my blog explains my reasoning for why the destruction of Earth would be at least High 3-A, I'll make a blog later with my scaling for each class and my reasoning but God creating Heaven and the Human Realm, Ddraig scaling above him and being stated to be able to destroy the world multiple times over with brute force, Issei being stated to be able to destroy mythological systems (I outlined the size of them previously), and Ruma Idra stating he would erase a timeline with his attack (very detailed with the description of the statement). All of these characters being around a similar level of strength.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

If we can agree that the relationship between the Dimensional Gap and the various mythological worlds is the same for each of these worlds (there's no reason to assume otherwise), then the statement of it "surrounding the underworld" should apply to the various heavens and mythological realms as well. Also the statement of it being located in (Every part of the world) and DxD being destroyed if something were to happen to it all support the statement.

I'm not just assuming Heaven is infinite in size, The second heaven is stated to be endless (Which means the same thing), the third heaven has a similar statement and is said to be even larger. Also Cao Cao's statement from Volume 11.

The Human Realm section of my blog explains my reasoning for why the destruction of Earth would be at least High 3-A, I'll make a blog later with my scaling for each class and my reasoning but God creating Heaven and the Human Realm, Ddraig scaling above him and being stated to be able to destroy the world multiple times over with brute force, Issei being stated to be able to destroy mythological systems (I outlined the size of them previously), and Ruma Idra stating he would erase a timeline with his attack (very detailed with the description of the statement). All of these characters being around a similar level of strength.

Supposedly, the barrier field Georg made in volume 9 was both infinitely close and infinitesimally far in the Dimensional Gap. That would imply that the Dimensional Gap doesn't have a concept of distance, which I believe was stated in BorN? It's been ages since I watched that. Well, it's true that the Dimensional Gap exists around every world. I think Sirzechs said that. And sure, Dimensional Gap has the strongest argument so far. It's explicitly stated that Great Red and Ophis maintain/stabilize it and can manipulate it.

Okay, that would depend on how others view it. Personally, I don't place much stock in "endless" statements, as they could simply be a figure of speech. I would say the most I can agree with, is that Heaven is probably big enough to contain stars based on the statement from Volume 18. My personal opinion is that none of the realms are universal sized (I'm not counting the Dimensional Gap, which is weird and probably the most concrete argument for "infinite" size), but planet sized to multi-star sized at max.

As for the last paragraph, I already said won't get involved with the tiers anymore but I have some disagreements with the scaling

- Ddraig himself said Ophis is the only existence God couldn't take on carelessly. I know God's strength is always controversial in the fanbase, but everything we've been hearing so far implies God was quite strong for a top tier. Now, recently in Junior High School DxD, Tensei and Shusei (implied to be Adam and Eve) are strong enough that they would empower Zekka enough to face a Heavenly Dragon. I can't possibly think that God is weaker than so many of his creations. His hatred alone empowered Samael enough to kill a Dragon God. What I'm saying is, God should be stronger than Ddraig and Albion. It's likely that he was around the level of Shiva, in my opinion. Sure, he died in the Great War but we don't know the circumstances. He could have been weakened by extenuating factors, such as sealing Trihexa. It's all vague.

- About the human world, it's not certain if God created it. Adam and Eve exist, so that would imply God created humanity. The issue is, other mythologies exist so it's tough to say whether God created everything. This is especially because Tobio's Balance Breaker chant suggests the existence of multiple Creator Gods. So, I'd say Heaven is most likely, but not the human world.

- I don't remember when Issei was stated to do that.

- Ruma Idra was going to destroy the timeline by destroying past events, which is hax. Now, think about it... Ruma Idra is an Invade Fanatic, which is ultimate-class to Satan-class according to Shin 4. Maou aren't close to being that strong.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Out of curiosity, what other revisions do you people have planned, outside of the cosmology and Boosted Gear blogs?

 

[Vietthai96]

Damn, long time no see @Burning_Full_Fingers

Anyway unfortunately i'm occupying with different issue so can't evaluate the thread.

But there is no such statement that God of the Bible created everything, and Dimensional Gap is.....stated to be the gap between dimension, world, literally. And i don't remember anything about Great Red can manipulate Dimensional Gap, he just exist there to guard the gap between dimension, prevent invaders from invading Draconic Deus world which is Earth

Having stars doesn't mean much, you need to prove those are actual stars, and see no end to something is just a flowery way to hype something that is big

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Damn, long time no see @Burning_Full_Fingers

Anyway unfortunately i'm occupying with different issue so can't evaluate the thread.

But there is no such statement that God of the Bible created everything, and Dimensional Gap is.....stated to be the gap between dimension, world, literally. And i don't remember anything about Great Red can manipulate Dimensional Gap, he just exist there to guard the gap between dimension, prevent invaders from invading Draconic Deus world which is Earth

Having stars doesn't mean much, you need to prove those are actual stars, and see no end to something is just a flowery way to hype something that is big

Yeah, I haven't been here in 4 years or so.

