Hatchiyack and Broly should be upgraded to at least Galaxy level

[FateAlbane]

@John The actual matter is that you were using Herms' translation as an argument for tier 3 when Herms' translation actually goes hand in hand with the context Pritti has put it into and against the way you tried to present it as - and that's going by his own words.

 

[Mr_John_West]

@Sera Ex His translation doesn't clash with Pritti's idea, he simply changed it when he applied. In the link I posted above he outright says that the quote as he understood it was "the galaxy has fallen under a Super Saiyan attack". He said there that the Galaxy wasn't destroyed at all - he implies Broly may not even have gone around busting it but instead "wreaking havoc all over an area of the Southern Galaxy".
The OP is however taking it out of context to imply otherwise.

Maybe because Broly is destroying area by area, he isn't destroying a planet, he is destroying a galaxy. Another thing you need to also understand is that he was finished with it by the time Goku went to King Kai and talked to him as stated

Kaio: Mm. He's already finished tearing up the Southern Galaxy, and appears to be after my Northern Galaxy next.

You shouldn't ignore other statements

 

[Keiyu]

Herms is not an official translation anyway, just a really good translator who is right most of the time.

 

[FateAlbane]

As for proof... Most people on the thread already explained context, hows and whys and I even went to the trouble of getting the quote from the very translator you were mentioning to disprove that whole galaxy busting matter.

I've been here before however and I'm not up for debating why Broly shouldn't be tier 3 for a hundred replies or something.

Only thing I wanted to prove here was that Herms translation actually is supportive of the current tier and agrees with what Pritti has said, not the contrary. And that, I already did.

Neutral for the rest of the thread, as from this point onwards I don't feel like me being here will be solving anything any faster. Peace out.

 

[Jobbo]

Wait, I forgot about Goku shaking the afterlife, Kep was going to recalc it but it was dismissed because the result would be 3-B and thus an outlier. With this new info it wouldn't be an outlier at all.

 

[Mr_John_West]

@John The actual matter is that you were using Herms' translation as an argument for tier 3 when Herms' translation actually goes hand in hand with the context Pritti has put it into and against the way you tried to present it as - and that's going by his own words.

No it doesn't since Pritti is explaining an entirely different scene with Paragus talking to Vegeta where I am using King Kai and Goku quotes saying what happened towards the overall results.

Also, their are guides stating he destroyed the galaxy


"Broly was going to destroy all South Galaxies (Billions) "Laying waste to the South Galaxy/galaxies"
Your friend can also confirm this if you want.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15533&start=1060

Here is it being translated as well by Kanzenshuu co owner

"It's a description of the plot of Z movie 8, up to the point where Paragus tells them about this mysterious "Legendary Super Saiyan" who's been laying waste to the South Galaxy. "

 

[Sera_EX]

But Jobbo-sama, it was already debunked ;_;

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I saw somewhere that shaking the universe is 4-A.

 

[Mr_John_West]

Wait, I forgot about Goku shaking the afterlife, Kep was going to recalc it but it was dismissed because the result would be 3-B and thus an outlier. With this new info it wouldn't be an outlier at all.

Janemba warped the afterlife, Goku shaked the afterlife with his power just going SSJ3 (meaning his ki was spreading through the entire afterlife for it to have an affect on it)

 

[Jobbo]

The 4-A is what the profile is using right now,.

And the universe destroying statements haven't been debunked. If Goku's feat goes to 3-B they can both support each other and thus not be outliers.

 

[Mr_John_West]

Their is way too much evidence, from guides, to official word from the writer, to other characters within the same level warping a galaxy and more, too Broly destroying a galaxy in his weakest SSJ form. Don't see how much more evidence you really need on top of all this

Further confirmation with many gudies and official toei website

https://web.archive.org/web/20070320103458/http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/ptr/dragonball/movie/


A spacecraft land, Gohan and others who are viewing the cherry blossoms in a Metropolitan park. A sayian Paragus who had got off the spacecraft asks Vegeta to become the King of new planet Vegeta, and to defeat the legendary Supersayian who has been destroying the galaxies of the souther

Trunks,Gohan,Krillen,the turtle hermit and oolong also go on the spacecraft following Vegeta who had accepted. They go to the new planet."


"Legendary Super Saiyan" was destroying the galaxies the South. Apparently it possesses the power to destroy New Vegeta... "

source:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kami_sama_explorer/10150409105/in/set-72157636003754296

 

[Mr_John_West]

Goku Goes Super Saiyan 3 vs Janemba (HD)-0

Goku is shaking the universe by powering up, meaning his Ki is spreading throughout the entire afterlife and having an affect on it.
Also it should be noted that Janemba warped the afterlife and heaven, which was below the grand kai place and within the afterlife is the size of a universe

Heaven

Area: Afterlife

Special Characteristics: The world where dead good people reside.

