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I already say that but look like no one see thatbut I have already found the solution to all this, it is called training.
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I already say that but look like no one see thatbut I have already found the solution to all this, it is called training.
Shalba was at the level of the original Beelzebub and he was the leader of the Maou faction. That implies he’s stronger than Katerea, which adds up because Beelzebub is second behind Lucifer.At no point is it said that Katerea Ophis's Snake is at the level of the original Leviathan and the scale and values are fine.
The current Maou were initially meant to be equal to the previous Maou, not above. That means Katerea, being nearly equal to Serafall, was not quite equal to the previous Leviathan.“To tell you the truth, out of the three factions of the God, the Fallen Angels and the Devils, the Devils have the least power. We are actually in a tight spot but we are still safe because the current Maou-samas have powers equal to those of the previous Maou-samas.”
Ah, no.Shalba was at the level of the original Beelzebub and he was the leader of the Maou faction. That implies he’s stronger than Katerea, which adds up because Beelzebub is second behind Lucifer.
Even more true considering the "over" statement.Ah, no.
Just because Shalba Ophis's Snake is on the level of the Original Beelzebub doesn't mean Katerea Ophis's Snake is on the level of the Original Leaviathan. Neither does Azazel wanting to use BxB against Creuserey Ophis's Snake mean anything on this scale.
Katarea Base scales to be able to fight Azazel Base even if he's somewhat inferior to him and Katerea Ophis's Snake is between 10 to 100 times his Base.
DxD Zero doesn't mean anything either.
You're accusing everyone of headcanon when you're the only one using headcanon.
As long as one possesses this, it could be ten times, or even a strengthening of over a hundred times is possible.
Well, I think it was worth a try.One thing I disagree with is the "Half of Grendel" thing for reasons mentioned in the other thread, not something I personally disagree with, I just don't think the site would accept that.
You could definitely ask staff members about the feat and if it'd be usable for a 50% value if you want.Well, I think it was worth a try.
Nah, I have only used canon statements but you people are basing everything on your fanon numbers using Boost multipliers, which are based off fanon calcs at that.Ah, no.
Just because Shalba Ophis's Snake is on the level of the Original Beelzebub doesn't mean Katerea Ophis's Snake is on the level of the Original Leaviathan. Neither does Azazel wanting to use BxB against Creuserey Ophis's Snake mean anything on this scale.
Katarea Base scales to be able to fight Azazel Base even if he's somewhat inferior to him and Katerea Ophis's Snake is between 10 to 100 times his Base.
DxD Zero doesn't mean anything either.
You're accusing everyone of headcanon when you're the only one using headcanon.
No, seriously. Is Kokabiel somehow not a Cadre? The entire logic now is to make Kokabiel orders of magnitudes below Mirana, which goes against this statement, just to fit some multiplier numbers.In order to support those two, Rossweisse-san fired off large bursts of offensive magic. Mirana-san created an extremely large spear of light (its power was almost on the same level as a Fallen Angel Cadre) to easily obliterate her spells.
The Yasaka statement was moreso a general statement of her power. Don’t think it takes into account the leylines, because iirc, Yasaka with the leylines briefly overpowered Yu Long.And TMI, I agree with most of your previously mentioned stuff regarding the Youkai, Saji, and Ross. Though, I'd probs change the reasoning a bit. If VP Saji would be relative (same general tier) to Grendel, I'd argue that the Yasaka Ultimate Class statement was incorrect. (Ex: That statement was made when she was empowered by Kyoto, and when she wasn't empowered by Kyoto, she was able to fight a Bandersnatch. Something that teams of Ultimate Class Devils couldn't do.) (One thing I disagree with is the "Half of Grendel" thing for reasons mentioned in the other thread, not something I personally disagree with, I just don't think the site would accept that.)
