Hatchiyack and Broly should be upgraded to at least Galaxy level

[FateAlbane]

@Pritti I never argued for tier 3 instead of the current tier, my point was only that by your reply it made it seem like the feat couldn't even be considered for anything because it was something that could/would happen rather than something that outright did, as many verses get tiers based on a similar reasoning.

@Sera EX I take it as a support for 4-A. If we said every single feat that "could" happen but didn't because someone stopped it beforehand didn't count, we would be getting quite a number of characters being downgraded based on that skepticism. It's outright shown that it could happen in this case overtime.

 

[Mr_John_West]

Can you stop quoting and misinterpreting the movie.
Broly didn't one-shot it because in fact the galaxy isn't destroyed and he spent his whole life attacking it. No galaxy was destroyed. It's unbeliavable that this hoax is still perpetuated in 2018.

Also that's not a feat. That's just some flashy lights in the sky. No galaxies appear.

Want to prove I am misinterperting the movie by actually providing evidence ?

It was said a Super saiyan destroyed the southern galaxy,

Narrator, at the start: The Southern Galaxy has fallen under Super Saiyan attack

And that saiyan was confirmed to be RSSJ broly

Goku, when Broli powers up a bit during their first little fight: You're the one who destroyed the Southern Galaxy, ain't you Broli?

Paragus didn't have Broly destroy the galaxy until he controlled him as an adult where he finally decided he wanted universal domination. So no, Broly never done it over his life time, that's fan made theries which is debunked by the actual series itself.

And No galaxy was destroyed -.- what ? Goku said the galaxy was being destoryed, even paragus didn't mention the southern galaxy apart of the universal domination plan

Paragus, doing his James Bond villain monologue: The North Galaxy, and of course the Eastern and Western Galaxies, would be undivided under our rule, and an empire belonging to me and Broli would stand for eternity!


So that galaxy is a flashy light in the sky -.- regretting taking this seriously right now

 

[FateAlbane]

@John The "Destroying the galaxy" quotes don't count. As Pritti just explained those quotes don't exist in the original.

As for Hatchiyaki's case that does feel like special effects to me rather than an actual galaxy, especially when in the remaster they don't show any galaxy - instead just a bunch of stars and planets.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Fate

You don't need support for a stat that's already been applied, I said this much earlier in the thread. Broly has been 4-A for awhile now. The prolonged existence of this thread is because talk of 3-C and likely 3-B surfaced and that's what I don't want. If that's been declined, why is this thread still open?

 

[Mr_John_West]

The entire movie was to stop Broly from destroying the South Galaxy. In the film going by the original Japanese version without subs (the only version I've seen), they never said Broly destroyed the galaxy. They said he was rampaging throughout the galaxy and Kaiosama was worried that his galaxy was next.
The narration clearly stated The South Galaxy is under Super Saiyan attack. It did not say destroyed. It never said destroyed. Broly did not gradually destroy the galaxy either, the South Galaxy was still there, or at least parts of it. The entire goal of the film was preventing the total destruction of the South Galaxy.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26373&start=20

Narrator, at the start: The Southern Galaxy has fallen under Super Saiyan attack


Kaio, at the start: Then, the Southern Galaxy really is being…At this rate, even my Northern Galaxy will be destroyed!


Paragus, explaining stuff to Vegeta: He is wreaking havoc all over an area of the Southern Galaxy with his fearsome power. At his pace, even the New Planet Vegeta that we worked to establish will fall to the Legendary Super Saiyan…


Kaio explaining things to Goku: Goku: The Southern Galaxy attacked by a Super Saiyan? Kaio: Mm. He's already finished tearing up the Southern Galaxy, and appears to be after my Northern Galaxy next.


Kaio, shortly after the above: First go check the Southern Galaxy.

(Goku proceeds to teleport to a planet full of ruined buildings.)

Goku, when Broli powers up a bit during their first little fight: You're the one who destroyed the Southern Galaxy, ain't you Broli?


Goku, repeating himself shortly after the above: He's the Super Saiyan that ran riot through the Southern Galaxy!


Paragus: The North Galaxy, and of course the Eastern and Western Galaxies, would be undivided under our rule, and an empire belonging to me and Broli would stand for eternity!