I checked the Volume 6 chapter again. The statement is that Great Red is responsible for stabilizing the Dimensional Gap, keeping the realms balanced in equilibrium with one another. I thought Sirzechs also said Ophis can manipulate the Dimensional Gap. But what he said is that if Ophis were to take control over the Dimensional Gap, it could mean negative consequences for the world. He says they can't trust the current Ophis with the Dimensional Gap, so I assumed that to mean Ophis or Great Red could mess with the Dimensional Gap if they wanted. Issei then says something about a breakdown in the stability of the worlds. The quote is in the blog linked in the previous page. If I remember correctly, the fan translation says something similar.

From volume 16, I remember Issei saying something bad would happen with the Dimensional Gap if Great Red were to die, which I think is assuming no one else is there to take over the Dimensional Gap if Great Red is gone. This was when Rizevim revealed his plan to use Trihexa to kill Great Red and travel to another world.

So, it depends on how you want to treat the Dimensional Gap stuff. I don't remember the wiki's standards on stability feats.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

We might also learn more about God and Heaven in Junior High School DxD, since Adam and Eve are likely sealed within Eden's Dual.

 

[Vietthai96]

I think the context is mean that they guarding the place to make it not devolve into chaos, rather than actually, you know, doing something to the stucture itself, but well, people could think it the other way

 

[Vietthai96]

We might also learn more about God and Heaven in Junior High School DxD, since Adam and Eve are likely sealed within Eden's Dual.

I still want they expand more on other mythology, the Three Factions and Dragon side get too much attentions

 

[MasqueTLDF]

If we can agree that the relationship between the Dimensional Gap and the various mythological worlds is the same for each of these worlds (there's no reason to assume otherwise), then the statement of it "surrounding the underworld" should apply to the various heavens and mythological realms as well. Also the statement of it being located in (Every part of the world) and DxD being destroyed if something were to happen to it all support the statement.

I'm not just assuming Heaven is infinite in size, The second heaven is stated to be endless (Which means the same thing), the third heaven has a similar statement and is said to be even larger. Also Cao Cao's statement from Volume 11.

The Human Realm section of my blog explains my reasoning for why the destruction of Earth would be at least High 3-A, I'll make a blog later with my scaling for each class and my reasoning but God creating Heaven and the Human Realm, Ddraig scaling above him and being stated to be able to destroy the world multiple times over with brute force, Issei being stated to be able to destroy mythological systems (I outlined the size of them previously), and Ruma Idra stating he would erase a timeline with his attack (very detailed with the description of the statement). All of these characters being around a similar level of strength.

Supposedly, the barrier field Georg made in volume 9 was both infinitely close and infinitesimally far in the Dimensional Gap. That would imply that the Dimensional Gap doesn't have a concept of distance, which I believe was stated in BorN? It's been ages since I watched that. Well, it's true that the Dimensional Gap exists around every world. I think Sirzechs said that. And sure, Dimensional Gap has the strongest argument so far. It's explicitly stated that Great Red and Ophis maintain/stabilize it and can manipulate it.

Okay, that would depend on how others view it. Personally, I don't place much stock in "endless" statements, as they could simply be a figure of speech. I would say the most I can agree with, is that Heaven is probably big enough to contain stars based on the statement from Volume 18. My personal opinion is that none of the realms are universal sized (I'm not counting the Dimensional Gap, which is weird and probably the most concrete argument for "infinite" size), but planet sized to multi-star sized at max.

As for the last paragraph, I already said won't get involved with the tiers anymore but I have some disagreements with the scaling

- Ddraig himself said Ophis is the only existence God couldn't take on carelessly. I know God's strength is always controversial in the fanbase, but everything we've been hearing so far implies God was quite strong for a top tier. Now, recently in Junior High School DxD, Tensei and Shusei (implied to be Adam and Eve) are strong enough that they would empower Zekka enough to face a Heavenly Dragon. I can't possibly think that God is weaker than so many of his creations. His hatred alone empowered Samael enough to kill a Dragon God. What I'm saying is, God should be stronger than Ddraig and Albion. It's likely that he was around the level of Shiva, in my opinion. Sure, he died in the Great War but we don't know the circumstances. He could have been weakened by extenuating factors, such as sealing Trihexa. It's all vague.

- About the human world, it's not certain if God created it. Adam and Eve exist, so that would imply God created humanity. The issue is, other mythologies exist so it's tough to say whether God created everything. This is especially because Tobio's Balance Breaker chant suggests the existence of multiple Creator Gods. So, I'd say Heaven is most likely, but not the human world.

