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Grasp heart revision

It looks like abstract, cus it has no relation either to the soul or to biology, as the definition that this site gives it.
 
Why do we have so much variety on spells of the "instant death" kind...if they all work the same with literal instant death in mind with no regards to how the spell is represented or shown to work in the first place?
 
It's simple. The GH secondarily stuns, if the target somehow resist effect that causes death. Cry of the Banshee has a wide AOE zone. Death can also be activated with a thought.
 
Yomi Schwarz said:
Why do we have so much variety on spells of the "instant death" kind...if they all work the same with literal instant death in mind with no regards to how the spell is represented or shown to work in the first place?
Click to expand...
Because side effect. And the way how it's work. Aoe, target, touch, aura.
 
Ainz in the new world is Paranoid as hell and will not under any circumstances if there's any doubt, let his opponent attack first. The only times he's shown to let the enemy attack first is when he's absolutely sure his opponents pose no threat to him. So all this talk about "He lets his opponent go first" is stupid since he's a PvP player anyways, and in PvP inside MMOs, as a MMO Nut myself, that is easily the most ******** thing you can do.
 
Maraderchik said:
Yomi Schwarz said:
Why do we have so much variety on spells of the "instant death" kind...if they all work the same with literal instant death in mind with no regards to how the spell is represented or shown to work in the first place?
Click to expand...
Because side effect. And the way how it's work. Aoe, target, touch, aura.
Click to expand...
Alright case in point,Not all "Instant Death" Spells work the same.

 
@Yomi

>By having no heart in your biology

>By having Resuscitation

>By having enough regen to regenerate a heart....

Good...but Vampire have heart, and zombie, and many many other undead creatures...But it doesn't work on them.

How did you resist instant death spell by resurrection?... It's going AFTER your death.

Okay regenerate a heart... how much HP do you think heart crushing attack would take? 100%? If not why it is instant death?
 
Maraderchik said:
@Yomi
>By having no heart in your biology

>By having Resuscitation

>By having enough regen to regenerate a heart....

Good...but Vampire have heart, and zombie, and many many other undead creatures...But it doesn't work on them.

How did you resist instant death spell by resurrection?... It's going AFTER your death.

Okay regenerate a heart... how much HP do you think heart crushing attack would take? 100%? If not why it is instant death?
Click to expand...
Very Circumstantial

You are applying an overlord concept of HP into other fictional verses.

It goes without saying

Destroyed Heart doesnt always equals death when you can regenerate from it
 
Akreious said:
Ainz in the new world is Paranoid as hell and will not under any circumstances if there's any doubt, let his opponent attack first. The only times he's shown to let the enemy attack first is when he's absolutely sure his opponents pose no threat to him. So all this talk about "He lets his opponent go first" is stupid since he's a PvP player anyways, and in PvP inside MMOs, as a MMO Nut myself, that is easily the most ******** thing you can do.
Click to expand...
This reply pretty much answered the thread question.
 
Yomi Schwarz said:
Just thought of something
I'd appreciate if you could answer this @Park

If every spell was just insta death with no differences then why is there multiple insta death spells in the first place????? O_____O

i legit wanna know man,pls tell me.
Click to expand...
I'm so sorry Pachi I know you want to stay on topic here.

There are different instant-death spells because some have different effects

Grasp Heart stuns if resisted, True death nullifies resurrection, and cry of the banshee has aoe. The regular death spell is likely a lower tier spell that does instant-death but doesn't have any of these effects.

What they have in common is they're all instant-death spells with the instant-death effect, but have other effects as well.

More to the point, I want you to describe what "Biologically" (because you seem to think grasp heart is biological) happens when Cry of the banshee happens. Maybe we should restrict this move against people who can't hear. I think that's looking for a biological explanation where the explanation should just be that it is Instant-Death magic.

Note: Why do you think that all instant death magic like true death and cry of the banshee have instant-death effects but GH is the one exception?

I also feel the need to point out that crushing someone's heart wouldn't instantly kill them. It would stop the blood flow to the person's brain similar to someone losing their pulse, and the person would be rendered unconscious before dying. The description of all of the people Ainz has used this spell on doesn't fit with that, in fact I've realized the description of the people after receiving from the GH spell is the same as the description of the people who die from the death spell or despair aura V which I think only adds to our argument.

Yomi, with all surefire evidence pointing to it being an instant-death magic w/ an instant-death effect, do you have any proof that it's just a TP on the heart? In addition, your definition suggests that people with more than won't receive the instant-death effect which I think is pretty ridiculous.

Anyways OT: Ainz never seems unsure in combat about what he's doing, and can form battle strategies while he's fighting. That's the vibe I got from the fight against the maids + wrath. He deduced their weaknesses and reacted accordingly. To add to the fact that he's always careful, when he was fighting against the fodder at the Holy Kingdom's wall, he was worried for a split second that they might have someone that could oppose him but then remembered that Demiurge would have notified him if they had anyone like that.
 
And we are done.

Im changing this to "Grasp Heart discussion" since you seem so adamant on discussing it.

I will have to create another thread.
 
At this point this is my consensus

First off,I am 100% against "Instant Death" Magic working at an "Abstract" or "Conceptual" level....i dont even know why people claimed this in the first place like wtf? that's basically tantamount to saying ainz can scratch beings faaar above his own ballpark like Eternity

It's a simple Death Manipulation technique that induces death.You can stop it when you have the ability to or when you have the resistance to be able to,It's not a reality bending magic that causes 100% sure death at an "abstract" level

Second off all,About Grasp Heart

For it to induce it's "instant death" magic (which i explained is not even near the level of what you people think it is) the opponent at least needs to have a heart

Saying otherwise is basically ignoring the entire point and presentation of the spell itself.