Kunou followed us on the teleport, and ended up on the battlefield with us. However, even though Kunou had a young body, she was clad in a powerful Youki, and her golden hair had turned white. This was something that showed a glimpse of the Divine Beasts, Masaki Gitsune. Kunou added her own aura on Yasaka-san, increasing her mother's Youkai power. It was a mother-daughter combination. Youkai who were proud of their strength also fought right next to Yasaka-san. While we were fighting the group of Artificial Devils, Rias and Yasaka-san shouted at me.
Kunou didn't have that ability yet bro, she gained that in Shin right?Also, Yasaka fought the Bandersnatch with Kunou who can enhance her power.
Not sure honestly, I just remembered it’s a thing but I don’t feel like going back to check volume 12 rn.Kunou didn't have that ability yet bro, she gained that in Shin right?
Not sure honestly, I just remembered it’s a thing but I don’t feel like going back to check volume 12 rn.
Quote from the end of DX 2 (Latter half of Arc 4), and the statements given imply that it's a recent development since they had only met once before V12.“I won’t just stand here and do nothing! I am Kyoto Youkai’s leader, Yasaka’s daughter, Kunou!”
Kunou summoned her power and… her blond hair turned white! Her body is now emitting an overwhelming aura unfitting of this little girl.
“I also trained daily! If I want to walk the path with you guys I need to be strong!”
Our nine tail princess shouted confidently!
When Kunou’s hair changed colour, even Nurarihyon stood up from his seat and exclaimed.
“… her hair has turned white… is she going to turn into Hakumen no Mono Kyubi no Kitsune… [23]”
When the Elder cat heard him, she shook her head.
“No, boss. This isn’t Hakumen no Mono Kyubi no Kitsune. This is more like a Beast god from [Hakkenden], similar to Masaki Kitsune. It becomes [Koryuu] [24] when it gets stronger… maybe it is because of her relationship with that Sekiryuutei boy that it is affecting her growth…?” [25]
This'd just confirm Saji being around that Maou Class in VP as TMI suggested previously.The Yasaka statement was moreso a general statement of her power. Don’t think it takes into account the leylines, because iirc, Yasaka with the leylines briefly overpowered Yu Long.
He has the exact same Pawn value as Yu Long under the same tournament rules, which is 5. The same as Ouryuu and one higher than Rossweisse (5).This'd just confirm Saji being around that Maou Class
Okay, yeah. Just checked volume 12 and Kiba doesn’t say Kunou is increasing Yasaka’s power. She did have an army of youkai there though.Quote from the end of DX 2 (Latter half of Arc 4), and the statements given imply that it's a recent development since they had only met once before V12.
And since Kiba saw Kunou in V9 and gave the narration in V12, and didn't note anything different about her, we can assume she was in her base state.
Also
Most of her Youkai were getting outclassed by V9 Base Issei right? Or was that an anime only thing?Okay, yeah. Just checked volume 12 and Kiba doesn’t say Kunou is increasing Yasaka’s power. She did have an army of youkai there though.
What? That’s not the case at all. Is this a lack of reading comprehension?a statement whose validity depends on Kokabiel being the only Cadre we've seen fight... when we've seen Armaros, Azazel, and Baraqiel fight.
Kokabiel, yes. Did you misunderstand?Kokabiel and the Old Maou's strength was surpassed by the Fullpower of the first CxC
They said the youkai brought along with Yasaka were those confident in their strength.Most of her Youkai were getting outclassed by V9 Base Issei right? Or was that an anime only thing?
Kokabiel is stronger than the first CxC without Boost, but inferior to the first CxC with Boost.CxC Issei is stronger than Kokabiel.
IT DOESN'T MATTER
- class ranking system and how integral it is to the lore (hopefully we remember this lore argument is how Boost got accepted in the first place)
- Pawn value in the Rating Game tournament and why it’s based on strength.
- why the amount of wings correlates to power level for angels and fallen angels.
FALSEwhy Kokabiel is stronger than most of the current main characters and Mirana,
LIARwhy Issei, Sairaorg, Xenovia, Saji, etc are not Maou class.
