Heart of the Crystal gems upgrades (part 1?)

[Antoniofer]

Its fine for me.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually, this gave me an idea.

Should the Cluster have a seperate key for "Partially Formed", where it scales off of the Dropship Arms and the Diamonds (basically the arm shown in Reunited)?

 

[Chartate101]

I think it should

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I believe it should scale. Gems can shape shift their form, they don't lose power depending on the form they take on. The cluster formed into an arm, It's power is within it.

Also, if a character arm wrestles superman, wouldn't they scale to super man's strength? not just a portion of it.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mean, it didn't seem to fully manifest. It didn't shapeshift it's form, it just prevented itself from completely manifesting so it didn't, y'know, blow up the entire planet.

Otherwise the Arm Dropships would be Dwarf Star level (it wasn't Yellow who fought it, just the ship until she came out) and by extension Jasper (for surviving the explosion of a Dropship, which took nearly all of the arms's energy to do to yellow's), and subsequently scale to most of the entire verse. At that point I'd call it an outlier if you want to say the arm had the power of the full cluster.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Just to add to my comment, after fighting one ship and beating, the cluster was destabalizing. If it was only using it's portion of it's power, it would still be able to stay after that fight. Fighting that ship, took everything it had. I say it makes sense to say the cluster concentrated it's entire power into that arm to fight the Diamond ship.

And I wouldn't go to say that scales to Jasper. We cannot assume that the Jasper's ship had the same power and durability as the Diamond's ship.

 

[Tsubasa16]

Not disagreeing, but the ship that Jasper tanked was not even close to the Diamonds's ship, it was just an ordinary gem ship.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That's a fair assumption.

I still feel like the Cluster using its full power still doesn't make much sense. The destabalization wasn't probably from taking damage, but the cluster controlling itself and preventing itself from destroying the entire environment.

It's pretty clearly stated a full manifestation of the cluster would destroy the planet, I feel like it's better to assume that this wasn't a full manefestation, as making geo-weapons would kind of be pointless if you had Dwarf Star dropships under the control of the diamonds.

 

[Phoenix821]

I mean maybe someone could calc how much energy would be required to make the arm?

 

[Chartate101]

I don't think that could be calced

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The cluster was explained as an experiment by the Diamonds and in my opinon a more personal middle finger to the planet earth. The diamonds wouldn't be using their own personal ships for every confrontation.

Also, even if we don't scale the ships to the full cluster, it's still be a tier jump. It will be like exodia, and have six parts, the head, the arms, the body, the legs. And 1/6th of theclusters power should at least be large planet. (just a rough estimate lol)

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That kind if makes the statement "Just another Geo-Weapon" odd. They've made Geo-Weapons after the Cluster, although to what extent is unknown. It's placement on Earth was a middle-finger, sure, but that doesn't mean the dropships should scale to it.

I feel like there is more loops in logic claiming "That arm had the full power of the cluster whose AP comes from a calc that was made based on its size" than there is "That arm had only a small portion of the cluster's power", as it's not destroying the entire planet just by forming, like many statements has supported.

I mean, it wouldn't scale to anything other than the ships even in that case, the Diamonds themselves never fought the Cluster, and I'm fairly certain surviving the ship crashing doesn't give Yellow/Blue a 1000x+ powerboost/dura boost.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I'm just advocating for the diamond's to have a seperate tier with their arm ships. I'm not saying any single person scales to the cluster or the arm ships.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That's a bit of a stretch. Considering we calced the Cluster's AP off of size, the arm would be by nature thousands/millions of times weaker. It's not really comparable to stuff like Exodia, since the arm is the size of a single cell compared to what we used to calc the Cluster's AP.

If you can calc the Arm's AP like we did the full cluster, you could use that.

 

[Kople700]

Should we add possible reistance to emphatic manipulation (Unaffected by blue's emphatic manipulation) onto lapis's page?

 

[Tipoima]

The Cluster was ridiculously restricted in that fight. It was much more concerned about using just enough power to not fully burst its bubble and not destroy the planet. That arm is at very most is maybe a millionth of its full power. Probably way lower.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It seems more just like a weakness for Blue to me, unless we usually treat stuff like that differently.

 

[Kople700]

Uhhh is the lapis edit cleared? Or..?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

IDK.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo Just saying, Yellow kinda tore through the hull of the ship when it crashed

And technically it is possible to get the AP of just the arm if we can fins roughly the size of it, and from the looks of it it should be solidly into tier 5

Also gotta love the direct confirmation from the diamonds that the Corrupting Light was meant to be an actual attack and not just hax

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Considering it was capable of pushing clouds on Earth when it was fired ''behind the moon''...yeah it being an actual attack makes a lot of sense.

