High School DxD Universe Discussion Thread

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Damn, my lazy ass forgot to edit @Qliphoth_Bacikal sandbox, busy with applying DB revision bruhh

Seems like you don't get enough OPPAI in your life since Ishibumi is being Ishibumi owo

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Okay, the revamped cosmology blog is pretty much done. All timeline information comes exclusively from DxD, and the Dimensional Gap is 2-A. Like I said earlier, I think this reasoning is much better than "muh infinite 4D hurdur" but I'd like to hear all of your thoughts.
Edit: Not sure if I should or could make a CRT to replace the other blog and present the more solid reasoning fr 2-A.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Okay, the revamped cosmology blog is pretty much done. All timeline information comes exclusively from DxD, and the Dimensional Gap is 2-A. Like I said earlier, I think this reasoning is much better than "muh infinite 4D hurdur" but I'd like to hear all of your thoughts.
Edit: Not sure if I should or could make a CRT to replace the other blog and present the more solid reasoning fr 2-A.

I think I brought this up before but the Dimensional Gap, as we know it, is called Earth’s Dimensional Gap. DxD Earth (Draconic Deus) refers to the human world and the various mythology dimensions.

So it’s very possible that the other worlds (ExE, FxF, etc) have their own dimensional gaps. This should be the default assumption unless we think the Dragon Gods are somehow stabilizing the other worlds.

So I don’t think it’s 2-A based on current evidence. We should treat the Dimensional Gap maintained by Great Red as only for Draconic Deus unless we’re given other explicit evidence.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

The field was a vast plateau. There were rivers and forests, while mountain ranges stood in the northeast and southwest." "The vast plateau had been flattened from south to north, the forests and rivers had been completely vaporised, and all that remained was a barren surface which had been exposed by a single blast" The wording would imply that several mountain ranges were vaporized, in comparison to the one used to get the Small Country Level rating, wouldn't that mean PDxD could get the country Level rating that AxA currently has? Maybe even higher if instead of assuming the minimum for mountain ranges, we go for an average size? (For the V22 calc and the DX. 4 calc, I'm not even sure if the current Small Country calc is even valid considering how outdated it is.)

I'd say six digits is fine, the Western, Mexican, and Colorado plateaus are all in that range and they're far from being the largest.

Someone made this thread a while ago.
There I published a comment where it talks about the scale of the Heavenly Dragon Class

Well, we can put these calcs in a blog to be evaluated then.

Another thing, a while ago someone posted this thread asking about Excalibur and I was the only one who answered, that's why I don't know if what I said was correct since no one said anything.

This looks fine to me. Others can check as well.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I think I brought this up before but the Dimensional Gap, as we know it, is called Earth’s Dimensional Gap. DxD Earth (Draconic Deus) refers to the human world and the various mythology dimensions.

Only called that because Great Red who is affiliated with the Earth Gods and DxD is in control of it, currently it is ExE's dimensional gap. Also because that is the area within the Dimensional Gap looks different around DxD, as the DG is Kaleidoscopic and constantly changes colors, that would be the reason Rugatimu notes it looks different.

So it’s very possible that the other worlds (ExE, FxF, etc) have their own dimensional gaps. This should be the default assumption unless we think the Dragon Gods are somehow stabilizing the other worlds.

So I don’t think it’s 2-A based on current evidence. We should treat the Dimensional Gap maintained by Great Red as only for Draconic Deus unless we’re given other explicit evidence.

Volume 16, Great Red was the reason the Evie's couldn't get to DxD, which is why they killed him in Shin 4. Also, the timelines are shown to be within the DG in BorN and the UL and Sekiryuutei Children are shown to be from the same timeline. This would only make sense if the DG was 2-A with the Timelines being the outermost part of it as it lacks the Kaleidoscopic color, and the Kaleidoscopic part containing the three worlds. (1 Kscope per timeline, there are Infinite Timelines meaning infinite Kscopes, the group of timelines being the 2-A part which canonically is without a name but as the largest structure is called the DG, I call the Infinite Timelines that as well if this makes any sense)

 

[MasqueTLDF]

But other than that did you agree with the amount of timelines that exist?
Edit: Wouldn't the existence of Onmyoudou imply that Taoism and Confucianism exist?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Only called that because Great Red who is affiliated with the Earth Gods and DxD is in control of it, currently it is ExE's dimensional gap. Also because that is the area within the Dimensional Gap looks different around DxD, as the DG is Kaleidoscopic and constantly changes colors, that would be the reason Rugatimu notes it looks different.

Why would the Dragon Gods or whoever from Draconic Deus, be in charge of a Dimensional Gap that extends to other worlds? I don’t think it should be assumed.

The kaleidoscopic aspect could mean either that, or that is how Draconic Deus’ dimensional gap looks like. There could be completely different ones for the other worlds, for all we know.

I mean, if it’s confirmed, we could always adjust the cosmology page. I think we should only limit it to the extent of Draconic Deus for now, since it’s stated as DxD’s dimensional gap.

Let us ask the current active posters here for input: @Qliphoth_Bacikal, @Vietthai96, @TotalMasterInfinity and anyone else I missed.

But other than that did you agree with the amount of timelines that exist?
Edit: Wouldn't the existence of Onmyoudou imply that Taoism and Confucianism exist?

I have not checked the timelines part. What did you place it as?

Maybe? Don’t know if it really matters when we don’t know what they mean in the context of DxD.

Edit: I checked your sandbox again and I’m thinking, does Dimension Lost stuff matter for the cosmology? They are just temporary dimensions. Innovate Clear might be different since it’s implied to have created a world somewhere, which Ajuka’s Game is based on.

 

[Vietthai96]

Timeline is show to be within DG. What???, while it is long time ago i watched BorN, i don't remember anything like that

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

About the timelines, we don’t know how many of them exist. Ishibumi mentions a lot on Twitter. Some other examples I remember:

• Siegfried, Lint and Freed escaping from the Sigurd Institute.
• Freed being friends with the main cast
• Adult/Elderly Tobio and Lavinia raising Vali and Freed at the Grigori
• Kiba being the Sekiryuutei
• Issei and Kiba actually gay in one parallel world

If it’s not obvious already, he loves Freed a lot. But in any case, we don’t know how many timelines there are in total.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Timeline is show to be within DG. What???, while it is long time ago i watched BorN, i don't remember anything like that

Ep 12 but the whole seaon's basically a nod to EX

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Regarding the matter of the Dimensional Gap, the Dimensional Gap we know of is supposed to be the Dimensional Gap of the Draconic Deus.