- I don't remember when Issei was stated to do that.

- Ruma Idra was going to destroy the timeline by destroying past events, which is hax. Now, think about it... Ruma Idra is an Invade Fanatic, which is ultimate-class to Satan-class according to Shin 4. Maou aren't close to being that strong.

Stated in the dub of BorN, sub just says "Therefore, there is no distance or direction" and the characters can't tell left from right and up from down.

If Endless statements aren't enough then how can any verse's cosmology get to High 3-A?

Trihexa exists so obviously that statement of Ophis being the only one God was scared of kinda doesn't apply. Volume 3 "But during the Great War between the three powers, there were two stupid dragons that started a fight. And those two were in the highest class of dragons and they had a power that rivalled that of God and the Maou", ""[No idea. It's like they weren't interested in anything at all. The two dragons probably can’t remember the reason why they started to fight. And for the first time, the leaders of the three powers joined hands. “We have to get rid of those two dragons, or else it’s not a matter of war any more!” Like that.] ……The groups who are enemies forming an alliance. And the reason for that is a fight between dragons. It seems complicated. [The two dragons that got their fight interrupted became mad. [Don’t get in the way of our fight!], [A mere God and Maou shouldn’t be interrupting a duel between dragons!] - they responded like idiots. They went head on and tried to eat God, Maou, and the leaders of the fallen-angels. Well, that was a mistake, I guess.]", Volume 18 "“Son of Lucifer. You think you’re his enemy? Even God of the Bible hated the embodiment of power — dragons. Whether it’s me, or the Hakuryuukou, or Fafnir, you can’t underestimate us — We could if we wanted, to have destroyed the world a few times over with just brute force. But I haven’t done so, because compared to you, my life is more enjoyable like this.”" I guess a fair argument to make would be that it only applies to the version of God that was weakened after sealing Trihexa which would make sense but the destroying the world statements still apply.

God created all sacred gears and likely had the ability to use some of them at some point. He'd have the means to create the human realm (Innovate Clear and Telos Karma) and since sacred gears possess memories of previous users (and the Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing existed before Ddraig and Albion were sealed within them) it can be adequately reasoned that Issei's statement from Volume 5 after making a significant progression with his sacred gear of seeing the origins of the universe should be taken literally.

Shin Volume 3

Wouldn't destruction of a timeline mean destroying past, present, and future of a space? Sure, but even that would be at least Universal as the Human Realm still existed in the past. "If compared to the Earth’s powerful beings, the [Keito Tenkai]’s strength was Great Red-class, and their Primes [Atrocity Fanatics] ranged from Chief Gods of each mythology to Maou-class. As for the strength of [Ragou Shichou], the strongest one had a power exceeding Great Red, and the lower-ranked ones were Chief God-class. Their Primes [Invade Fanatics]’s strength ranged from Maou-class to Dragon King-class. And the Three Evil Gods of [Evie Etoulde], including Invincible Devastator Regalzeva, were far more powerful than that." Fafnir being a Dragon King and having the same statement of Ddraig and Albion of being able to destroy the world.

Edit: Thank you btw, it's fun/exciting/interesting to be able to discuss DxD and its scaling with someone else that's knowledgeable about the series. Even if we don't agree on everything, it's still really nice to be able to do this, sometimes I feel like I'm the only fan of the series.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Out of curiosity, what other revisions do you people have planned, outside of the cosmology and Boosted Gear blogs?

Power system blog which I'll use for upgrading the speed tiering of the verse, basically, Angel Light+Demon Light and trying to get the characters to SoL much earlier. General AP upgrades, adding new images for different characters like Xenovia with Ex Durandal from Junior. Getting my Cosmology blog to be listed on the verse page, adding more abilities like Age manipulation to Rias' profile and removing the resistance to memory manipulation. Removing anime/manga feats from canon profiles, and creating new profiles for different characters like God, Regalzeva, Anime characters, and Zekka. AP and Speed upgrades kinda hinge on Boosts getting accepted.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Damn, long time no see @Burning_Full_Fingers

Anyway unfortunately i'm occupying with different issue so can't evaluate the thread.