 

[Jinx666]

It was meant to be an attack that wiped every gem off the surface of the planet

So its an attack that, like every other damn hax the diamonds have, specifically targets gems. It wouldnt be counted for against any other opponents.

Plus an attack could easily also mean it was the hax.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Jinx In the videos for the next episodes the Diamonds themselves state that they had no idea that the corrupting light did anything other than destroy Gems

 

[Jinx666]

They had no idea they were corrupting gems, but their initial plan for it was to wipe every gem off the surface.

Every Gem.

And that obivously means its yet another gem only attack, much like both of Blue Diamond and Yellow Diamond's powers, so its hax, and not actual AP, since it wont work on anything else.

And it was, there were no humans effected at all.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

How is it not AP when it obviously displayed energy to move entire clouds? No matter how you slice it, that requires astronomical amounts of energy, and thus, AP.

 

[Jinx666]

Again, heat could easily be used to disperse the clouds, since they would diverge away from it. And you know Steven Universe and their cloud moving, most of it is for visual effects. And apart from the miniscule mass photons have, the force it creates isn't the same as kinetic energy, and is always never considered due to its little effect, it was mere light and sound.

When this move literally doesn't harm anyone other than Gems in a hax-type way, you cant use that energy reading in order to say that this is their official AP, and they can now take on someone much higher, cause it was mere hax, aimed solely at gems, and literally nothin else being affected

 

[Antoniofer]

YD piercing throw a small section of a warship when it was alreasy partially bendered and shattered isn't impressive, and even if the warship as instact it doesn't make her stronger than the warship.

Take into acount that clouds are just condensed water, the attack could just evaporate them, and that do not change the fact that the attack is only letal for gems. Also, do not justify stats using a calculation that do not exist and/or has been rejected, wait for a new version of it.

As for the Cluster, using a part of your body will yield less than the yield it was calculed when being way bigger, you can calculate its AP via shear size if you want. And as I said before, the Cluster's calc is unnecesary highballed.

 

[Gojira1234]

I fully believe the Diamond's corruption attack was fully meant to nuke the Gems on Earth out of existence, but what if when it hit Rose's Shield, it deflected off kinda like a ripple effect, and that diluted the strength of the attack and instead corrupted the Gems.

To further add validity to this theory, remember way back in season 1 when the Crystal Gems were fighting Lapis and her water clones, and Steven whipped out his shield? When he blocked their attack, the shield made a noise, and the water clones destabilized and fell apart.

I dunno it's something to consider.

 

[Pepper14832]

But Pink Diamonds shield only protected Garnet and Pearl not the whole planet.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm... still confused about the calc Dark did about the AP of the cluster.

Why was the density of a gemstone used, when that's only in regards to the gem itself, and not the light projection form? Unless I'm missing something? Dwarf Star just seems way too high; I'd expect Large Planet for the cluster at the most, and breaking apart the earth while emerging is about the only solid feat/statement it has.

 

[Gojira1234]

But Pink Diamonds shield only protected Garnet and Pearl not the whole planet.

That's my point.

 

[Tsubasa16]

Could i change the information on the Diamonds's profiles from "Should be significantly more powerful than characters such as Lapis Lazuli, and likely fusions such as Malachite and Alexandrite, as well." to "Much more powerful than characters such as Lapis Lazuli, and fusions such like Malachite and Alexandrite, as well" as this was confirmed the last episode anyway, makes the AP look less "Suppositive"

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Because Mass Energy conversion, I guess? I wasn't okay with the calc being used since it was just a rough calc. The actual result should be lower.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The calc is linked to the page itself, and was used to determine its tier.

Probably needs to be re-evauluated, then, like Antoniofer said.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

It needs to be redone. It doesn't take in apart the hollowness or other variables.

Until then I think downgrading it to 5-B is fine.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

5-A due to Peridot claiming that at full size it would be far larger than the Earth

 

[AdamGregory03]

One thing I want to point out, and I apologize if this was already, but it seems like Blue's sadness aura only effects other Gems? Because in Reunited, Connie wasn't affected by it, whereas Steven was, but he's half-gem. Lars also wasn't affected by it in the Trial episode, but I kinda chocked that up to be because he was wearing a helmet at the time until now.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I thought she just said it was going to be bigger than the Earth, not far bigger. If she said far bigger, then I agree. Otherwise, at least 5-B.

@Adam. Makes sense, Gem abilities have been consistently shown to only made to affect gems anyway

 

[Tsubasa16]

Actually Connie was affected the second time Blue used the Aura, so it seems that while resistant, Humans can still be affected if the aura is strong enough.

 

[Tsubasa16]

And yes, Peridot specifically says that the Cluster will be "much, much bigger than the Earth." when it emerges