Events: Goku practiced for the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai here. (Daizenshuu 4, p.73/ Daizenshuu 7, p.36)

Anime: Those sorted out as good people among the dead gather here. It is about as wide as the universe, and its entire surface is a field of flowers. "


And the anime confirms it


Db heave

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Found it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

>universal Toei Goku.

No.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Seriously, how in the loving name of god is RESTRICTED Broly performing a feat trillions upon trillions of times stronger than anyone is capable of until Kid Buu not an outlier?

"But Cal, you've asked this a handful of times before"

And I've never got an answer that satisfied me.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I haven't see this movie in ages, so forgive me if my memory is faulty, but I am pretty sure it is shown Broly has been ravaging the Galaxy and destroying Planets everywhere since childhood, before Paragus put the Mind-Controlling Crown on him, which seemed to be when he was already grown.


So I am not sure if 3-C / 4-A is valid since he did so in a period spanning years.

 

[ByAsura]

I believe we rate Cell as Multi-Solar System in the anime, since he's vastly superior to Large Star level+ first form Frieza and scaling to anime Kid Buu and Broly.

 

[Jobbo]

In the 69th Super Discussion thread Kep said that was a heavy lowball since Goku's shaking was far more intense than that calc assumed and that since it wasn't a vacuum it'd be more appropriate to use a real Earthquake's radiated waves.

Even at a mere magnitude 5 Goku's shaking would be high end 3-C and that's assuming a vacuum.

 

[AguilaR101]

The basic calculation for shaking the universe assume the lowest possible magnitude IIRC and it's high-end 4-A, so maybe the one in the janemba recalced with the portrayed effects could be higher.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think it is. All Broly does is blow up planets and stars. Honestly it's not even 4-A. It's High 4-C.

 

[Mr_John_West]

I haven't see this movie in ages, so forgive me if my memory is faulty, but I am pretty sure it is shown Broly has been ravaging the Galaxy and destroying Planets everywhere since childhood, before Paragus put the Mind-Controlling Crown on him, which seemed to be when he was already grown.

So I am not sure if 3-C / 4-A is valid since he did so in a period spanning years.

Broly destroying planets as a kid has nothing to do with the galaxy scene, the galaxy scene was after Paragus controlled him as an adult and planned for universal domination. And it was confirmed that a RSSJ Did it as King Kai and Goku confirmed that, meaning Broly never done it in the years.

 

[Mr_John_West]

I don't think it is. All Broly does is blow up planets and stars. Honestly it's not even 4-A. It's High 4-C.

No evidence of that, seeing how King Kai felt he can destroy his northern galaxy at the rate he is going and he finished when King Kai talked to Goku.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Jesus John context matters.

 

[Mr_John_West]

In the 69th Super Discussion thread Kep said that was a heavy lowball since Goku's shaking was far more intense than that calc assumed and that since it wasn't a vacuum it'd be more appropriate to use a real Earthquake's radiated waves.
Even at a mere magnitude 5 Goku's shaking would be high end 3-C and that's assuming a vacuum.

Plus you have heaven in the afterlife which is below the grand kai realm, and that is the size of the universe according to the anime and guides

 

[Mr_John_West]

Jesus John context matters.

I legit posted it like.............a million times, maybe a bit less

 

[Mr_John_West]

Hatchiyack warped space including a galaxy, feat is plain as day as well.

 

[Sera_EX]

I haven't see this movie in ages, so forgive me if my memory is faulty, but I am pretty sure it is shown Broly has been ravaging the Galaxy and destroying Planets everywhere since childhood, before Paragus put the Mind-Controlling Crown on him, which seemed to be when he was already grown.


So I am not sure if 3-C / 4-A is valid since he did so in a period spanning years.

Most logical.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ultima *sigh* ... Nah for that one. Broly started full-on destroying stuff and losing control when Paragus ordered him to with the control device. Not as a kid. So while 3-C is a huge nope, 4-A should be fair game.

At which point if people still try to disprove the 4-A which is pretty straightforward, I may start to believe you just have something against the character.

 

[AguilaR101]

What's there to prove it happened in years though? King Kai could notice namek being blown up in the other side of the galaxy and you're going to tell me he paid no attention to several dozen of stars being blown every second? I don't think people get how huge a galaxy is, not only would he need ludicrious speed to go to every star and destroy it individually, his age would stil result in him need to destroy multiple stars at once even if we assume he did that 24/7 since the day he was born.