But there is no such statement that God of the Bible created everything, and Dimensional Gap is.....stated to be the gap between dimension, world, literally. And i don't remember anything about Great Red can manipulate Dimensional Gap, he just exist there to guard the gap between dimension, prevent invaders from invading Draconic Deus world which is Earth

Having stars doesn't mean much, you need to prove those are actual stars, and see no end to something is just a flowery way to hype something that is big

Why would Great Red have any knowledge of ExE? The Three Factions and Ophis couldn't even fathom the idea until after Volume 7 and the Great Red stuff happened way before that. Volume 6 "[No, unfortunately that will be very hard. Right now it is thought that all the dimensional gaps located in every part of the world are balanced because Great-Red resides in it. If Great-Red was to be killed by Ophis or Vali, or if Ophis was to rule the dimensional gap we won’t know what will happen to this World. Nothing would have happened if it was Ophis in the past, but the current Ophis stayed in this world too long so she has changed a lot from the first time she appeared.] So it means a serious thing would happen if the balance of the world collapses. Then Ophis and Vali's aim are very dangerous! So that’s why leaders of each faction are having a hard time about this. Ngggh. If I was to defeat Vali in the future, I need to hope someone defeats Ophis instead. I don’t want to be the one fighting her as well!"" Alternatively "Sirzechs shook his head. “No. Unfortunately, that would be unwise. The prevailing theory at present is that the dimensional void is in equilibrium with the various planes of existence precisely because the Great Red resides within it. If Ophis—or Vali, for that matter—were to slay him and rule over it themselves, there’s no telling what would happen to our world. We might have been able to trust the old Ophis, but she’s changed too much.”"
DxD BorN: "Right now, the lines between the worlds are stable because Great Red rules the Dimensional Gap. ...If something like that were to happen... Who knows what could happen to the entire world"
Seems more like Great Red was a sort of Soul King (Bleach) for DxD with Ophis having his role before that and Regalzeva after. The Volume 16 statements seems to point toward Great Red knowing of the existence of ExE but it's only stated that he'd guard DxD from otherworldly threats, not that he himself was aware of them. And if he was aware of them, it wouldn't change the earlier statements and would make the 1 Dimenional Gap surrounding all worlds thing that I mentioned earlier true.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Burning_Full_Fingers

Probably just the Boosted Gear/Divine Dividing Issue. If not just Boosted Gear's issue.

I think one other is maybe asking why everyone has NEP by scaling off of an artificial SG that specifically has the ability to interact with ghosts or whatever, but I'm holding that off partly to make sure I even get the reason right.

For now it's just BG's issue to clear up for everyone properly + expanding on his note and adjusting his profile's PnA on Issei's boosts.

Anything else besides that and the NEP thing is beyond me, I got no comment on that one.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Burning_Full_Fingers

Probably just the Boosted Gear/Divine Dividing Issue. If not just Boosted Gear's issue.

I think one other is maybe asking why everyone has NEP by scaling off of an artificial SG that specifically has the ability to interact with ghosts or whatever, but I'm holding that off partly to make sure I even get the reason right.

For now it's just BG's issue to clear up for everyone properly + expanding on his note and adjusting his profile's PnA on Issei's boosts.

Anything else besides that and the NEP thing is beyond me, I got no comment on that one.

Azazel originally made the Sacred Gear for humans, before giving it to Sona's peerage. There's a side story where he was advertising it to normal humans to sell it, because he was strapped of cash. I can't quite remember the name, but I'm sure it exists. Everyone else can exorcise ghosts and spirits. I'll try to look for quotes of everyone handling ghosts and spirits. It's in a couple of short stories, like the one where Latia and Iryuka were introduced.

There are several resistances that I think the races could have. For example, we've seen that demonic energy can suppress poison, so devils should have some resilience to that. Or, the fact that the special curse an evil spirit placed on one of Sona's servants (forgot who it was) ceased to be effective as soon as she was reincarnated as a devil. So, that implies a general resilience to curses. Or, the fact that Ingvild's demonic energy could suppress Nyx's brainwashing spell. Or, the side story with the CxC cafe (forgot the name) where Issei explains that the supernatural beings could see through an illusion meant to deceive humans, which suggests a basic resistance to illusions. Also, there's a scene where Vali and his team could ignore the youkai mist that damages the mind.

More recent stuff is Issei resisting Unai's possession control over his body, Issei's AxA and Ophis resisting Tartarus' Abyss suction/absorption/gravity manipulation, or Zekka being unable to permanently steal Rias' power or shrink her breasts. I would have made a profile for Zekka if I still had much interest in this hobby. >_>

But yeah, there's still several ways the profiles can be tweaked or updated.

I'll also try to look for the quotes on these stuff, if I can summon up enough interest.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@MasqueTLDF

I'll just say that not all world destruction statements are meant to be taken literally because hyperboles exist. There's not much sense in Fafnir being able to destroy the world. If I'm not forgetting, one of the translators once said it was meant to refer to dragons as a race.

Ruma Idra said he was going to destroy history with his special beam, which would retcon future events. That's basically hax. More importantly, Ruma Idra is just Maou-class and no Maou is that strong.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

@MasqueTLDF

I'll just say that not all world destruction statements are meant to be taken literally because hyperboles exist. There's not much sense in Fafnir being able to destroy the world. If I'm not forgetting, one of the translators once said it was meant to refer to dragons as a race.