【There’s a message from our God-creator. It says he killed the one who ruled over the Dimensional Gap of this planet.】

The place Rugatimu arrived along with his subordinates after opening a warp hole was a place called the Dimensional Gap of the Earth. It was a peculiar area with a pattern in the sky that, for Evies, was hard to describe, a scenery looking like that of a kaleidoscope.

But the Dimensional Gap being exclusive to the Draconic Deus has its own problems.

If each world has its own version of the Dimensional Gap, then what is it that separates the different worlds? The Evies must be moving through something in order to carry out their invasions of other worlds, are the worlds contained within their Dimensional Gap while floating in some sort of "cosmic sea"? Something similar to the Wall of Light and the Ocean of Dimensions in Fantasy Re:Build?

Another thing is the matter of the Timelines, each timeline not only contains a version of each plane of existence of the Draconic Deus but also of the other worlds like Evie Etoulde, wouldn't that mean that each timeline also has its version of the Dimensional Gap? But how would that be possible if the Dimensional Gap is outside of time? How could the branching of time affect a timeless realm?

The only solution I can think of is that somehow the Timelines are not normal Timelines, but something like "Supertimelines", that is to say that they operate with a kind of "Super Time". Thus the Dimensional Gap would be outside of "Normal Time" but within "Super Time"

In that case the largest structure of the DxD Cosmology (not taking into account Fantasia Re:Build) would not be the Dimensional Gap but the Timelines.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Why would the Dragon Gods or whoever from Draconic Deus, be in charge of a Dimensional Gap that extends to other worlds? I don’t think it should be assumed.


The kaleidoscopic aspect could mean either that, or that is how Draconic Deus’ dimensional gap looks like. There could be completely different ones for the other worlds, for all we know.

I mean, if it’s confirmed, we could always adjust the cosmology page. I think we should only limit it to the extent of Draconic Deus for now, since it’s stated as DxD’s dimensional gap.

Could you let me know your thoughts on these interpretations?

Let us ask the current active posters here for input: @Qliphoth_Bacikal, @Vietthai96, @TotalMasterInfinity and anyone else I missed.

I have not checked the timelines part. What did you place it as?

2-A, every possibilities (of which there are infinite) creates a new one. (More detailed explanation in the sandbox)

Maybe? Don’t know if it really matters when we don’t know what they mean in the context of DxD.

True

Edit: I checked your sandbox again and I’m thinking, does Dimension Lost stuff matter for the cosmology? They are just temporary dimensions. Innovate Clear might be different since it’s implied to have created a world somewhere, which Ajuka’s Game is based on.

Ig I could remove the DL stuff as most of the time, the dimensions dissipate after their creation.

Ep 12 but the whole seaon's basically a nod to EX

Kinda obtained a new interpretation over the past hour so this statement is kinda outdated lmao

 

[MasqueTLDF]

But the Dimensional Gap being exclusive to the Draconic Deus has its own problems.

If each world has its own version of the Dimensional Gap, then what is it that separates the different worlds? The Evies must be moving through something in order to carry out their invasions of other worlds, are the worlds contained within their Dimensional Gap while floating in some sort of "cosmic sea"? Something similar to the Wall of Light and the Ocean of Dimensions in Fantasy Re:Build?

Exactly which is why this is so complicated, and if there is a larger space that they travel through, it would have to be 5D (No one would scale) as DxD and ExE are referred to as parallel. That's what I've been thinking the space shown in the middle of episode 12 of BorN is.

Another thing is the matter of the Timelines, each timeline not only contains a version of each plane of existence of the Draconic Deus but also of the other worlds like Evie Etoulde, wouldn't that mean that each timeline also has its version of the Dimensional Gap? But how would that be possible if the Dimensional Gap is outside of time? How could the branching of time affect a timeless realm?

The only solution I can think of is that somehow the Timelines are not normal Timelines, but something like "Supertimelines", that is to say that they operate with a kind of "Super Time". Thus the Dimensional Gap would be outside of "Normal Time" but within "Super Time"

That's the part I'm confused about, I don't exactly understand these higher levels of time but if you believe your interpretation is correct and everyone agrees, feel free to edit the sandbox.

In that case the largest structure of the DxD Cosmology (not taking into account Fantasia Re:Build) would not be the Dimensional Gap but the Timelines.

I agree but I just assumed calling the Timelines a part of the DG would be more correct as it is above time. But I'll admit I'd probably be wrong.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

f each world has its own version of the Dimensional Gap, then what is it that separates the different worlds? The Evies must be moving through something in order to carry out their invasions of other worlds, are the worlds contained within their Dimensional Gap while floating in some sort of "cosmic sea"? Something similar to the Wall of Light and the Ocean of Dimensions in Fantasy Re:Build?

Another thing is the matter of the Timelines, each timeline not only contains a version of each plane of existence of the Draconic Deus but also of the other worlds like Evie Etoulde, wouldn't that mean that each timeline also has its version of the Dimensional Gap? But how would that be possible if the Dimensional Gap is outside of time? How could the branching of time affect a timeless realm?

Could you let me know your thoughts on these interpretations?

The problem with these interpretations is that they are just our speculations in the end. None of this is explicitly confirmed or debunked by the narrative, and we don’t even know if the authors are ever really going to clarify.

This multiple interpretations thing is just begging for another derailment if another cosmology thread is made, since we cannot even agree on it here on this thread, lol.

So we can’t really put our speculations in an “official” cosmology page. What we should put is the confirmed information we have about the mythologies.

So the Dimensional Gap should only pertain to Draconic Deus as Shin DxD 4 states. If the next volumes come out and it’s revealed to be connected to ExE, FxF and other timelines, we simply adjust it.

For now, I’d tentatively suggest we just stick to Draconic Deus and the current “main” timeline. Timelines can still be mentioned in another part of the blog, but not really connected to the DG, if you get what I mean.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Also, are we all fine with the plateau stuff and Excalibur Ruler abilities suggested in the previous page?

We can make pages for weapons and maybe Sacred Gears if anyone’s interested, since Nasuverse profiles have them.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The problem with these interpretations is that they are just our speculations in the end. None of this is explicitly confirmed or debunked by the narrative, and we don’t even know if the authors are ever really going to clarify.

