(GRACE) Sans fights the Ultimate Life Form

[ShionAH]

If he didn't do it in the Frisk fight, he ain't doing it here, meaning no DIO bullshit.
Teleportation only helps so much.

Frisk was using a knife. Unless you are saying sans is a dumbass he will teleport.

Spoiler alert sans isnt dumb: Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius

It isn't wrong, Frisk might know how to do that but, as I just said, Kars' soul is intriguingl connected to his body, if blue mode can't stop his physical body from moving, which it can't, because Kars outclass' it in force/LS by thousands of times. This isn't an Undertale battle lad, those things might be canon to Undertale, but it isn't like Kars and him are taking turns attacking here or using item menus.

Theres not gonna be turns or items I never said that what I am saying is Kars will have to suddenly learn how to use his soul effectively then has to get up from the TK slam then has to dodge the bones below then the side then dodge the blasters who are faster than his speed. That is not easy for a first try and a sudden attack

Kars will dodge, and that's kinda it, not much more to say. Gravity stuff won't help against a dude who can lift like 1000 tons with one finger.

TK will though since lifting something up doesnt mean your weight is that much.

Uh, do you think Kars' soul is just out floating in a void? It isn't, Kars' soul is connected to his body, if his body moves, his soul moves, to hit his soul, means to hit his body. The bones must strike his body to get to his soul, there's no way around this, souls are a very established thing in JoJo, it ain't like in Undertale where they're a wacky heart in a void which i'd argue is still within Frisk's body and he's just physically moving to dodge anyhow

not sure if this is true tbh I am stuck in this cross word thing please stop doing that I am trapped... Sans will NOT hit kars body but his soul so his body being shaped different doesnt matter as long as his soul stays the same which is how it is in this thread. Actually thats the reason sans literally dura negs he doesnt hit the body but your soul.

stat advantage,

AP doesnt matter both can basically one shot (sans just need 2 hits) speed goes to sans, durability is irrelevant so Kars has LS and IQ.

immortality, regen and more.

Both of which are irrelevant here.

My brother in christ, the summons can turn into dozen meter long tentacles, elephants, expand and increase in size, and Kars can fire off how many ever he wants. I was using rats as an example, imagine hundreds of tentacles that can rip through steel the size of warplanes in this case if you want.

Bro I only debate about what I see in the scans. In the scan there was 10 piranhas. 1 octopus. 1 squirrel.

nothing sans has isn't anything that doesnt already exist in jojo tho

Can I see the fight scene where kars dodges soul danmaku that 2 shots and then dodges gaster blasters? LOL

I mean, of any human, not UNdertale humans, but humans in general. Let me put this into perspective, Santana, a Pillar Men so ******* useless and dumb as shit compared to Kars, can figure out complex technology, moves, techniques and so on in mere moments. He was so fodder, useless and dumb as a brick compared to Kars and his squad, they straight up disowned him and left him on a different continent.

The problem here is this move or technique is nothing they ever saw. It is literally magic that only exists in undertale. Theres no way you can argue somehow kars will be like "Oh blue attacks hmm yeah I gotta stand still because I somehow know that!"

Being long doesn't matter, as mentioned, Kars can contort his body so much, he can make it so thin he can fit between cracks and vents in a wall for example.
Dude could unironically Monkey D Luffy his own ass and avoid it.

The thing is like I said his body is out of this debate. Sans specifically attacks the soul so if he tries those he will just be hit.

Blue Mode can't force him down is what I'm saying, his LS far eclipses it to the point it's not even funny. Sans could put all his might into trying to weigh down Kars pinky, and would fail.

Unless you are saying Kars is obese and his weight is way higher than class 25 sans will be able to slam him down.

No he wouldn't, if he never did it against Frisk in such a way, he will never use it in the manner you speak of in any fight, even if it's the smartest thing to do ever.

Its not that crazy to assume sans will adapt to Kars in atleast some way. He is a genius after all and he wont just use the same techniques no matter the opponent

My brother, that's assuming Blue Mode even budges him to begin with.

Unless he is obese TK will still work.