(No mention of the Southern Galaxy.)


It was said to be destroyed by Goku, and King Kai said at the rate he is going he is going to destroy his northern galaxy next. These are all from the sub btw. Plus the writer thinks he can destroy galaxies


Shigeyasu Yamauchi : When I had to work on the Broly movie, I realized that he lacked something, although he is the most powerful Saiyan. It's this solitude of the powerful warrior that I wanted to retranscribe. He can destroy galaxies but is alone compared to Goku, whom he despises but has a family, just like Vegeta. When he loses at the end, he realizes that strength is not just physical, he would have been able to unlock another kind of power if he had something to protect for example."

 

[FateAlbane]

@Sera EX Of that I have no idea. Anyone who gets the general context of the movie should know that tier 3 is absolutely a no-go (and also inconsistent with other characters who are >>>>>>>> Broly in the series). Now with Prom and Pritti going as far as having explained that context on top of that, not sure why it's open, myself.

 

[Sera_EX]

That's not what the Japanese version actually said. They never said Broly destroyed the Galaxy.

 

[Mr_John_West]

Thank you...Pritti..
If you want to go by the eng subs or even the dub, fine, but don't pretend like the original version said he destroyed/gradually destroyed the South Galaxy. That's completely false.

But it did -.- I even posted the translations from herms himself saying that the galaxy has been destroyed in sub by Goku and King Kai

 

[Genericstickman]

Well now

 

[Mr_John_West]

It does, Fate. That's not a feat. It's just not. The entire film contradicts it.

Prove it, I watched the film a million times in sub, I own it, go ahead and prove how the movie condradicts it

 

[Sera_EX]

The term used is "µÜ┤ÒéîÕø×Òéï" or "Abare mawaru" meaning to "rampage", "go berserk", "riot", "go wild", etc.

She already did

 

[Mr_John_West]

@John The "Destroying the galaxy" quotes don't count. As Pritti just explained those quotes don't exist in the original.
As for Hatchiyaki's case that does feel like special effects to me rather than an actual galaxy, especially when in the remaster they don't show any galaxy - instead just a bunch of stars and planets.

What ?

Those are the orinigal sub quotes though lol I am not using Dub at all. Who said that the sub didn't say Broly didn't destroy the galaxy because he outright lied too you. I own the movie, I even posted herms translation of the sub for the movie.

 

[Pritti]

I have to go to school, I'm sorry but I won't be able to reply further after this post.

 

[Mr_John_West]

That's not what the Japanese version actually said. They never said Broly destroyed the Galaxy.

Goku, when Broli powers up a bit during their first little fight: You're the one who destroyed the Southern Galaxy, ain't you Broli?

https://pm1.narvii.com/6536/d2157bc2462ac2b5a37b0418c6a3288c650a843a_hq.jpg


Kaio, at the start: Then, the Southern Galaxy really is being…At this rate, even my Northern Galaxy will be destroyed!

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111223567/4710440-8223336466-13544.jpg

That's clearly wrong as it did state it twice

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Person who actually speaks Japanese > Person who's using fansubs that may be innacurate.

 

[Sera_EX]

You're still going by subs.

 

[FateAlbane]

@John Considering how that is an infamous mistranslation and how Pritti took the literal spoken quote and presented that the quote has an entirely different meaning from what they translated it as in the subs...?

I'd say I wasn't lied to. And as it was already said before, tier 3 would also be inconsistent with characters stronger than Broly in the series.

I simply don't see eye to eye with that idea.

 

[Sera_EX]

Who is Herms? I hear that name a lot...

 

[Mr_John_West]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26373&start=20

So Herms is inaccurate ?

He translated those as shown in the link in the first post shown. Broly destroyed the galaxy, even the official sub for the movie says the same thing. So clearly your friend is lying to you

Herms translated everything DB related, pretty well known in the DB community

 

[FateAlbane]

yawns* Anyways, I'm sort of tired and I've seen this matter being discussed so many times already in the past, I'll just go ahead and leave the thread to those more used to the matter at hand. o/ Whatever happens, happens.

 

[Sera_EX]

She is not lying...

"He is wreaking havoc all over an area of the Southern Galaxy with his fearsome power. At his pace, even the New Planet Vegeta that we worked to establish will fall to the Legendary Super Saiyan…"

That's exactly what she said by "rampaging".