This multiple interpretations thing is just begging for another derailment if another cosmology thread is made, since we cannot even agree on it here on this thread, lol.

So we can’t really put our speculations in an “official” cosmology page. What we should put is the confirmed information we have about the mythologies.

So the Dimensional Gap should only pertain to Draconic Deus as Shin DxD 4 states. If the next volumes come out and it’s revealed to be connected to ExE, FxF and other timelines, we simply adjust it.

For now, I’d tentatively suggest we just stick to Draconic Deus and the current “main” timeline. Timelines can still be mentioned in another part of the blog, but not really connected to the DG, if you get what I mean.

Ig although I'll wait for another comment from @TotalMasterInfinity and @Qliphoth_Bacikal before changing the DG section. But isn't powerscaling in general just speculation? And it seems that at least the latter thing about the multiple Dimensional Gaps along with the stuff from BorN should definitely be true.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Ig although I'll wait for another comment from @TotalMasterInfinity and @Qliphoth_Bacikal before changing the DG section. But isn't powerscaling in general just speculation? And it seems that at least the latter thing about the multiple Dimensional Gaps along with the stuff from BorN should definitely be true.

Yeah, we can wait.

True, powerscaling as a concept inherently requires different interpretations but in this case, the details are too vague to determine and we’ve already seen how the last thread went. Best not to go too much into speculation territory with the cosmology and work with what’s mostly confirmed to us atp.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

In reality, it is possible to avoid Great Red, Rizevim developed a technique that allows you to bypass Great Red's guard and sent it to the Evie

Rizevim did not need to release Trihexa to have his "war" he simply wanted to release it for fun, Regalzeva also had no need to kill Great Red to access Draconic Deus, in fact the Evies were already in Draconic Deus before Regalzeva killed Great Red, Ophis was the first to feel Great Red's death and that was after Issei found out about Team Vali's encounter with the Atrocoty Fanatics and what Durmado did in the ocean.

I don't know how to interpret the scenes from the Born anime.

those of the Super Timelines is just an idea that occurred, basically I was based on the idea that just as there can be multiple special dimensions there can also be multiple temporal dimensions

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

By the way, the more accurate translation for Ruma Idra attempting to destroy history is that it would have spawned many alternate timelines.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Yeah, we can wait.

True, powerscaling as a concept inherently requires different interpretations but in this case, the details are too vague to determine and we’ve already seen how the last thread went. Best not to go too much into speculation territory with the cosmology and work with what’s mostly confirmed to us atp.

I'll remove the speculation then but I still think it's an interesting topic to explore. Like we know there should be a space between the Dimensional Gapmthat contain them, and we see as Rias and Issei travel outside the Dimensional Gap, the travel to similarly shaped spaces and a space that contains and connects them. Ans it's mentioned in the LN that ExE and DxD are parallel and we see a similar orientation in that unknown realm outside the Dimensional Gap. Imo we could infer my interpretation.

And there's still the matter of the timelines in relation to the Dimensional Gap... (They're all stated to occupy different temporal axes too if that helps)
Edit: Praying that Shin/Season 5 comes soon to hopefully clarify. If the scenes from Volume 11/12 get adapted, we could possibly get more context.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Shin 5 should give more info about FxF at least.

And I think the Innovate Clear world is not part of Draconic Deus at all, since only Ajuka seems to have an idea about it and the characters that come from there (Mitsuya and his group) are said to be outside of the world’s laws.

That’s probably figurative, but yeah.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The DxD wiki states that Polar Night Longinus Chakravartin is a Crest Side Balance Breaker but wouldn't it be X Side? It wouldn't be based around Hinduism had it not been for Cao Cao's religion.
Wouldn't all Subspecies technically be X Side?

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Crest Side is characterized as "strengthening to the point of transformation" and includes both the original Balance Breaker and the Subspecies, Polar Night Longinus Chakravartin is a Balance Breaker Subspecies.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Crest Side is characterized as "strengthening to the point of transformation" and includes both the original Balance Breaker and the Subspecies, Polar Night Longinus Chakravartin is a Balance Breaker Subspecies.

Sword of Betrayer is consider both a subspecies and X Side on the wiki. "The X Side (慮外面(イクス・サイド), Ikusu Saido) is a irregular and unique form of Balance Breaker. This class of Balance Breaker belongs to a category that can't be classified under any of the known category due to being an irregular, either due to sudden change or it being a combination of the known categories."

The only thing that makes Subspecies Balance Breakers what they are is the sudden change. Sacred Gears follow a set evolution pattern being the Crest Side where for the Balance Breaker, the abilities simply grow more powerful. Two easy examples are the Balance Breakers of Forbidden Balor View and Twilight Healing which simply increase the range.

“Sensei I would like to ask you two questions. Is it possible for [Twilight Healing] to attain Balance-Breaker? Am I also able to attain Balance-Breaker? I would like to know these two answers.”

Hearing Asia’s question, Sensei gulped his alcohol and said....

“For the first question, there is. It is predicted that there is a Balance-Breaker state for Twilight Healing. It’s also “Yes” for the second question as well. If you are close to the Sekiryuutei Ise who makes lots of irregular phenomenon occur, then by training you will be able to reach it depending on how hard you work. It’s also possible to make it into a sub-species Balance-Breaker depending on your taste as well. –But Asia. Your ability has already reached perfection.”

“It’s just like I said. Your healing ability is already high and you have already mastered it. Just like you can see, because of your ability Ise and the others have overcome dangerous situations countless times. I could say that you are already using your Sacred Gear to the fullest. Even comparing you with other Twilight-Healing possessors, your level of healing ability, time needed to heal and other parts are all top-notch. Even the healing from long-range shows a result that far surpasses average numbers. Even if you were to get Balance-Breaker, it will just be a scale up of those aspects.”

“Most likely, they used a Sacred Gear or magic that transferred power on the half-Vampire kid’s Sacred Gear and forcefully made it go into Balance Breaker state. It’s only a temporary Balance Breaker state, but even then, to think that it even affects people present in the interior of objects outside the field of vision... So that half-Vampire’s potential ability was this high. Well, it seems that he lacks the output to stop us top-position guys though.”

These two directly fitting the definition of Crest Side. (with the abilities to either strengthen or evolve.) And X Sides literally called "new variations", Twilight Saint Affection, Sword of Betrayer, and Polar Night Longinus Chakravartin all fall under this category as every Subspecies is a new variation of the Balance Breaker.