As for the Mindset of Ainz

As long as people dont assume he's a supergenius,then i wont have any aggressive outburst
 
Gargoyle One said:
What if the person has regen good enough to regenerate from a destroyed heart, like High?
Click to expand...
We can say that under the assumption of the person needs to die from a crushed heart for the effects to work.
 
Yomi Schwarz said:
Gargoyle One said:
What if the person has regen good enough to regenerate from a destroyed heart, like High?
Click to expand...
We can say that under the assumption of the person needs to die from a crushed heart for the effects to work.
Click to expand...
But... that's doesn't make sense. How is it instant death effect if you assume it's work only after enemy is died from crushing heart?

Isn't it's just regular death?
 
@Yomi

>for a spell of a "necromancy" variety,the one who gets affected has to be deceased.

I don't know what to say, because [Death] spell is necromantic spell and its work perfectly fine with alive creature.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Necromancy_School and there a bunch of necromancy spells that's didn't need dead body.

As for killing cosmic, abstract and conceptual being with this kind of spell it's basically impossible, because of their immortality type.
 
>I don't know what to say, because [Death] spell is necromantic spell and its work perfectly fine with alive creature.

No.

That spell used Death Manipulation that is not of the necromancy kind

also stick with in-verse sources instead of outskirts info database,the legitimacy is incredibly questionable for the oppositions.
 
>No.

That spell used Death Manipulation that is not of the necromancy kind


Sorry but in this case Grasp Heart didn't match this necromancy definition either. You didn't rise dead body you didn't nothing to it.

There just no point in instant death if you already kill your opponent BUT if opponent didn't die this spell stun him.

Can you elaborate when Instant death effect should be applyed in this case?


As for database, it's just reference to variety of necromancer spells.
 
Okay follow your logic, if you crush enemy heart and he's regenerate it, will it trigered insteat death effect or it's stun your opponent?

Because his heart technicaly crushed.
 
@Mara

Not every variation of "Necromancy" techniques deal with resurrection.

A spell that interacts with a dead body can be considered a necromancy spell.

That's why the variety of "instant death" type Properties in Grasp Heart can only be triggered once the person can die from it.

>Okay follow your logic, if you crush enemy heart and he's regenerate it, will it trigered insteat death effect or it's stun your opponent?

No because the Regenerationn made him Survive from it but yes it will stun.
 
That's why the variety of "instant death" type Properties in Grasp Heart can only be triggered once the person can die from it.

Well. I think i just stop there. It's just essential of spells (all of them) with instant death effects, it's doesn't work if you CAN'T die from it.
 
@Yomi I don't think I can debate with your ignorance anymore, you've completely ignored everything I've written multiple times and its getting unbelievably tiring.

First off (and you should know this) all of Ainz's death spells are Necromantic, saying that grasp heart is any different from his other death spells that fall under the instant-death category is intellectually dishonest.

It's considered a necromantic spell because Death spells all fall under that category.

There is absolutely no reason Grasp Heart should be treated any differently from any of the other instant-death spells with their instant-death effects. We're not going to say Grasp Heart only destroys the heart because of its name, We're not going to say Cry of the Banshee only works on people who can hear, and we're not going to say that Lightning dragon is an actual dragon because of the name. Also, we're not going to say that Grasp Heart only works on people with one heart.

Grasp Heart is clearly stated to have instant-death properties, the same properties as any of his other death spells. It also induces instant-death.

Do you have evidence that it only crushes the heart and isn't death manipulation?

Read my previous posts, I have plentiful evidence that it is death manipulation from the way the body reacts, to its description, and comparisons to other spells of its same type.
 
Also I'd like to point out that the [Death] which is a regular instant-death spell with no special effects is only an 8th Tier, while it only makes sense that Grasp Heart and True Death would be 9th Tier spells with added effects to instant-death. It just makes sense

EDIT: There's no reason that an instant-death spell of a higher level (grasp heart) shouldn't have that instant-death effect while other instant death spells of the 9th tier (True Death)(cry of the banshee) do
 
@Park

>First off (and you should know this) all of Ainz's death spells are Necromantic, saying that grasp heart is any different from his other death spells that fall under the instant-death category is intellectually dishonest.

>There is absolutely no reason Grasp Heart should be treated any differently from any of the other instant-death spells with their instant-death effects.

So you're saying it's not any different?

Well I'll be looks like the variety on death spells is pretty useless if they don't differentiate with them in any way,shape or form.

Its not like they are all activated differently with varying degree of effects,Hell No :p


>Grasp Heart is clearly stated to have instant-death properties, the same properties as any of his other death spells. It also induces instant-death.

>Do you have evidence that it only crushes the heart and isn't death manipulation

If you read my consensus post.i clearly let go of the entire "biology" thing cause of violent reactions.

Second off all,About Grasp Heart

For it to induce it's "instant death" magic (which i explained is not even near the level of what you people think it is) the opponent at least needs to have a heart

Saying otherwise is basically ignoring the entire point and presentation of the spell itself

Quote taken directly from my consensus point.

And Gargoyle brought up an assumption that I think also makes sense
 
You missed my point.

Yomi already answered it too, surging your heart being destroyed means you're fine.
 
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