Problem with Rias Gremory's power

[Narutouchiha95]

Hello everyone, I'm creating this topic because of a question I had after reading all 25 volumes of High School DxD and checking Rias's wiki.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Rias_Gremory

I should mention that I'm Spanish and I read the novels in Spanish, so anything I say below might be due to a bad translation, but I wanted to be sure.

That said, here's my question:

1. Rias's profile states that she's superior to Diodora as her base power and possibly even greater, being comparable to Riser with flame wings.

Furthermore, they're compared several times throughout the novel, implying that they're similar or that Riser is slightly stronger.

On the other hand, it's worth noting that Diodora is only slightly weaker than Rias. And Rias's power hasn't increased much from volume 1 to 5.

Riser >= Rias >= Diodora

However, in Riser and Diodora's profiles, the power level jumps from Mountain to Island, even though they are supposedly comparable.

This is my first question:

Where in the novel is it established that Riser is significantly more powerful using flame wings? It's never mentioned as a transformation or a multiplier, and the comparisons never specify that it's a particular version of Riser.

2. In Volume 2, it's established that Issei with 12 Boost has the power of a high-class devil.

Issei 12 Boost = High-Class Devil

In Diodora's profile, this is the base of her power level. Therefore:

Riser >= Rias >= Diodora = Issei 12Boost = High-Class Demon

3. Before the Rating Game confrontation with Riser, Rias speaks with Issei and tells him that part of his training was to gain enough power to unlock the power of all eight of his Pawns, since previously he only had one active because his body couldn't handle it.

This isn't mentioned anywhere in the profiles, as far as I can see.

It can't be guaranteed that he becomes eight times stronger, but I understand that would be the most obvious option.

Here the scale breaks down because:

Issei 12Boost 8 Evil Pieces >>>> Issei 12Boost = Diodora <= Rias ≠ Riser

3. Later, Issei obtains the incomplete BxB form, and in that form, he is still weaker than Riser, although he is able to put up a fight. And the incomplete BxB is far superior to the previous 12Boost forms, breaking the scale once again.

Rias =< Riser >= Issei Incomplete BxB >> Issei 12Boost 8 Evil Pieces >>>> Issei 12Boost = Diodora <= Rias =< Riser

I think a large part of this stems from putting Diodora at the level of Issei 12Boost, which holds back the rest of the characters. Issei 12Boost is the minimum, and Diodora's level should start from Rias's, not the other way around. Basically, I suggest this:

Riser >= Issei Incomplete BxB >= Rias >= Diodora >> Issei 12Boost 8 Evil Pieces >>>> Issei 12Boost

4. Another question I have is that the profile doesn't specify that Rias has any transformation or technique that multiplies her power differently from her base form. I agree with this, since the novel never mentions anything like that. I say this because I've seen several topics differentiate Rias Ruin Princess as a transformation.

I understand where the multiplier, the Boost concept, and the mention of x10 come from in the novel. But the novel never actually mentions that this is a transformation or something specific to Rias, and we already know that Boosts are often inconsistent.

So here's another question: Is Ruin Princess mentioned anywhere in the novel as a special form of Rias beyond simply using more power?

In the confrontation with Riser, Rias would have no reason to hold back, just like Riser. Therefore, in the end, it would be the same.

5. Later, in volume 5, Issei achieves his complete BxB form, becoming far superior to before and demonstrating superiority over Diodora with Ophis's power, which is x10.

Issei V5 Complete BxB > Diodora Ophis's Power >> Riser >= Issei Incomplete BxB >= Rias >= Diodora >> Issei 12Boost 8 Evil Pieces >>>> Issei 12Boost

It's worth noting that Issei was training during volume 5, so even his incomplete form would be superior to his version from volume 2.

All of this suggests that Issei BxB is many times stronger than Rias, much more than 10 times stronger.

But then in later volumes, it's clarified that Issei Complete BxB has a power level comparable to Riser, breaking the scale again. It's worth noting that this is Riser without any training, as he had been mostly confined to his room, and the comparison is based on Issei's previous encounter with him.

Riser = Issei V5 Complete BxB > Diodora Ophis' Power >> Riser >= Issei Incomplete BxB >= Rias >= Diodora >> Issei 12Boost 8 Evil Pieces >>>> Issei 12Boost

So, to summarize:

- Where is it established that Riser and Riser Flame Wings are two different characters when it comes to power levels?

- Where is it established that Rias and Rias Ruin Princess are two different characters when it comes to power levels?

- How do we reconcile Rias being comparable to Riser, and Riser being comparable to Issei BxB, and Issei being far superior to Diodora x10, when Diodora is comparable to Rias?

Thank you very much.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Siempre tienes que leer las novelas en japones bro

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Siempre tienes que leer las novelas en japones bro

Ojala supiera japones xd me ahorraria muchos problemas jaja

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I don’t think Riser’s page is updated.

How do we reconcile Rias being comparable to Riser

They are directly stated comparable by Issei.

and Riser being comparable to Issei BxB

1. They were comparable in volume 2, assuming you are referring to Issei’s incomplete Balance Breaker.

2. If you’re talking about Issei’s complete Balance Breaker, then Riser is not scaled to that level until ~Volume 19 timeline (their third rematch in the short story).