"There was [Crest Side], which was your usual Balance Breaker, including the sub-species ones, with the abilities to either strengthen or evolve. Then, there was [Abyss Side], a phenomenon where the Sacred Gear and its user became one, which happened after the user polished themselves and the Sacred Gear to its limit, and if the user kept wishing for it. The last one was [Ex Side], a new variation that couldn’t be categorised into either of those two.

So basically, this would mean that Non Subspecies and Subspecies are Crest Side, Further evolved armor type Balance Breakers are Abyss Side, and Non further evolved? non armor type? subspecies are X side when that's obviously not the case.

"—The original meaning of Balance Breaker referred to a forbidden move of the Longinus. Azazel proposed that the possibilities of a Balance Breaker could be roughly divided into three types. The majority of Balance Breakers, including subspecies, could be classified as strengthening, evolving to a point of transformation. By pursuing the arrogance of themselves and the Sacred Gear, one would fuse together with their Sacred Gear to produce the Abyss Side. This was the type that Vali and Ikuse Tobio belonged to. Finally, there were those that couldn’t be categorised by this system due to their sudden variation, and those were the exceptions among exceptions. This was Hyoudou Issei, Kiba Yuuto’s Holy-Demonic Sword, Gasper Vladi, and Saji Genshirou; something had happened in relation to the Gremory peerage. In particular, Hyoudou Issei, Gasper Vladi and Saji Genshirou had also reached the Abyss Side. It could be described as an extremely abnormal generation. The phenomenon that was originally impossible began to occur frequently around Hyoudou Issei. Azazel was also quite intrigued by this."

If the given definitions were correct then there would be no distinction between Crest and X side.

If this is the case, either the wiki's definition of X/Crest Side and classification of Sword of Betrayer are wrong or the LN contradicted itself with the definition of Crest and X Side which I think is most likely in this case.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

So much to go over again lol.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

So much to go over again lol.

The community is evolving xd

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Originally we only knew that the original Balance Breaker, the Subspecies and the Irregular Balance Breakers existed.
Later we obtained the categories of Crest Side, Abyss Side and X Side, under this system the original Balance Breaker and the Subspecies are classified as Crest Side, the Irregular Balance Breakers become X Side, and previously unclassified forms such as Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive, Cardinal Crimson Promotion, Malebolge Vritra Promotion and Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast enter the Abyss Side category, with the mention that Cardinal Crimson Promotion, Malebolge Vritra Promotion and Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast are also X Side.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Originally we only knew that the original Balance Breaker, the Subspecies and the Irregular Balance Breakers existed.
Later we obtained the categories of Crest Side, Abyss Side and X Side, under this system the original Balance Breaker and the Subspecies are classified as Crest Side, the Irregular Balance Breakers become X Side, and previously unclassified forms such as Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive, Cardinal Crimson Promotion, Malebolge Vritra Promotion and Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast enter the Abyss Side category, with the mention that Cardinal Crimson Promotion, Malebolge Vritra Promotion and Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast are also X Side.

First of all, the "irregular balance breakers" you described are literally just subspecies. There's a reason why there isn't a single X Side that exists that isn't a subspecies.
Are you saying that Balance Breakers can be of more than 1 side? What would be the point of X Side then if Crest Side is the same thing?
Imo, Crest Side should be strengthened versions of the Basic Sacred Gear like the BxB of Divine Dividing, Boosted Gear, Twilight Healing, and Forbidden Balor View. Abyss should be fusions like Chaos Break, DxD, and JD. And X should be subspecies. And neither CxC nor MVP or Abyss Side, they don't fuse with the user, Juggernaut Drive, Vritra Promotion, and DxD are Abyss Side.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

OUGH!!!POMOIAHFOIHNUI!H#OIJ!)#!@!!!

Alright took a skimming and took a skimming, and a skimming of all of this:

Cosmology looks great for the most part. Do agree that IDK about really have Dimension Lost/Innovate Clear stuff on there as I would have figured it'd be for things actually constant to the verse like the Human World, Underworld, Heaven, the various Mythos worlds, etc.

About the dimensional gap stuff, I always figure there's at least just one since it's just easier for me to process it and all. Never really thought if ExE and FxF had their own or not. We seriously need Shin 5+ out for this shit, gdi owo.

Sure on the various weapons if you want. Nasuland has done that. Maou Gakuen has Anos's sword, same for Link's Master Sword. There's even pages for things like the Infinity Stones from Marvel comics and MCU, various pages of Thor's Mjolnir from various works that he's appeared in, Sonic vers's Chaos Emeralds...quite a whole lot really. So if you guys want, we could make pages like Excalibur or any of the Sacred Gears. I'm kinda neutral on the making of them.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

OUGH!!!POMOIAHFOIHNUI!H#OIJ!)#!@!!!

Real

Cosmology looks great for the most part. Do agree that IDK about really have Dimension Lost/Innovate Clear stuff on there as I would have figured it'd be for things actually constant to the verse like the Human World, Underworld, Heaven, the various Mythos worlds, etc.

Thanks

About the dimensional gap stuff, I always figure there's at least just one since it's just easier for me to process it and all. Never really thought if ExE and FxF had their own or not. We seriously need Shin 5+ out for this shit, gdi owo.

Same

Sure on the various weapons if you want. Nasuland has done that. Maou Gakuen has Anos's sword, same for Link's Master Sword. There's even pages for things like the Infinity Stones from Marvel comics and MCU, various pages of Thor's Mjolnir from various works that he's appeared in, Sonic vers's Chaos Emeralds...quite a whole lot really. So if you guys want, we could make pages like Excalibur or any of the Sacred Gears. I'm kinda neutral on the making of them.

Working on one for all sacred gears which is the reason for the BxB discussion, make make one for Durandal/Ex Durandal/Durandal Replica at some point.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Balance Breaker Irregulars are mentioned from the beginning, Sword of Betrayer was listed as Balance Breaker Irregular before the new classification system is revealed that makes it X Side.

The subspecies Balance Breaker creates a form different from the original, taking shape and acquiring other abilities according to the wishes of its wielder. Therefore, subspecies Balance Breakers are considered to be more powerful than the original Balance Breaker.

The method of obtaining a subspecies Balance Breaker is currently unknown, but appears to involve the personality of the user, which is reflected in the abilities obtained from the Balance Breaker. Certain expert Sacred Gear users have also demonstrated the ability to control what abilities they can gain from their subspecies, although it mentions that they cannot make the ability too different from its original form.

