Hatchiyack and Broly should be upgraded to at least Galaxy level

[AKM sama]

Didn't Geekdom say that him destroying the Galaxy itself was not real, i.e Broly is not even Solar System level?

Wut? No...

 

[LightinAnt]

Well not that Geekdom implied Broly isn't Solar System level, but that he implied that the scene and the statements are all wrong which would equate to him not even being 4-A for destroying it over time

 

[Sera_EX]

Didn't Geekdom say that him destroying the Galaxy itself was not real, i.e Broly is not even Solar System level?

Yes. Because if we go by the original Japanese version and ignore the subtitles, Broly only wrecked havoc across the galaxy and parts of the galaxy were later shown in the movie to still be intact.

I'm fine with the interpetation of 4-A, but if this invalidates that, then so be it.

 

[SomebodyData]

Nah, he later on agreed with Seth saying he is a galaxy buster over time in the comment sections of that video....

...Before he said that Broly should be 3-B for threatening the entire universe over time.

 

[Sera_EX]

Either way the film contradicts the author statements so, we can't use them

 

[SomebodyData]

With the context, technically its true, its just destruction over time.

 

[Sera_EX]

Mm hm.

 

[Sera_EX]

So... Broccoli will remain 4-A?

 

[SomebodyData]

Ye

 

[SomebodyData]

Though Hatchiyack's feat is interesting. Does anyone have a better rendition of him warping space?

 

[FateAlbane]

Though Hatchiyack's feat is interesting. Does anyone have a better rendition of him warping space?

There you go.

 

[SomebodyData]

So in the revised edition its just stars and planets. Still really impressive (And into 4-A ironically enough) but not 3-C.

 

[FateAlbane]

To be fair King Kai says, right after, that this may spell the end for the entire galaxy. But I'm neutral on this subject.

 

[Chartate101]

Thats like saying "destroy the world". It could mean kill everyone, life wipe, actually planet bust, etc

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I think this is more just over time, but a few seconds roughly; similar to Kid Buu's feat. So just an exponentially high 4-A, but no 3-C.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Chartate101 Why would Kai use "the end of the entire galaxy" to mean planet bust or life wipe? That would be outright disregarding feats to reduce a character's scale.

He is seen warping space, stars and stuff by being born. Someone says right after "This may be the end of the entire galaxy!"

Occam's razor tells me either he's destroying the galaxy over time or that his power can destroy the entire galaxy. Either works for me which is why I'm neutral if he gets rated 4-A or 3-C.

But saying someone warping space to that extent and dismissing it as a life wiping threat regardless of what's shown and said doesn't seem to add up to me.

 

[Chartate101]

Its a ******* comparison

Thats like saying "destroy the world". It could mean kill everyone, life wipe, actually planet bust, etc

Thats LIKE saying destroy the world. My point is that its a very ambiguous statement.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Char

But your comparsion doesn't work since there are no alternatives is what he's saying.

Also it stopped being ambiguous the moment we literally see the galaxy dissappearing.

 

[Chartate101]

I agree that it stopped being ambiguous when the galaxy is seen disappearing. I'm just saying the statement on its own is vague. It could mean individually destroy every planet in the galaxy, or every solar system or all at once

 

[Mr_John_West]

Why would king kai statement be over time though ? if that is the case than every statement in DBZ can indicate over time just because they have the power to destroy planets and stars, but the issue is comes down to why would they be specific about their destruction if weaker character can easily destroy more over time like Frieza destroying the universe etc.

The issue is how Broly destroyed the galaxy.

He even felt RSSJ Broly pace of destroying the southern galaxy would allow him to travel from the southern side of the universe to the northern side of the universe and destroy his galaxy.

Kaio, at the start: Then, the Southern Galaxy really is being…At this rate, even my Northern Galaxy will be destroyed!

Broly was destroying the galaxy as King Kai was watching. Plus it should be mentioned the galaxy was done before that visually from the outside


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/37144/4176752-6049957554-34062.gif


The issue here from this scene is that the whole galaxy goes in 1 motion, showing it was indeed one-shot from the middle, and even the sound doesn't break from it being destroyed.