 

[Sera_EX]

Or, he's just giving his piece and couldn't give a damn a out Broly either way? From what I know of Ultima, I'd say that's accurate.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Sera I sort of assumed the strikethrough and the "accusation" with 0 proof whatsoever coupled with Ultima being one of the closest users to me around was indication enough that it was a meme, but it seems I was wrong.

 

[Mr_John_West]

What's there to prove it happened in years though?
King Kai could notice namek being blown up in the other side of the galaxy and you're going to tell me he paid no attention to several dozen of stars being blown every second? I don't think people get how huge a galaxy is, not only would he need ludicrious speed to go to every star and destroy it individually, his age would stil result in him need to destroy multiple stars at once even if we assume he did that 24/7 since the day he was born.

It was confirmed that RSSJ Broly destroyed the galaxy by Goku, and he was doing it so fast that King Kai felt he can destroy his northern galaxy next, which is on the other side of the universe (I posted all the scans and translations for it). Broly never done it in years, that's just some fan theory from looking at Broly flash back despite Broly as a kid has nothing to do with the galaxy scene since that was after Paragus controlled Broly as an adult, as shown in the flash back. Broly finished the destruction when King Kai started talking to Goku. Broly done it at most within an hour, maybe far less since I doubt King Kai would wait an hour for Broly to finish as he quickly told Goku to come to investigate the moment.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Sera I sort of assumed the strikethrough and the "accusation" with 0 proof whatsoever coupled with Ultima being one of the closest users to me around was indication enough that it was a meme, but it seems I was wrong.

Nah. I was just teasing you. I'm sorry Feito, you know I love you x3

 

[Mr_John_West]

Anyways, I don't know what I can do more to prove the moment. Posted interviews, guides and the series itself with translations from herms etc. Even characters are strong as Broly preforming galactic level feats as shown on screen, in the end, believe what you want since that is basically the motto from what I see so far.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Sera Oof

No need to be, I could have added an extra "ovo" at the end just to be safe. lol

I deserve this

 

[FateAlbane]

All jokes aside, I'll just go ahead and side again with those against tier 3 for the reasons that really were explained above and throughout the thread.

I could count support and opposition so far but I'm pretty sure about 90% of those who replied don't agree with any context of tier 3 in which case I'll simply keep seeing where this goes.

 

[Neo_hakkaishin]

you know that (dragon ball only has 4 galaxyas) has already been denied, right? and that the northern galaxy, south etcetera, actually refers to the quadrants of the universe, where it contains several galaxies. In other words, brolly destroyed almost 1/4 of the universe (in other words, the world of the living). at least multgalaxy

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Broly and Kid Buu can only destroy the universe piece by piece with one galaxy at a time, and the galaxies each destroy fairly quickly, so significant degree of 4-A. Also for sure it's Massively FTL+ speed as well. But nothing higher than 3-C can be assumed, and even 3-C is questionable. Just go with 4-A.

 

[AKM sama]

Narrator: "The Southern Galaxy has fallen under Super Saiyan attack."

King Kai: "T-then the Southern Galaxy really is being...At this rate...even my Northern Galaxy will be destroyed."

Nothing points to the fact that Broly destroyed the South galaxy in a couple hours. It just means the South galaxy was being destroyed at a fast rate and if not stopped, even the North galaxy will get destroyed over time. Just that.

You need explicit evidence to support your notion. "Universal threat" statements are common and anybody who is high into 4-A and MFTL+ can be considered a huge threat to the universe.

 

[Udlmaster]

you know that (dragon ball only has 4 galaxyas) has already been denied, right? and that the northern galaxy, south etcetera, actually refers to the quadrants of the universe, where it contains several galaxies. In other words, brolly destroyed almost 1/4 of the universe (in other words, the world of the living). at least multgalaxy

If you're saying Broly destroyed Multiple Galaxies, and let's assume, to much doubt, this is true.

Then it would be a massive Outlier to everything else shown afterwards. Broly according to Toei isn't the strongest Movie Villian, Jejebubu (Janemba) is. And Jijujaja is no where near Multi-Galaxy level.

So, Broly "Muh Multi-Galaxy" thing is a Massive Outlier.

Even looking to the other Movies, the Hatchiyack who stole Christmas his best feat is warping a Galaxy. And that seems like an Outlier as well.

Most of all because literally what happens next is that he headbutts Piccolo and defeats the Z-Warriors, so unless the Z-Warriors somehow have Galaxy Level AP and Durability, Including Piccolo? And to show, Piccolo takes a kick through the Pipes. So, yeah, no.

Yeah, I don't see it.