Irregular Balance Breakers go further, they cannot be classified into any of the known categories, either due to a sudden change or because they are a combination of the known categories.
the examples are:
-Issei's Illegal Move Triaina and Cardinal Crimson Promotion are considered X Side since it is made possible thanks to the Evil Pieces.
-Genshirou's Malebolge Vritra Promotion is considered X Side because it is formed through the combination of his 4 Sacred Gears into one.
- Sword of Betrayer is considered X Side because he achieved it by fusing the Demon Swords of Sword Birth and the Holy Element of his friends from the Holy Sword Project.
-Forbidden Invade Balor the Beast is considered X Side for having Balor's power

Abyss Side are evolutions of Balance Breakers, described as if the user had broken their Balance Breakers and then reassembled them into a more powerful form.
-Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive is the evolution of Divine Dividing Scale Mail
-Cardinal Crimson Promotion is the evolution of Boosted Gear Scale Mail
-Perfectus Tenebrae Lykaon et Fortis Densus Laelaps is the evolution of Night Celestial Slash Dogs

In the case of Malebolge Vritra Promotion and Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, the process of "breaking and reassembling the Balance Breaker" appears to have occurred at the same instant they awakened the Balance Breaker.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Well, we can put the plateau stuff from @TotalMasterInfinity in a blog for evaluation.

There are a few more types of Sacred Gears mentioned in Slash Dog. You know, state change, evil spirit type (same as creature type), etc.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Balance Breaker Irregulars are mentioned from the beginning, Sword of Betrayer was listed as Balance Breaker Irregular before the new classification system is revealed that makes it X Side.

“This dragon arm? It’s Twice Critical, a very common Sacred Gear, but mine is a little different, since it’s a subspecies. It grows something like a dragon’s arm from my back.”

—Twice Critical! I’ve heard of it! It’s an inferior Sacred Gear ranking below my Boosted Gear. A Sacred Gear that should be in the shape of a gauntlet... A subspecies! Growing an arm out of one’s back! Siegfried held two Demonic Swords in each hand, with the arm on his back holding a third. ...A three-sword stance! Witnessing this scene, Kiba’s expression became even more serious.

“...We are both Sacred Gear users. However, even ignoring the attributes of his swords, am I unable to surpass him even in the use of the Sacred Gear...?”

“By the way, I haven’t entered Balance Breaker yet.”
“This is my [Chaos Edge Asura Ravage]. As the subspecies of Twice Critical, the Balance Breaker is also a subspecies. The power is simple; multiplying arms. A useful enough ability for one like me, who only uses technique and Demonic Swords to fight. Let’s see how well you two can keep up.”
Ah, if I remembered correctly, that sword was an irregular form for a Sacred Gear since that Balance Breaker was an impossible phenomenon originally. Well, wanting to investigate would be natural.

Got a better understanding now, X sides are non subspecies sacred gears that become subspecies balance breakers (or things like CxC that are user dependent, non fusion evolutions to Crest Sides). I didn't get this at first as I thought only the BxB could be a subspecies but the base can be as well. So a regular sacred gear would become an X side Balance Breaker is a subspecies. So Polar Night Longinus Chakravartin would be an X side like I said earlier as it's a subspecies BxB to a normal Longinus. (True Longinus Götterdämmerung is the normal Crest Side.)

The subspecies Balance Breaker creates a form different from the original, taking shape and acquiring other abilities according to the wishes of its wielder. Therefore, subspecies Balance Breakers are considered to be more powerful than the original Balance Breaker.

The method of obtaining a subspecies Balance Breaker is currently unknown, but appears to involve the personality of the user, which is reflected in the abilities obtained from the Balance Breaker. Certain expert Sacred Gear users have also demonstrated the ability to control what abilities they can gain from their subspecies, although it mentions that they cannot make the ability too different from its original form.

Irregular Balance Breakers go further, they cannot be classified into any of the known categories, either due to a sudden change or because they are a combination of the known categories.

There is no stated difference between the two, irregular balance breakers are once that normally don't belong to the sacred gear, just a subspecies evolution.
Normal Sacred Gear -> Normal Balance Breaker =Crest Side
Subspecies Sacred Gear -> Subspecies Balance Breaker =Crest Side
Normal Sacred Gear -> Subspecies Balance Breaker =X Side
Subspecies Sacred Gear -> Normal Balance Breaker =X Side

the examples are:
-Issei's Illegal Move Triaina and Cardinal Crimson Promotion are considered X Side since it is made possible thanks to the Evil Pieces.
-Genshirou's Malebolge Vritra Promotion is considered X Side because it is formed through the combination of his 4 Sacred Gears into one.
- Sword of Betrayer is considered X Side because he achieved it by fusing the Demon Swords of Sword Birth and the Holy Element of his friends from the Holy Sword Project.
-Forbidden Invade Balor the Beast is considered X Side for having Balor's power

The first one is correct at least, Forbidden Invade Balor the Beast is Aeon Balor's normal Balance Breaker so it is Crest Side.

Abyss Side are evolutions of Balance Breakers, described as if the user had broken their Balance Breakers and then reassembled them into a more powerful form.
-Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive is the evolution of Divine Dividing Scale Mail
-Cardinal Crimson Promotion is the evolution of Boosted Gear Scale Mail
-Perfectus Tenebrae Lykaon et Fortis Densus Laelaps is the evolution of Night Celestial Slash Dogs

One Balance Breaker can't be multiple sides first of all, not sure where you got that from. Can a person simultaneously be on the left and right hemispheres of the Earth? And it's noted that a fusion between the sacred gear and user is necessary as well as being greater than normal BxB for Abyss Side, (Jin fuses with Tobio), Issei turns into a Dragon (DxD and JD)
I heard Shalba's scream. When I turned around, Ise-kun who turned into a miniature dragon is gnawing on Shalba's shoulder. A mouth-like thing appeared on his helm, so he must have bitten using that fang.

Munch Munch Munch Munch……

The sound of flesh getting torn apart.

“Damn you!”

Shalba creates a light with his right arm and tries to release it towards Ise-kun. But from one of the jewels, a dragon arm covered in red scales appears, and stops Shalba's right arm.

“Juggernaut Drive!? No, that’s completely wrong! Although it has the same organic change as the Juggernaut Drive, that ominous aura can’t be felt at all. Rather, the aura which rises out of its skin is…!”