 

[Mr_John_West]

@John Considering how that is an infamous mistranslation and how Pritti took the literal spoken quote and presented that the quote has an entirely different meaning from what they translated it as in the subs...?
I'd say I wasn't lied to. And as it was already said before, tier 3 would also be inconsistent with characters stronger than Broly in the series.

I simply don't see eye to eye with that idea.

Cause other people who understand Japanse like Herms stated the same thing the series said in the subs after he translated it, I even posted the link and that's assuming your friend even translated the right scenes saying that Broly destroyed the galaxy.

Like who though ? Hatchiayck preformed a similar feat, Bojack in the past destroyed the 4 galaxies, and Broly did it in the movie, I see nothing inconsistent so far.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's really rich how Dragon Ball fans treat Herms as an infallible unquestioning god when it comes to translations. He can easily be innacurate. I'd trust someone who has japanese as their first language more.

 

[Mr_John_West]

She is not lying...
"He is wreaking havoc all over an area of the Southern Galaxy with his fearsome power. At his pace, even the New Planet Vegeta that we worked to establish will fall to the Legendary Super Saiyan…"

That's exactly what she said by "rampaging".

Bro -.- your using a different scene, your using the scene where Paragus is talking to Vegeta, I am using the scene where King Kai sees the galaxy being destroyed and Goku fighting RSSJ Broly. The galaxy was destroyed as stated by King Kai and Goku, Broly was rampaging through the galaxy of course since he was destroying it.

 

[Mr_John_West]

It's really rich how Dragon Ball fans treat Herms as an infallible unquestioning god when it comes to translations. He can easily be innacurate. I'd trust someone who has japanese as their first language more.

-.- but your friend wasn't even talking about the scenes where they said he destroyed the galaxy though, another scene was mentioned entirely. Fact is, herms translated it and said he destroyed the galaxy twice, and another writer of the movie said he can destroy galaxies.

 

[Sera_EX]

I'm not a "bro" first of all...

And second, King Kai didn't even say the South Galaxy was destroyed.

"Then, the Southern Galaxy really is being…At this rate, even my Northern Galaxy will be destroyed!"

The South Galaxy is being...what? Being destroyed because Broly is rampaging.

Plus, the fact that Paragus said Broly is wreaking havoc across a part of the South Galaxy confirms the galaxy wasn't destroyed. It's being terrorized.

 

[Mr_John_West]

I'm not a "bro" first of all...
And second, King Kai didn't even say the South Galaxy was destroyed.

"Then, the Southern Galaxy really is being…At this rate, even my Northern Galaxy will be destroyed!"

The South Galaxy is being...what? Being destroyed because Broly is rampaging.

You basically just repeated my point eariler when I mentioned this a million times before. He said his northern galaxy will be destroyed, if his northern galaxy will be destroyed Broly is clearly destroying the southern galaxy.

We are arguing whether he destroyed it, King Kai thinks he destroyed it and feels he can do more. Goku confirms it

And yes, that would mean he is rampaging as well since he is destroying the galaxy -.-

 

[FateAlbane]

It's really rich how Dragon Ball fans treat Herms as an infallible unquestioning god when it comes to translations. He can easily be innacurate. I'd trust someone who has japanese as their first language more.

I almost forgot to say this before I left but, in Herms defense, I'm not sure why his word is being used here as an argument to imply the tier 3 when his opinion on the movie actually points in the same direction of the galaxy being destroyed overtime and still being there at the time of the movie.

He translated it like that in the subs but said 100% that the Galaxy was very much still there and being destroyed over time. Not sure why he is being used here as support for tier 3 reasoning.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And that does not mean it is instantaneous Simply 4-A as it is an overtime destruction.

 

[FateAlbane]

In other words it's not that Herms badly translated anything or is not reliable, more like the OP is implying he said things/gave the movie a context that he didn't, really.

 

[Jobbo]

Forget about the galaxy thing, the more important thing is the four universe destroying statements Broly and Hatchiyack have. Also, the 2010 remake is no more relevant to the Toeiverse than Kai, perhaps even less so since it's just a video game bonus.