SUPER FALSEwhy Grendel isn’t stronger than a Maou
Give up nowwhy Dulio’s team members should scale to Ultimate class (as literally stated in the novel)
Ok, Low Class beings can be "confident in their strength, and considering that the context is likely a bunch of Low Class beings vs a Maou Class being, the analogy seems kinda irrelevant.They said the youkai brought along with Yasaka were those confident in their strength.
Besides, sometimes weaklings can matter in large numbers. A group of middle class beings working together can beat an inexperienced high class devil according to Shin DxD volume 1.
It does depend on the context.
Explain BFF cause if that’s actually true then these r nothing more then inflationNah, I have only used canon statements but you people are basing everything on your fanon numbers using Boost multipliers, which are based off fanon calcs at that.
it isn't lol, there's a reason that a majority of the knowledgeable members here are disagreeing.Explain BFF cause if that’s actually true then these r nothing more then inflation
Just cause members r disagreeing doesn’t mean it’s true. Plenty of people will agree on something just cause it’s an upgrade (same for opponents wanting a downgrade).it isn't lol, there's a reason that a majority of the knowledgeable members here are disagreeing.
I have no idea what you're talking about but okJust cause members r disagreeing doesn’t mean it’s true. Plenty of people will agree on something just cause it’s an upgrade (same for opponents wanting a downgrade).
Plus outliers and PIS don’t even exist anymore so people create CRTs and it get passed without a glance
This CRT is to get a general rule added to the verse page that should be followed when scaling the series, and or get this added to the discussion rules page for DxD.
Angel: Low, Middle, High, Ultimate, Seraph
Fallen Angel: Low, Middle, Cadre
Dragon: Low, High, Dragon King, Heavenly Dragon, Dragon God
Devil: Low, Middle, High, Ultimate, Maou, Special (Super Devils and Transcendental devils may or may not be equivalent to this.)
Grim Reaper: Low, High, Ultimate (Executive may or may not be equivalent to this.)
1. In comparison to Boosts, the class system has been very inconsistent throughout the series despite having equal importance.
2. Narratively, the class system would lead you to believe that X character is stronger than Y, when via onscreen feats (And the Boost ability), Y is stronger than X.
3. There are examples of this inconsistent method of scaling the characters (class system) contradicting the consistent method of scaling the characters. (Boost)
4. The Class System doesn't only base it's scaling around strength, but other abilities as well, like achievement, royalty, leadership, speed, durability, technique, skill, ability to gather powerful teammates, potential, and other metrics. So we can't reliably determine what "X is Maou-Class" refers to exactly and we shouldn't default to assuming that it just means strength.
5. Characters that are ranked below certain classes can perform feats or output strength equal to a higher class. (Ex. Tannin is Ultimate Class but has Maou Class strength)
6. The range of strength varies widely for every class, X and Y can be in the same class but be millions of times apart via feats. So when someone says, "Z is High Class", we don't know where that is due to the ranges being so varied.
7. Strength of classes vary between race. (Ex: Grim Reapers, there Ultimate Class is comparable to Devils Maou Class.) So when someone says, Y is Ultimate Class, most of the time, the description isn't detailed enough for us to know which race's class they are referring to. Especially when there are so many races in DxD (Angels, Fallen Angels, Devils, Dragons, Grim Reapers) that all are important and all are amongst the cast. It requires far too many assumptions to claim that it always refers to that of the Devil when contextually, it doesn't.
8. The top tiers of one class bleeds in to the bottom tiers of the next so claiming that X character that is a high tier of ultimate class isn't a low tier of maou class is very unreasonable.
9. Most class statements are just the author telling the reader where he believes a characters strength is via a character in the story, and because neither the author nor the characters are infallible, we should evaluate these statements with scrutiny. (Especially due to the presence of multiple authors.)
10. Some statements become outdated after a very short period of time due to the characters training. (Train during and between Volumes and can grow massively in short periods of time.)
For non knowledgeable members, the class system could be compared to the ninja ranking system in Naruto.
For the above reasons, I'll propose changes to how we evaluate this system and statements related to it.