Indeed, this wasn’t the Juggernaut Drive. But it did have the organic characteristic of Juggernaut Drive. Rizevim’s whole face was distorted.

“…What kind of a joke is this, this kind of thing? You’ve already reached this stage, yet you were still able to evolve…!”

Ddraig declared to Rizevim

[—Dragon Deification. This is the absolute power that only Ophis can bestow.]

Rizevim wouldn'tve noted the fusion with his sacred gear if it was the same as CxC (if CxC was abyss side).

Then, there was [Abyss Side], a phenomenon where the Sacred Gear and its user became one, which happened after the user polished themselves and the Sacred Gear to its limit, and if the user kept wishing for it.

In the case of Malebolge Vritra Promotion and Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, the process of "breaking and reassembling the Balance Breaker" appears to have occurred at the same instant they awakened the Balance Breaker.

Saji and Gasper are both very unique, the former has 4 Sacred Gears that are all necessary to form the one BxB. There is no BxB without all four. Therefore it is Crest Side as it's the natural evolution. And Gasper's sacred gear evolves into a subspecies in Volume 12, FIBtB is Crest Side but the one future Gasper uses is X Side iirc. And I'm not sure what that quote exactly proves. And Abyss Side would require the Crest Side/X Side to be unlocked first which neither Gasper nor Saji had done. (Same reason why Tobio's first BxB isn't Abyss Side but rather Crest Side even though Tobio and Jin fuse because both are requirements.)

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Crest Side description

The majority of Balance Breakers, including subspecies, could be classified as strengthening, evolving to a point of transformation

Abyss Side description

By pursuing the arrogance of themselves and the Sacred Gear, one would fuse together with their Sacred Gear to produce the Abyss Side. This was the type that Vali and Ikuse Tobio belonged to.

X Side description

Finally, there were those that couldn’t be categorised by this system due to their sudden variation, and those were the exceptions among exceptions. This was Hyoudou Issei, Kiba Yuuto’s Holy-Demonic Sword, Gasper Vladi, and Saji Genshirou

both Abyss Side and X Side

In particular, Hyoudou Issei, Gasper Vladi and Saji Genshirou had also reached the Abyss Side.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

X Side description

Doesn't really debunk anything I've said.

both Abyss Side and X Side

Juggernaut Drive/Diabolos Dragon God not CxC or IMT, the statement about Gasper was made before Aeon Balor was a thing and it's Balance Breaker wasn't decided yet as far as Azazel knew, if Forbidden Invade Balor the Beast was an evolution to FBV's BxB, then it would be Abyss Side and X Side as it would be a fusion, evolution, and unique. As of Volume 25 however, this is no longer the case as FIBtB is the only BxB for Aeon Balor. As for Saji, Vritra Promotion is X Side, Malebolge Vritra Promotion is Abyss Side. (The reason Saji was trying to "unlock" his BxB in V17 was the same as Issei in V5, they both previously had a BxB but they wanted to push it further and gain better control)

Edit: I know I keep changing my interpretation but hear me out. Might've made a slight error in thinking Abyss is necessarily a BxB evolution just because most we've seen were (although I could possibly still be right), but that doesn't mean they all are, but what I find strange is that if MVP could be considered X Side. If that is the case then why isn't EJOD X Side as well?

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

-Juggernaut Drive is not a Balance Breaker, it is a special/forbidden ability, it is considered a forbidden technique that temporarily removes the seal placed on the Heavenly Dragons.

-Diabolos Dragon God is the evolution of Cardinal Crimson Promotion, the form was literally originally called Cardinal Crimson Promotion: Diabolos Dragon, and Cardinal Crimson Promotion is the evolution of Boosted Gear: Scale Mail, it is the fact that both are improvements of the original BxB that which makes them Abyss Side, the fact of said evolutions are achieved with powers other than Sacred Gear (Evil Piece and Infinity) is what makes them X Side

-Vitra Promotion is not a Balance Breaker, it is a technique that allows Genshirou to take the form of Vritra and use his 4 Sacred Gear in unison, Malebolge Vrita Promotion is Genshirou's Balance Breaker and is both X Side and Abyss Side, It is X Side because it is a unique BxB for 4 different Sacred when the normal thing would have been for Genshirou to awaken 4 BxB, one for each of his Sacred Gear, without forgetting the fact that the reason it has the form of armor is because Genshirou once absorbed Issei's blood, it is Abyss Side because it is an improvement on whatever the original forms of Vritra's Sacred Gear BxB

-He would imply that any Aeon Balor wielder could awaken Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, which shouldn't be possible because Balor's power is something unique to Gasper.

-because Empireo Juggernaut OverDrive is an evolution of Divine Dividing: Scale Mail and nothing more, there are no foreign or strange powers in the mix. It is just the power of Divine Dividing taken to its extreme, Diabolos Dragon Lucifer would be an Abyss Side and X Side, because it is the evolution of Empireo Juggernaut OverDrive with the power of Lucifer

 

[MasqueTLDF]

-Juggernaut Drive is not a Balance Breaker, it is a special/forbidden ability, it is considered a forbidden technique that temporarily removes the seal placed on the Heavenly Dragons.

Yes an advanced version of the Balance Breaker, the Abyss Side. A fusion with the Sacred Gear achieved through arrogance, and a more advanced state.
"By pursuing the arrogance of themselves and the Sacred Gear, one would fuse together with their Sacred Gear to produce the Abyss Side."

[I, who is about to awaken…]

<It started.> <Looks like it will start.>

[Am the Heavenly Dragon that has stolen the principles of domination from God….]

<It was always like that, no matter what.> <That's not right; it was like that every time.>

[I laugh at the “infinite”, and I grieve at the “dream”….]

<The one the World seeks….> <The one the World rejects....>

[I shall become the Red Dragon of Domination…]

And as I've shown earlier, the user fuses with the Sacred Gear. And you literally admitted that EJOD is an Abyss Side and the only difference between the two is that one is controlled and one isn't.

-Diabolos Dragon God is the evolution of Cardinal Crimson Promotion, the form was literally originally called Cardinal Crimson Promotion: Diabolos Dragon, and Cardinal Crimson Promotion is the evolution of Boosted Gear: Scale Mail, it is the fact that both are improvements of the original BxB that which makes them Abyss Side, the fact of said evolutions are achieved with powers other than Sacred Gear (Evil Piece and Infinity) is what makes them X Side

Even if its name was originally that, they are obviously two separate things. And CxC is just an armor, nothing more, if it was an Abyss Side, Rizevim wouldn't have noted that the BG fused with Issei LIKE THE JUGGERNAUT DRIVE.