If it was over time, it would be like Kid Buu destruction right here

Broly finished before King Kai talked to Goku http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26373&start=20

Kaio: Mm. He's already finished tearing up the Southern Galaxy, and appears to be after my Northern Galaxy next.

He never done it in years, in fact it was confrimed that RSSJ Broly did it and Goku confirmed it

Narrator, at the start: The Southern Galaxy has fallen under Super Saiyan attack

Kaio explaining things to Goku: Goku: The Southern Galaxy attacked by a Super Saiyan? Kaio: Mm. He's already finished tearing up the Southern Galaxy, and appears to be after my Northern Galaxy next.

Goku, when Broli powers up a bit during their first little fight: You're the one who destroyed the Southern Galaxy, ain't you Broli?


Goku, repeating himself shortly after the above: He's the Super Saiyan that ran riot through the Southern Galaxy!

The galaxy being destroyed wasn't random destruction, it was a calculated assault to fool Vegeta into believing into the LSSJ as they told him that the LSSJ appeared on planet Todokama. Paragus felt that if Broly wasn't under his control along with others







For Broly to destroy the universe over time, the entire universe as they are specific with it, he would have to be galactic levels of power since he is 30 at that time (being the same age as Goku) and saiyans live the same as humans. And seeing how RSSJ BRoly can destroy galaxies so fast King Kai felt he can go to his northern side of the universe and destroy his galaxy, along witht he writer thinking he can destroy galaxies + Hatchiyack from the orinigal OVA who warped space containing galaxies + King Kai stated about Hatchiyack can destroy the entire northern galaxy. Broly and Hatchiyack should be upgrade to At Least Galaxy level.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

If the above is true then he destroyed the galaxy in a very quick amount of time in comparison to what I believed.

 

[Neo_hakkaishin]

you know that (dragon ball only has 4 galaxyas) has already been denied, right? and that the northern galaxy, south etcetera, actually refers to the quadrants of the universe, where it contains several galaxies. In other words, brolly destroyed almost 1/4 of the universe (in other words, the world of the living). at least multgalaxy

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Hmm... I may need to watch the movie again to make sure of this... But this definitely does make a bit of sense. However, IF this is be accepted, this would be consistent with Omega Shenron's feat of being capable of destroying galaxies.

However, a question for you: Since Perfect Cell (Toeiverse) , SSJ2 Gohan (Toeiverse) , and the likes of those during the Buu Arc + above are implied to be at least > RSSJ Broly and likely LSSJ Broly ... What would we do about that ?

 

[Promestein]

"However, IF this is be accepted, this would be consistent with Omega Shenron's feat of being capable of destroying galaxies."

No, it wouldn't be. Omega Shenron is FAR superior to these two characters. He's far superior to characters far superior to characters far superior to these two characters.

I'd prefer MSS. Universe destruction over time feats are always vague, Hatchiyack's feat is 4-A, and Broly's onscreen feat is 4-A.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Idk how many galaxies are in DB, but to hit "universal over time" under normal cosmology you'd need to be 3-B. Even if you popped a galaxy every couple of days you'd spend millions of years (if not billions, I haven't calced it) popping galaxies.

I think the evidence points to Broly being 3-B.

 

[Promestein]

I think that's extremely inconsistent. A character much stronger than Broly and who stomps other characters far superior to Broly is only just hitting 3-B.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Also remember that canonically that SSJ2 level characters is far, far above the LSSJ Broly that appeared during Movie 8 . I'm not saying I agree with it (I'm Neutral here) , I just believe his feat may actually be 3-B and has a lot more going for it than before . Consistency is a whole different issue.. A whole different can of worms.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't know if I missed something, but couldn't destroying the entire Universe be hyperbolic? It was for Frieza, and he a few statements as well. Kid Buu is another case, since he could live forever.

 

[Promestein]

Super Buu too. With much better feats in the process.

 

[Mr_John_West]

you know that (dragon ball only has 4 galaxyas) has already been denied, right? and that the northern galaxy, south etcetera, actually refers to the quadrants of the universe, where it contains several galaxies. In other words, brolly destroyed almost 1/4 of the universe (in other words, the world of the living). at least multgalaxy

Maybe, it wouldn't surprise me at all because at times they mentioned it being galaxies.