Ruma Idra said he was going to destroy history with his special beam, which would retcon future events. That's basically hax. More importantly, Ruma Idra is just Maou-class and no Maou is that strong.

Could you show me this translation maybe? And sure I'd agree but this one seems pretty blatant. And I think it would make sense, Fafnir with outrage is very strong, he upscales from Rizevim right? And I don't think it''s right to just say that you don't believe it when there's more evidence for than against it. Idk seems kinda biased.

Maou-Dragon King and a I've shown Dragon Kings can reach that level of power.

And do you agree with everything else I said?

 

[Ped2018]

Where do y'all read the volumes?

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Where do y'all read the volumes?

https://occult-research.club/project/index.php?title=High_School_DxD for fan translations

https://server.elscione.com/Officially Translated Light Novels/High School DxD/ for official if you don't own them, however I suggest supporting the official release.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Could you show me this translation maybe? And sure I'd agree but this one seems pretty blatant. And I think it would make sense, Fafnir with outrage is very strong, he upscales from Rizevim right? And I don't think it''s right to just say that you don't believe it when there's more evidence for than against it. Idk seems kinda biased.

Maou-Dragon King and a I've shown Dragon Kings can reach that level of power.

And do you agree with everything else I said?

It says they can destroy the world, but not how long it would take them. Timeframe is very important for these kind of statements. Along with the fact that the translation apparently could refer to dragons as a collective race, I don't think there's much substance here. As for the translation, I don't have it. I saw someone with access to the raws editing Ddraig's page on the DxD wiki a couple years back, but I'm not about to trace them for this. People on the DxD Universe discord could probably have this.

Agree:
I can agree to Heaven probably having multiple stars on the second level, since stars are mentioned there. Well, someone above (Vietthai, I think) opined that they could be fake stars although I don't know if there's a reason to assume that. I don't think Heaven is infinite in size, as I don't see the current evidence as strong enough. Earth/star sized is the maximum interpretation I can see. Like I said, personally, I am not a fan of "endless" statements.

What I don't have much problems with, is the fact that Great Red and Ophis maintain and stabilize the Dimensional Gap to balance the worlds. That alone is made obvious by the narrative, at least. I am not quite sure how it would affect their PLs though, and as I said, I am not going to get involved with stats and tiers anymore. If you want to actually get stuff done though, ask around with staff members or any other users you can find, and ask them about whatever it means. DxD doesn't have many core versus fans, especially with the long break for Shin. I remember the last major revision we had for DxD (upgrading god tiers to planet level) didn't get much traction fast, at least compared to other verses here.

Disagree:
I disagree with the Ruma Idra and Heavenly Dragon stuff. The others, I either haven't really looked at or haven't formed an opinion. For example, the quote about Underworld having a sun — what volume does it come from, Zero?

I also don't think the Biblical God should get a profile, because he's one of the vaguest characters in the novel. Might check your blog later, but these are the stuff that stand out to me so far.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

If the one's upgrades I proposed earlier aren't valid then these should at least be.
AxA Issei: High Universal: more than enough evidence to support this. (+ for similar strength characters)
Dragon Gods and above: Low Multi for feats relating to the Dimensional Gap, it upscales off of everything else cosmologically in the verse including the multiple timelines and is implied to be above time and a higher dimension.
I'll upscale the lower tiers using boost multipliers at a later date.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

It says they can destroy the world, but not how long it would take them. Timeframe is very important for these kind of statements. Along with the fact that the translation apparently could refer to dragons as a collective race, I don't think there's much substance here. As for the translation, I don't have it. I saw someone with access to the raws editing Ddraig's page on the DxD wiki a couple years back, but I'm not about to trace them for this. People on the DxD Universe discord could probably have this.

Agree:
I can agree to Heaven probably having multiple stars on the second level, since stars are mentioned there. Well, someone above (Vietthai, I think) opined that they could be fake stars although I don't know if there's a reason to assume that. I don't think Heaven is infinite in size, as I don't see the current evidence as strong enough. Earth/star sized is the maximum interpretation I can see. Like I said, personally, I am not a fan of "endless" statements.

What I don't have much problems with, is the fact that Great Red and Ophis maintain and stabilize the Dimensional Gap to balance the worlds. That alone is made obvious by the narrative, at least. I am not quite sure how it would affect their PLs though, and as I said, I am not going to get involved with stats and tiers anymore. If you want to actually get stuff done though, ask around with staff members or any other users you can find, and ask them about whatever it means. DxD doesn't have many core versus fans, especially with the long break for Shin. I remember the last major revision we had for DxD (upgrading god tiers to planet level) didn't get much traction fast, at least compared to other verses here.