1. We only use Classes to determine a minimum of a characters stats, not a cap.
2. We only use statements that are mostly sound, if any contradictions are present, we use their feats to determine which is more accurate.
3. Boosts take precedence in importance over Classes if there're contradictions between the two found.
4. Following this CRT, we make a blog determining the ranges of each class.
5. Write off certain statements that are contradicted.
6. Statements only apply at the time they are made.
7. If contradictions apply between the two authors, Ishibumi's word takes precedence.
8. Statements from the main series (DxD 1-25, Shin DxD 1-4) outweighs statements from secondary sources. (SD 1-3, DX 1-7, ED, 0, JDxD 1-2)
Fixed in the Sandbox, I'll upload the CRT tomorrow since there have been no contest to the CRT so far.It seems fine to me, determining the ranks of each class was something I wanted after we had values we could use.
One thing, you forgot about the gods, originally we only knew the levels of the gods as God Class, Chief God Class and the Gods of the Top 10 Strongest Beings, but later the concepts of Non-Combatant God Class/Low-Level God and Combatant God Class/High-Level God were introduced.
There are examples of this inconsistent method of scaling the characters (class system) contradicting the consistent method of scaling the characters. (Boost)
Where are the quotes to support this? This honestly just seems like an attempt to make CxC Issei Maou class when he’s stated to be Ultimate class.The top tiers of one class bleeds in to the bottom tiers of the next so claiming that X character that is a high tier of ultimate class isn't a low tier of maou class is very unreasonable.
Not at all. Boost itself is arguably the single most inconsistent thing in the series and everyone knows it. And no, an ability developed by Ddraig is not of equal importance to the class rankings at all.In comparison to Boosts, the class system has been very inconsistent throughout the series despite having equal importance.
Simple.The Devils trembled in fear. One of them then spoke with an alarmed voice.
“Just with one punch!? Impossible! Even though we wouldn’t fall behind a High-class Devil!”
“—Ultimate-class Devil, huh. You don’t look like one though.”
There was a system to rank a Devil’s power… Low-class Devil, Middle-class Devil, High-class devil, Ultimate-class Devil, Maou-class Devil, and Transcendental-level
They are not secondary sources, they are literally all main canon. Volume 8 and 13 are literally the same short story volumes as any other DX volumes. Volume 15 is mostly a side story volume.Statements from the main series (DxD 1-25, Shin DxD 1-4) outweighs statements from secondary sources. (SD 1-3, DX 1-7, ED, 0, JDxD 1-2)
The Boost multipliers are now being used to override everything in the novel. To summarize, these are the things that override for the sake of Boost alone:Explain BFF cause if that’s actually true then these r nothing more then inflation
I dont believe the accepted rating was 40+ so idk what you meanAlso, by the way, someone on Reddit checked the Juggernaut Drive raws and it wasn’t up to 40+ Boosts.
Not sure if it’ll affect the Small Star rating, but it was 30+ iirc. Check the sub @MasqueTLDF
They don't matter
- Class rankings
- Pawn values in the world tournament
- Wings correlating to strength for angels and fallen angels
again the first CxC is Ultimate Class, his Fullpower is Maou Class.Characters being explicitly stated as Ultimate class being upgraded above a Maou because of the multipliers
oh come on, you're still clinging to the same nonsense? I prefer to rely on the scale supported by the events seen in several volumes than a single statement that is inconsistent with history itself. The fact that the narrative takes 10 volumes (and an increase in power) to make a clear fact only proves that the narrative has problems.A character explicitly below a Cadre is now being scaled thousands of times above a Cadre
I don't agree with leaving DX, Slashdog and Junior aside unless there is a good reason for it.
- DX volumes are now somehow lower than the main volumes, even though Volume 8 and 13 are literally compilations of short stories.
- Now I’m hearing that Slash Dog and Junior DxD are somehow below in precedence compared to DxD
They already have it and you're the only one complaining because the scale shows that the narrative is inconsistent, something everyone else already knew.I just want the characters to be scaled appropriately