-Vitra Promotion is not a Balance Breaker, it is a technique that allows Genshirou to take the form of Vritra and use his 4 Sacred Gear in unison, Malebolge Vrita Promotion is Genshirou's Balance Breaker and is both X Side and Abyss Side, It is X Side because it is a unique BxB for 4 different Sacred when the normal thing would have been for Genshirou to awaken 4 BxB, one for each of his Sacred Gear, without forgetting the fact that the reason it has the form of armor is because Genshirou once absorbed Issei's blood, it is Abyss Side because it is an improvement on whatever the original forms of Vritra's Sacred Gear BxB

I literally proved it was, if Vritra Promotion isn't a Balance Breaker then neither is Downfall Dragon Another Armor, Forbidden Balor View's advanced sate from Volume 4, or Issei's Scale Mail in Volumes 2 and 4. The last one is inaccurate as Saji hadn't unlocked BxB for each SG and is there any evidence that the Vritra sacred gears had their own BxB?

-He would imply that any Aeon Balor wielder could awaken Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, which shouldn't be possible because Balor's power is something unique to Gasper.

"Any Aeon Balor wielder"? There's only one, Aeon Balor needs Balor within the user to exist as a Longinus, there's no previous precedent that would make Gasper's unique. If any sacred gear had only one user, the BxB would be Crest Side. Is Scale Mail an X side? Is Dmension Create X Side? Of course not because those are the standard Balance Breakers of those sacred gears.

-because Empireo Juggernaut OverDrive is an evolution of Divine Dividing: Scale Mail and nothing more, there are no foreign or strange powers in the mix. It is just the power of Divine Dividing taken to its extreme, Diabolos Dragon Lucifer would be an Abyss Side and X Side, because it is the evolution of Empireo Juggernaut OverDrive with the power of Lucifer

Just like Juggernaut Drive, "strange powers" have nothing to do with BxB side. It is an evolution to the BxB unique to Vali but it isn't considered an X Side because it's already an Abyss Side. No FRA, Diabolos Dragon Lucifer is not an evolution to EJOD, they are two separate abilities man.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

-Down Fall Dragon Another Armour

In front of the latter who had grasped something, the Governor of the Fallen Angels uttered words with power!

“Balance Break...!”

The vicinity was wrapped in a momentary flash. After the light faded—there was a person there wearing gold plate armour. It had a golden sparkling radiance and a form resembling that of a Dragon.

Bah!

Twelve jet-black wings unfolded from its back. Black feathers fluttered about the surroundings. The Dragon-imitating gold armour made its black wings flap. I thought it was a little cool. Azazel was equipped with Dragon armour! A huge spear of light was in his hands!

“I studied the Vanishing Dragon and other dragon-series Sacred Gears and produced this, my masterpiece artificial Sacred Gear. This is [Down Fall Dragon Spear] in its pseudo-Balance Breaker state, [rDown Fall Dragon Another Armour].”

I could feel a Dragon’s surge from beyond the armour. It wasn’t ordinary! A top-class powerful aura to the point of overwhelming was being emitted from his entire body that was above what I had felt up until now. It easily beat Kokabiel’s! Uoooh! It’s like a bargain sale of Balance Breakers! Wasn’t that a rare phenomenon!?

[No, that isn’t a true Balance Breaker.]

What do you mean, Ddraig?

[He made the Sacred Gear go into a Burst state and did a forced awakening. A kind of running out of control. The Sacred Gear will break after a battle with that. Does he intend to use that so-called artificial Sacred Gear as a disposable?]

-Juggernaut Drive

“Umm, back then, Vali was trying to do something, but what was it?”

I asked Azazel-sensei this. Before Vali left, he tried to do something. Though Albion also tried to restrain him from doing it…

“Ah, that was the [Juggernaut Drive].”

“Is it something above even the Balance Breaker?”

“No, there exists nothing above Balance Breaker. The ultimate and final form of Sacred Gears is the Balance Breaker. However, there are several things inside Sacred Gear that have a monster sealed in them. A peculiar restraint is applied on those ones. Your Boosted Gear and Vali’s Divine Dividing are examples of that.”

I see. Mine and his Sacred Gears are the type whose power comes from having a monster—in other words, a dragon - sealed inside it.

“Those ones are strongly restrained, taking out power while in that state and making sure that the host can use it. In the case of the Sacred Gears of the Sekiryuutei and the Hakuryuukou, forcing that restraint to temporarily release and unleashing the sealed power is the [Juggernaut Drive]. It temporarily gives one power rivalling that of God, but the risk is also huge. It greatly shaves off one’s lifespan. And it also makes one lose their sense of reason.”

-Vritra Promotion

“---! This abyss-black aura is!? Is it the ‘Prison Dragon’ Vritra!?”

Old-man Tannin shouts like that.

Vritra? It’s Saji! If you think about it, it certainly resembles Saji’s aura. But, that guy didn’t have any kind of fire.

A giant magic-circle which appears on the ground. From the centre of it, a black-flame shapes into a dragon.

[Hyoudou Issei-kun. Can you hear me? I am the Vice-Governor of Grigori, Shamhaza.]

-!

I heard an unfamiliar voice from the microphone I have on my ear for emergency. Oh, he’s the person who is from the same place as Azazel-sensei.

“Ah, hello. The one who sent that big black-dragon was you Shamhaza-san?”

[Yes. I was told by Azazel that I have to send Saji-kun to that location after Saji-kun’s training was completed.]

“So that really is Saji!?”

Oh man, he’s like a fire-dragon. He’s pitch black. It seems like a black-fire is in the shape of a dragon. So that’s Vritra.

[Yes, it seemed like Azazel made a bit of a miscalculation. We started his training, but he ended up in a state like that. The time was up, so we sent him in that state. Well, it seems like he can tell apart from an ally and a foe.]

And you gave that as an okay!? Hmm. Fallen-angels are quite daring.

“What did you do?”

[We put every Vritra-type Sacred Gear on him.]

You guys did something so reckless like that…..

I just made a forced smile and the Vice-Governor-san continues.