Disagree:
I disagree with the Ruma Idra and Heavenly Dragon stuff. The others, I either haven't really looked at or haven't formed an opinion. For example, the quote about Underworld having a sun — what volume does it come from, Zero?

I also don't think the Biblical God should get a profile, because he's one of the vaguest characters in the novel. Might check your blog later, but these are the stuff that stand out to me so far.

Alright

I think Heaven is more around the levels of Multi Solar System as the second has multiple stars and they are described as being so far away that their light can't reach you. (Which would require at least Multi Solar System levels of distance) And the Third being larger.

By any chance, do you know anyone I could approach about this? I'm kinda new here and I'm not sure how to go about it.

Zero and Five and the starry sky is seen many times throughout the anime.

Kinda sucks, I think he's one of the most broken characters in the verse and he isn't that vague. And the creation of Heaven even if we factor in time would still be a great feat.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

By any chance, do you know anyone I could approach about this? I'm kinda new here and I'm not sure how to go about it.

I haven't been here for 4 years so obviously, I don't recognize most of the users I'm seeing. I guess you could gather your evidences for whatever you want to propose and make a structured thread. If it doesn't get attention, try bumping it.

If it still doesn't, you'd have to try messaging staff members or other members. You could also check the members listed on the verse page as knowledgeable members or supporters. Check if they are active. Or, you could try asking around on the VBW discord if you have access to it. Those are the main options.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Qliphoth_Bacikal

These are some examples that supernatural characters can deal with ghosts and spirits.

Gremory Real Estate SS:

Xenovia too said with enthusiasm.

“Holy swords are specialised in exterminating evil spirits, you know?”

Ravel also said while nodding.

“It's doubtful that there is a vengeful ghost there that can deal with several High-class Devils at the same time, but let's go.”

Since we all shared the same opinion, it was decided that we, who fought against all types of monsters and Gods, would exterminate the ghosts haunting those stigmatised properties.

---

Oh, the image of a janitor holding the Holy Spear appeared in my mind. Indeed, if it's that guy, he could clean while exterminating some evil spirits with ease.

Then, while having such a conversation, we started our evil spirit extermination + preliminary inspection of the place.

---

It was even doubtful if there existed an evil spirit that could curse the ex-Governor General of the Fallen Angels to death! He would need just a few seconds to exorcise some evil spirits. If he only released some beams of light-power from the tips of his fingers, it would be no problem.

Fantasia Heroine Calendar Book 2015 SS:

Xenovia: “Ghost stories, huh. Stories about ghosts then? Well, back when I belonged to the Church, I did help exorcise some evil spirits that had possessed believers of the faith.”

Ise: “Out of curiosity, how did you do it?”

Xenovia: “Hmm, I forced them out of the believers’ bodies and killed them with Durandal.”

Ise: “That isn’t any different than usual!”

Rias: “Speaking of which, it isn’t uncommon to receive such requests in our Devils’ Jobs.”

Kiba: “That’s true. I’ve also defeated an evil spirit.”

Ise: “Huh, that’s interesting. What kind of request was it?”

Kiba: “Well, it was fairly orthodox. When a family had just moved into an apartment, they experienced various strange phenomena in a room every night.”

---

Koneko: “…Since then, the ghost of a young woman has always appeared before those who try to live in the house, and she’s relentlessly cursed them. I received a request to exorcise that spirit. It’s hard to explain in a few words, but all of the strange phenomena that occurred in the house were quite horrific. Naturally, there were many ghastly phenomena such as a woman suddenly appearing behind people, and a lot of hair floating around in the bath.”

Ise: “…S-So what happened in the end?”

Koneko: “…I was unable to negotiate with her, and she attacked me. …Since she was problematic even for me as a Youkai, I countered with a punch and then followed with a Shining Wizard[1].”

Xenovia: “Hmm, it sounds right that even a ghost fell to Koneko’s knee.”

Ise: “No no, a professional wrestling match didn’t break out between a Nekomata and an evil spirit, right!?”

Koneko: “And I finished her off with a Brainbuster[2].”

Ise: “As expected, a physical attack totally makes sense against a ghost!”

Rias: “Devils can’t be defeated by evil spirits.”

Akeno: “Ufufu, the evil spirit that Koneko-chan met was a very glamorous woman though, right? I hear she had very large breasts.”

Now I will include the part where it seems as though supernatural beings can see through illusions that normal humans can't.

Is the Order a Devil SS:

Ehhh… The cafe was a bit more crowded than I expected. For the time being, the main way in and out of the cafe was the transportation magic circle we prepared on the top floor of this building. I also came through that magic circle, jumping from the large transportation circle in the Hyoudou family house’s basement. The top floor had a spell placed on it that made the general public avoid it, and it seemed the elevator was made to not travel to the top floor. Similarly, the staircase was covered in some sort of illusion that prevented the general public from being able to recognise the stairs leading here or see this floor in general.