 

[Mr_John_West]

It's really rich how Dragon Ball fans treat Herms as an infallible unquestioning god when it comes to translations. He can easily be innacurate. I'd trust someone who has japanese as their first language more.

I almost forgot to say this before I left but, in Herms defense, I'm not sure why his word is being used here as an argument to imply the tier 3 when his opinion on the movie actually points in the same direction of the galaxy being destroyed overtime and still being there at the time of the movie.
He translated it like that but said one 100% that the Galaxy was very much still there and being destroyed over time. Not sure why he is being used here as support for tier 3 reasoning.

I am using herms translation, not his argument as it's a fan arguement like everyone else. He thinks he done it over time but that's condradicted when it was confirmed a Super Saiyan did it and that Saiyan was RSSJ Broly as confirmed by Goku, also Broly did it after being controlled by Paragus. He also doesn't know that planets left over is apart of the plan for Paragus to fool Vegeta into believing the LSSJ is out their, hence why he fooled him into thinking that the LSSJ appeared on planet Todokama in order to stay long enough so that the comment can end Vegeta since he wanted revenge on King Vegeta for what he did to Broly and Paragus.

Here is the thing, Paragus never got the idea of destroy the galaxy until he controlled Broly which was when he was an adult. The Galaxy destruction scene was a set up for Vegeta to believe in the legendary super saiyan. It's calculated plan, not random destruction. This is why herms is wrong here with his interperation of the galaxy scene.

Herms translation are good, otherwise his opinions are just as good as any other fan.

 

[Sera_EX]

I don't who Herms is... But I'm sure he translated whatever he did pretty well...translating is hard.

But Pritti is a native Japanese and she deconstructed the Japanese term used to describe what Broly is doing (present tense) to the South Galaxy and that is "Abare mawaru" meaning to "rampage".

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I'm with Matthew here, tier 3 is wank.

 

[ByAsura]

@Sera I can't remember the exact video, but I believe Geekdom said his family is Japanese and he speaks it fluently. Don't quote me on that though, my memory is highly inconsistent.

He also corrects Viz translations, translates a lot of things on twitter, and apparently translated a lot more.

Edit: It was "Julian" who has the family, I'm not sure if Herms does too, but apparently Hermse speaks it fluently and might have studied abroad.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Sera Ex His translation doesn't clash with Pritti's idea, he simply changed it when he applied. In the link I posted above he outright says that the quote as he understood it was "the galaxy has fallen under a Super Saiyan attack". He said there that the Galaxy wasn't destroyed at all - he implies Broly may not even have gone around busting it but instead "wreaking havoc all over an area of the Southern Galaxy".

The OP is however taking it out of context to imply otherwise.

 

[FateAlbane]

@John In other words you ignore every single word of context from Herms when it doesn't align with the tier you want Broly to be...

...But take his every word outside of the context as he himself has put it, like word of god, if it aligns with the higher tier you think Broly should be.

...Ooook.

 

[Mr_John_West]

The galaxy goes in 1 motion though, Broly could very well one-shot the thing and left a few planets left over so Vegeta can waste his time chasing the legend as they fooled him into thinking the legendary super saiyan was on planet Todokama.

I watched the movie a million times, I own it. A lot of people don't know that the galaxy wasn't random destruction but a calculated plan to fool Vegeta in order to get revenge, otherwise destroying the galaxy was useless since Paragus wanted universal domination as stated here (translated by herms)

Paragus : The North Galaxy, and of course the Eastern and Western Galaxies, would be undivided under our rule, and an empire belonging to me and Broli would stand for eternity!

Paragus said this when Goku exposed him (Before Broly going LSSJ)

 

[Sera_EX]

@Fate oh I'm sure.

 

[Mr_John_West]

@John In other words you ignore every single word of context from Herms when it doesn't align with the tier you want Broly to be...
...But take his every word outside of the context as he himself has put it, like word of god, if it aligns with the higher tier you think Broly should be.

...Ooook.

-.- it's amazing how now just because I use official translation from the movie but I don't agree with a fan interpertation of the moment that automactically equates to me misinterperting the scene.

Do you want to prove that I saying false things ? I told you, explained it to you what the galaxy scene was but you say I am taking things out of context, cool, do you mind showing where I said something that was wrong ?