[When Vritra was exterminated and then sealed into the Sacred Gear, he had his soul split into many layers. Because of that, there are many Vritra-type Sacred Gear possessors. But if you were to group them, there are four types of [Absorption Line], [Blaze Black Flare], [Delete Field], and [Shadow Prison]. These Sacred Gears were hidden within each possessor and had some differences. And our organisation, Grigori, retrieved them and put the Vritra-type Sacred Gears that we kept into Saji-kun. Being in contact with you resulted in Vritra’s consciousness to slowly appear, so Azazel predicted that all of the Vritra-type Sacred Gears might be able to become one.]

I see, that’s why Sensei took Saji with him.

[As a result, the Sacred Gears combined and Vritra’s consciousness was revived. –But it seems like it became berserk because it only revived just now. But it seems like Saji-kun’s consciousness is still in there, so he should respond if you talk to him through Ddraig. So I leave the rest to you. Will you be able to do it?]

It is not said anywhere that Vitra Promotion is a Balance Breaker
in fact this is Genshirou entering Vritra Promotion:

Saji's body was surrounded by tall, black flames. And then, the flames began to spread outward and grew increasingly bigger in size.

"Vritra Promotion!"

The flames reached up into the sky! The jet-black flames gradually shaped into a body, forming a long, serpentine, oriental dragon.

Roar!

The massive black Dragon roared, facing the Kyuubi leader. Saji had successfully transformed into the Dragon King. The black flames arranged themselves into a magic circle and began releasing a dark cloudy aura. It is said that there are many strange components to Vritra's powers, and some of them were used to great effect during the battle against Loki.

Malebolge Vritra Promotion/Genshirou entering Malebolge Vritra Promotion

[ "Balance Break!" ]

The black aura explodes, and the one that appears is my pal that is covered in jet-black armour! He has lots of tentacles-like things growing out from his armour and they have jet-black flames ignited.

Saji who has just reached Balance Breaker shouts.

[—"Malebolge Vritra Promotion". I—no, we who are like the flames of Hell. Which one is stronger between our black flames and your purifying purple flames? Let's have a battle to decide it!]

Saji's voice is mixed with Vritra's. Now I understand, those two fused! They were able to reach it because the thoughts of those two became one! So there's also a Balance Breaker like this!?

-You realize that by saying that Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast is a Crest Side they are saying that it is Aeon Balor's normal BxB and therefore, any future user of Aeon Balor should be able to awaken Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, which returns to Aeon Balor a Longinus is his space-time abilities with the potential to kill gods, Balor has nothing to do with them, Balor is the source of the True Darkness and the Forbidden Night that Gasper uses who in turn is in Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, if Gasper dies Aeon Balor will pass to the next user and he will be able to use the space-time powers of the basic form, what he will not be able to use are the powers of the True Darkness and the Forbidden Night and therefore will not be able to use Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast will awaken his own Balance Breaker which could be the original form of Aeon Balor's Balance Breaker without Balor's Power

-Diabolos Dragon Lucifer is the fusion of the powers of Albion and Lucifer of Vali, we literally see that when the form awakens, his Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive armor transforms into that of Diabolos Dragon Lucfier, DxD Lucifer does not appear from nowhere, it emerges from Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive by fusing the power of Lucifer in with the power of Albion in It.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

-Down Fall Dragon Another Armour


-Juggernaut Drive


-Vritra Promotion

It is not said anywhere that Vitra Promotion is a Balance Breaker
in fact this is Genshirou entering Vritra Promotion:


Malebolge Vritra Promotion/Genshirou entering Malebolge Vritra Promotion

None of these disprove what I said before. Vritra promotion is a pseudo Balance Breaker just like issei's imperfect BxB but they are still both considered balance breakers.

-You realize that by saying that Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast is a Crest Side they are saying that it is Aeon Balor's normal BxB and therefore, any future user of Aeon Balor should be able to awaken Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, which returns to Aeon Balor a Longinus is his space-time abilities with the potential to kill gods,

Correct.

Balor has nothing to do with them, Balor is the source of the True Darkness and the Forbidden Night that Gasper uses who in turn is in Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast, if Gasper dies Aeon Balor will pass to the next user and he will be able to use the space-time powers of the basic form, what he will not be able to use are the powers of the True Darkness and the Forbidden Night and therefore will not be able to use Forbiden Invader Balor The Beast will awaken his own Balance Breaker which could be the original form of Aeon Balor's Balance Breaker without Balor's Power

You're conflating Forbidden Balor View with Aeon Balor, the former resides within the eyes and is the ability to stop time for the users field of vision. Its Balance Breaker allows the user to increase the range of the time stop to be outside of that field of vision. Aeon Balor is a different sacred gear, a subspecies that only exists due to Gasper being born with Balor and Forbidden Balor View and experiencing trauma to unlock it, it has the same basic abilities of Forbidden Balor View but with the addition of being able to create a field of darkness and dark beasts. Forbidden Invade Balor the Beast allows the user to create eyes from the darkness and use them to stop time as well as covering their own body with darkness. As a result of Aeon Balor's existence literally being tied to Balor, in order for a new user of Aeon Balor to awaken, Balor would need to occupy a different Forbidden Balor View user. And as Forbidden Invade Balor the Beast is the subspecies Balance Breaker of this line of sacred gears (as explained with the Siegfried quote) it would subsequently be the default BxB, or Crest Side. Aeon Balor does have an X side Balance Breaker being the one used by Future Gasper in EX. There is no Aeon Balor without Balor.

-Diabolos Dragon Lucifer is the fusion of the powers of Albion and Lucifer of Vali, we literally see that when the form awakens, his Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive armor transforms into that of Diabolos Dragon Lucfier, DxD Lucifer does not appear from nowhere, it emerges from Empiero Juggernaut OverDrive by fusing the power of Lucifer in with the power of Albion in It.

And I could literally say the same about Juggernaut Drive, Issei goes into the form from BxB and he can do it in base. And just like how Issei can use DxD without using CxC first, Vali can do the same, your "evidence" is honestly very shaky. It's never stated that DxD is a direct evolution to either CxC or EJOD and it wouldn't even make sense anyway as CxC and EJOD are very different. And before you say that DxD G and L are different, the only difference is one having infinity and the other not. The "power of lucifer" isn't an actual thing, it's just Vali drawing out all of his potential energy as was established in Volume 4 and 5, Vali has large reservoirs of demonic power because of his heritage, it's not an actual ability.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I'm tired of this nonsense, do what you want, I don't care anymore.