So, this reminds me. They can ignore barriers that make humans unconsciously avoid certain locations and make them unable to notice them in the first place, so that would also imply a resistance to perception manipulation. However, I'd need to look through the novel to gather other similar examples.

The part about devils and curses:

The girl wielding a katana-shaped Sacred Gear stepped forward. Tomoe Meguri-chan. One of the Sitri group’s Knights. From what I had heard, she was from the Meguri clan who mainly exorcised demons as their way of life. They had been defeating demons using Holy Swords combined with their unique sword style. However, after receiving resentment from a certain demon, the Meguri clan was then cursed, and it was said that her soul had been cursed from the day she was born. Not being able to live with their cute daughter who was dying because of the curse, Tomoe Meguri-chan’s parents decided to ask a Devil to release the curse on her as a last-ditch effort. And the Devil that was called upon was Sona-kaichou... However, the only way the curse could be lifted was by getting reincarnated into a Devil. In the end, honoring her parents’ request, Kaichou made her part of her peerage. It was a good thing that the Devil who was summoned was Sona-kaichou. Even after saving Meguri-chan, she didn’t demand any other compensation apart from making her a part of the Sitri peerage from the Meguri clan. However, since one person from the clan became a Devil, Meguri-chan’s family was exiled from the exorcism business, but even then, Meguri-chan was living in this town with her parents peacefully.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Qliphoth_Bacikal

These are some examples that supernatural characters can deal with ghosts and spirits.

Gremory Real Estate SS:


Fantasia Heroine Calendar Book 2015 SS:


Now I will include the part where it seems as though supernatural beings can see through illusions that normal humans can't.

Is the Order a Devil SS:


So, this reminds me. They can ignore barriers that make humans unconsciously avoid certain locations and make them unable to notice them in the first place, so that would also imply a resistance to perception manipulation. However, I'd need to look through the novel to gather other similar examples.

The part about devils and curses:

Oh that covers it up nicely on the NEP.

Although afaik, the profiles of DxD (whatever even exists) just only list the reference to Tomue's feat but not the others.

I probably can add that to the reworking/add on later. A part of me still thinks the thing with Tomue is exclusive, but now I recall Azazel DID wanted to expand to commercial purposes and they're also just artificial SG's. Your quote with the chars on interacting with spirits included Kiba mentioning doing the same too and Rias making a comment on that, and the former DID have his SG of Sword Birth so I guess that can apply neatly.

Resistance stuff

Oh actually, this would be good for a DxD Devil's Physiology Page.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Oh actually, this would be good for a DxD Devil's Physiology Page

Hm, yeah, I guess. There's some other stuff I have to check again, like demonic energy suppressing Nyx's brainwashing spell (causing it to malfunction) and suppressing poison manipulation. As a matter of fact, the reason Issei died to Samael's poison was cited as his lack of demonic energy, whereas Vali was able to suppress it for a while because he had more demonic energy.

Then, I'll look for the quotes about supernatural beings able to ignore barriers that force humans to be unable to perceive them or unconsciously avoid certain locations, which suggests resistance to perception blocking.

Other stuff I remember for particular characters:
Vali Team:
Mind manipulation resistance (they could stay in the youkai mist that causes damage to the mind)

Issei:
Resistance to empathetic manipulation (resisted Nurarihyon's ability to force others into liking him), possession (could regain control over his body with his willpower when Unas took over)

Sirzechs & Ajuka:
Dream manipulation resistance (apophis and Azi Dahaka suggested they would be able to defend themselves in their dreams, unlike Rizevim who had no resistance)

---

Putting all these here, so I don't forget.

I'll try to look for the quotes later. Probably by the weekend, cause I'll be busy with work. Lastly, @MasqueTLDF's blog makes me realize that the Dimensional Gap should be Void Manipulation for Great Red and the others, not death manipulation.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Hm, yeah, I guess. There's some other stuff I have to check again, like demonic energy suppressing Nyx's brainwashing spell (causing it to malfunction) and suppressing poison manipulation. As a matter of fact, the reason Issei died to Samael's poison was cited as his lack of demonic energy, whereas Vali was able to suppress it for a while because he had more demonic energy
Then, I'll look for the quotes about supernatural beings able to ignore barriers that force humans to be unable to perceive them or unconsciously avoid certain locations, which suggests resistance to perception blocking.

Other stuff I remember for particular characters:
Vali Team:
Mind manipulation resistance (they could stay in the youkai mist that causes damage to the mind)

Issei:
Resistance to empathetic manipulation (resisted Nurarihyon's ability to force others into liking him), possession (could regain control over his body with his willpower when Unas took over)

Sirzechs & Ajuka:
Dream manipulation resistance (apophis and Azi Dahaka suggested they would be able to defend themselves in their dreams, unlike Rizevim who had no resistance)

---

Putting all these here, so I don't forget.