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Siempre tienes que leer las novelas en japones bro

Ojala supiera japones xd me ahorraria muchos problemas jaja

Small reminder, it is not allowed talking on the forums in anything but english

pero no se preocupen yo les entiendo

 

[Narutouchiha95]

No creo que la página de Riser esté actualizada.

Issei afirma directamente que son comparables.

1. Eran comparables en el volumen 2, asumiendo que te refieres al Balance Breaker incompleto de Issei.

2. Si estás hablando del Balance Breaker completo de Issei, entonces Riser no se escala a ese nivel hasta la línea de tiempo del Volumen 19 (su tercera revancha en la historia corta).

2. No, when it's mentioned that they're comparable, Issei already had the complete BxB. That's the problem.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

2. No, when it's mentioned that they're comparable, Issei already had the complete BxB. That's the problem.

It’s mentioned that Riser was comparable to Issei’s complete Balance Breaker? Before Volume 19?

Please show the quotes from the novel. I don’t remember that being stated.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

It’s mentioned that Riser was comparable to Issei’s complete Balance Breaker? Before Volume 19?

Please show the quotes from the novel. I don’t remember that being stated.

I'll look it up for you as soon as I can. But just to refresh your memory, it's the episode that adapts the anime OVA where Riser reappears.

Volume 13
Life.4
The Unressurected Phoenix
Part 2

"
Buchou explains. Ravel also nods.
“Yes. It seems like losing to Ise-sama, head on, left a deep scar in
both his body and soul.”
“But, Raiser-san was also strong. If it’s now……I wonder which one
of us is stronger?”
Kiba answers my question.
“If it’s the current Ise-kun, then you will be comparable to Mr. Raiser
Phoenix even at his full power. No, most likely you can beat him. In
terms of spirit…the guts you have is superior to him. The pressure of
taking on a Heavenly Dragon will drain their spirit and it will also
hinder the traits of the immortal bird. Being immortal is the biggest
factor for the power of the Phoenix, so having that hindered will give
a big blow to him.”
Ho, if this guy says that, then it must be true. In regards to battle,
Kiba calculates calmly after all.
“…….Is it that scary to fight me?”·

And this is a memory that takes place before volume 10.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I'll look it up for you as soon as I can. But just to refresh your memory, it's the episode that adapts the anime OVA where Riser reappears.

Volume 13
Life.4
The Unressurected Phoenix
Part 2

"
Buchou explains. Ravel also nods.
“Yes. It seems like losing to Ise-sama, head on, left a deep scar in
both his body and soul.”
“But, Raiser-san was also strong. If it’s now……I wonder which one
of us is stronger?”
Kiba answers my question.
“If it’s the current Ise-kun, then you will be comparable to Mr. Raiser
Phoenix even at his full power. No, most likely you can beat him. In
terms of spirit…the guts you have is superior to him. The pressure of
taking on a Heavenly Dragon will drain their spirit and it will also
hinder the traits of the immortal bird. Being immortal is the biggest
factor for the power of the Phoenix, so having that hindered will give
a big blow to him.”
Ho, if this guy says that, then it must be true. In regards to battle,
Kiba calculates calmly after all.
“…….Is it that scary to fight me?”·

And this is a memory that takes place before volume 10.

Hmm. Assuming we take that at face value, then Riser could have somehow gotten stronger passively.

We know that most high-class devils don’t train because they are born with innately superior talent and potential to low-class devils. Azazel had said Rias can reach the highest grade of devils, even if she doesn’t train much.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hmm. Assuming we take that at face value, then Riser could have somehow gotten stronger passively.

We know that most high-class devils don’t train because they are born with innately superior talent and potential to low-class devils. Azazel had said Rias can reach the highest grade of devils, even if she doesn’t train much.

You and I both know this is an inconsistency, like the ones we've mentioned before, since Kiba also has no way of knowing how much stronger Riser has become. They're referring to the Riser they faced and the one the reader knows; it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

We also can't assume that the characters become more than ten times more powerful (which is what we're talking about here) every time they reappear without any mention of training.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

You and I both know this is an inconsistency, like the ones we've mentioned before, since Kiba also has no way of knowing how much stronger Riser has become. They're referring to the Riser they faced and the one the reader knows; it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

It could be. DxD has several inconsistencies like any other shounen or fantasy. Kiba may also be speaking very generously about Riser’s strength, as we know for a fact that Riser was comparable to the incomplete Balance Breaker.

If only someone had the raws, or does the OVA translation say the same thing?

Either way, it can be written off as an inconsistency.

So, at the end, what are you suggesting?

 

[Narutouchiha95]

So, at the end, what are you suggesting?

First, define which part of the scale is inconsistent and which isn't, since you might consider Riser = Issei Complete BxB inconsistent because Riser should be at the level of Issei Incomplete BxB. However, someone else might argue that the inconsistency lies in the significant difference between Issei Complete BxB and Rias, and that since Riser's declaration comes from later volumes, it would be an inconsistency that Issei Complete BxB above Diodora Snake Power or a retcon of what happened in volume 5.

The scale with inconsistencies included

Riser = Issei V5 Complete BxB >= Rias >=Diodora > Diodora Ophis' Power >>> Riser >= Issei Incomplete BxB >= Rias >= Diodora >> Issei 12Boost 8 Evil Pieces >>>> Issei 12Boost

The second point is to clarify whether "Rias Ruin Princess" and "Riser Wings of Flames" are real transformations/enhancers and should appear on the scale, or if they are fan inventions.