Paragus stated this "The North Galaxy, and of course the Eastern and Western Galaxies, would be undivided under our rule, and an empire belonging to me and Broli would stand for eternity!"

 

[Mr_John_West]

"However, IF this is be accepted, this would be consistent with Omega Shenron's feat of being capable of destroying galaxies."
No, it wouldn't be. Omega Shenron is FAR superior to these two characters. He's far superior to characters far superior to characters far superior to these two characters.

I'd prefer MSS. Universe destruction over time feats are always vague, Hatchiyack's feat is 4-A, and Broly's onscreen feat is 4-A.

Hatchiyack feat should be far greater than 4 - A though as he warped space along with galaxies in the orinigal movie, and warped countless of planet and stars, I think even nebulas as well. Regardless, Hatchiyack old feat shouldn't be disregarded as it was the orinigal movie.

 

[Mr_John_West]

Also remember that canonically that SSJ2 level characters is far, far above the LSSJ Broly that appeared during Movie 8 . I'm not saying I agree with it (I'm Neutral here) , I just believe his feat may actually be 3-B and has a lot more going for it than before . Consistency is a whole different issue.. A whole different can of worms.

No evidence a SSj2 is greater than M8 Broly though, but that's another debate all together any ways. Gohan in Movie 9 wrecked Bojack who apparently wrecked the 4 quadrants in the past hence why he was sealed

 

[Mr_John_West]

I think that's extremely inconsistent. A character much stronger than Broly and who stomps other characters far superior to Broly is only just hitting 3-B.

GT is inconsistent though, even Janemba has better feats than Omega Shenron as he warped the entire after life into jelly beans. Plus Super Buu in the anime was going to destroy the universe by collpasing dimensions with his power. Wouldn't take scaling in GT seriously, Omega Shenron power is vastly unknown

 

[SomebodyData]

There is another thing we're forgetting, Broly's power increases a lot as he ages without training. Its entirely possible that he would have become 3-B naturally, just potrayed 4-A at the time.

 

[Mr_John_West]

There is another thing we're forgetting, Broly's power increases a lot as he ages without training. Its entirely possible that he would have become 3-B naturally, just potrayed 4-A at the time.

Doubt it, while he does increase in power as a LSSJ naturally, it does have it flaws as he had to release energy from his body to keep it stable, plus I don't think they looked into that hypothical situation, espically if they felt Broly before in his LSSJ form can destroy the universe.

 

[Mr_John_West]

I don't know if I missed something, but couldn't destroying the entire Universe be hyperbolic? It was for Frieza, and he a few statements as well. Kid Buu is another case, since he could live forever.

Frieza time span is unknown though and Kid Buu has been their from the very beginning (Lives forever), where with Broly he has 50+ years to destroy it as Saiyans timespan are the same as Humans and Broly was 30 years old at that time.

 

[SomebodyData]

I wasnt talking baout his LSSJ form, I was talking about how he went from 5-A to 4-A without training.

 

[Mr_John_West]

I wasnt talking baout his LSSJ form, I was talking about how he went from 5-A to 4-A without training.

Potential of a saiyan is the short answer, similar to how Gohan without training as a kid was already stronger than Goku as he can hurt Raditz just by getting angry

 

[ByAsura]

Frieza is implied to be a long-lived being, but that statement is still hyperbolic regardless, as they believe it's an immediate threat. Kid Buu awoke on Earth in Age 774 and can teleport with no known limitations after copying Kibito Kai's teleportation. Again, the statement could be hyperbolic, it was for Cell, and I think there's even one or two for Vegeta and Nappa.

 

[Mr_John_West]

Frieza is implied to be a long-lived being, but that statement is still hyperbolic regardless, as they believe it's an immediate threat. Kid Buu awoke on Earth in Age 774 and can teleport with no known limitations after copying Kibito Kai's teleportation. Again, the statement could be hyperbolic, it was for Cell, and I think there's even one or two for Vegeta and Nappa.

Kid Buu never had the teleporting technique before the fight with Goku, meaning he was flying around destroying planets etc, but according to an interview Kid Buu was their from the dawn of time. Cell can destroy a solar system, many guides confirm it + the series doesn't show any condradictions with it's statement, so over time he can destroy a universe but it depends on how long he can live for.