I'll try to look for the quotes later. Probably by the weekend, cause I'll be busy with work. Lastly, @MasqueTLDF's blog makes me realize that the Dimensional Gap should be Void Manipulation for Great Red and the others, not death manipulation.

Poison resistance for Issei, Volume 5 was immune to Kuroka's poison because of the Boosted Gear. (Should apply to Rias, Xenovia, and Euclid also.)

 

[Vietthai96]

According to the standard, you need to prove that Heaven contain actual, scientifically accurate star, not just "star in the sky", back then these kind of feat automatically be multi solar, but the standard got stricter cause.

And where is High 3-A come from???

 

[MasqueTLDF]

According to the standard, you need to prove that Heaven contain actual, scientifically accurate star, not just "star in the sky", back then these kind of feat automatically be multi solar, but the standard got stricter cause.

And where is High 3-A come from???

I don't see that anywhere on the tiering system pages and I haven't seen other verses have to do that. Like why wouldn't we assume that what's stated to be a star, has similar aspects as stars, and stated by a reliable source to be stars isn't a star. And how can you even prove it anyway, Do we need a statement from NASA confirming the Stars are scientifically accurate. Doesn't make much sense to me so I don't think that's true, it seems like a very unrealistic expectation.

The Human Realm section of my blog, mainly the numerous statements of Earth's Touki being infinite. (Having Density and Volume would qualify it for infinite mass) And the amount of it you have directly increases your Durability. Also, the underground training space stated to be infinitely wide which would be consistent with the Touki statements.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Also, not to be rude but this seems like contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism. Something that should be a standard assumption shouldn't need to be proven. Like do we not just assume that all verses' cosmologies are 3-A without any evidence to prove or deny it just because the world is similar? Why shouldn't the same apply to stars?

 

[Vietthai96]

Cause there are verses that have realm have stars, but turn out those "stars" is just like painting, or hologram to give illusion of having stars in the sky

 

[Digital_Franz]

Also, not to be rude but this seems like contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism. Something that should be a standard assumption shouldn't need to be proven. Like do we not just assume that all verses' cosmologies are 3-A without any evidence to prove or deny it just because the world is similar? Why shouldn't the same apply to stars?

I need to clarify some things. What others tell you is that heaven must first appear to be a universe. Even if a dimension is said to be infinite, this does not mean that it gives the High 3-A tier because it can be empty. You should know that this dimension must be composed of Astral Bodies which will then make you suppose that it is a universe and that being infinite, it has an GBE much superior to that of a universe.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Cause there are verses that have realm have stars, but turn out those "stars" is just like painting, or hologram to give illusion of having stars in the sky

There is nothing in the series to imply that, and I think there's a fair bit of evidence supporting my claim. Like, why would the Angels need to dedicate large amount of their resources to observe the stars if they were just painting or holograms? And for a race with more well developed technology than Earth's, statements like it being endless should at least lend more credence to Multi Solar as space could be described the same way and we have a decent degree of knowledge about our world's size. The stars are mentioned to be able to produce light and because of the size of the Second Heaven, the light from the stars wouldn't be able to reach them. (Issei describes it as being unlike a planetarium in that way) And the only reason Issei and the other's can see is because their race can specifically see in the dark, why would someone create fake stars just for them to be so far away you can't see them? It doesn't make sense, and there's a way that God could've created real stars via Sacred Gears like Innovate Clear.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Poison resistance for Issei, Volume 5 was immune to Kuroka's poison because of the Boosted Gear. (Should apply to Rias, Xenovia, and Euclid also.)

I will add Wukong to my list by the weekend, since Kuroka's normal poison isn't strong enough to affect him. She had to make a special poison.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I need to clarify some things. What others tell you is that heaven must first appear to be a universe. Even if a dimension is said to be infinite, this does not mean that it gives the High 3-A tier because it can be empty. You should know that this dimension must be composed of Astral Bodies which will then make you suppose that it is a universe and that being infinite, it has an GBE much superior to that of a universe.

I don't think anyone is talking about Heaven being the size of a universe anymore.

The current issue is, the second level of Heaven is described to be a place created to observe the stars. The contention is that the stars could be fake and it needs to be proven that they are real? I would say the burden of proof is on those that think the stars are fake. Is there any reason to think a description of stars is...well, not stars? This isn't a visual medium (novel text) also, like those game feats where it's not certain if they are actual stars or a fancy light show. In this case, the characters just say there are stars.

In this case, the information we have, is that it's described as stars but the light doesn't reach you (unlike a planetarium, as pointed out above). That's about the only info we currently have.