Stroheim's gun is not MFTL, it's just a very epic minigun. But it doesn't matter when Kars inherently upscales any biological lifeform in the verse in any capability, and there's been lads who have dealt with danmaku before. Not like he needs it here tho, danmaku isn't an issue due to his biology, flight and other such things.

So the gun isn't mftl? Then the bullet feat is not good. Yes it is epic though.

 

[ShionAH]

10 in that specific panel, the rest of the feathers turned into a bunch off-screen that were breaking the plane, and also tentacles to stop the plane.

We dont know the count then. 10+ piranhas isnt that bad.

 

[ShionAH]

So basically here are the wincons I think.

Kars: Using his danmaku and abilities to hit sans hoping to god sans doesnt teleport, dodging all of sans danmaku and somehow knowing blue attacks
Sans: Hitting kars twice or more than 0.83 seconds with one attack, dodging his attacks and the piranhas using the blue attacks after realizing Kars sucks at dodging those.

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'm voting kars, even if you give sans timestop and teleportation defensively kars is going to analytically predict and adapt to where and how sans is gonna move.

 

[ShionAH]

I'm voting kars, even if you give sans timestop and teleportation defensively kars is going to analytically predict and adapt to where and how sans is gonna move.

He cannot predict when time is literally stopped thats the biggest NLF I have seen. Kars has no answer to blue attacks and the first bone attack from the below that is dodgeable but not likely.

 

[ShionAH]

Unless they fix their reason for the vote not sure if its countable but I dont really care lol

 

[Chariot190]

Frisk was using a knife. Unless you are saying sans is a dumbass he will teleport.

Spoiler alert sans isnt dumb: Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius

I am saying that Sans while bloodlusted had never done such a thing also cant he use other weapons in that fight like a gun? I don't think he's limited to a knife
Sans' intelligence might be high, but he's still bound by his character traits, need I remind you it took literally everyone dying for him to even get off his ass and do what he did against the most dangerous thing he's ever seen against someone he knows has infinite tries and is determined to **** everything, if he was as smart and willing as you say in combat to use that, why didn't he use that stuff anyway just to drive home to Frisk how utterly impossible it'd be to defeat him, even if he could dodge a knife normally?

Theres not gonna be turns or items I never said that what I am saying is Kars will have to suddenly learn how to use his soul effectively then has to get up from the TK slam then has to dodge the bones below then the side then dodge the blasters who are faster than his speed. That is not easy for a first try and a sudden attack

I don't think you understand, he doesn't have to, Blue Mode is gravity/weight, Kars' LS is so far beyond it that he's already countered it completely by simply moving.
Nobody said it was easy, but between his biology, contortion, skill, own intelligence, sensing and more, he has every tool to know the bones are coming, as well as the blasters, and just dodge like Frisk does, except way, way, better because he can fly, has insane mobility, can basically rip his own body apart to dodge, and so on.
And as mentioned, Blue Mode is a nonfactor, you're basically arguing that a light breeze would hinder him or affect him at all, to put this into perspective, if someone tried to stab you but had a puny toy fan blowing on you, do you think the wind pressure would effect your dodge in the slightest?

TK will though since lifting something up doesnt mean your weight is that much.

Kars can fly brother, TK ain't doing shit if he can control his own movement through the air. Or just encase himself in heavy armor or whatever to make it harder, unsure if he can make himself weigh 10 tons though probably could actually, could probably just mimic a whale or shark or something

not sure if this is true tbh I am stuck in this cross word thing please stop doing that I am trapped... Sans will NOT hit kars body but his soul so his body being shaped different doesnt matter as long as his soul stays the same which is how it is in this thread. Actually thats the reason sans literally dura negs he doesnt hit the body but your body.

I'm just going to ignore this point from now on and jsut be blunt and say Sans ain't doing shit unless he can actually hit Kars, you obviously don't understand the fact that to HIT the soul CONTAINED within the BODY, that he has to HIT the BODY to HIT the SOUL. Like where's the issue stem from, this isn't complex.

AP doesnt matter both can basically one shot (sans just need 2 hits) speed goes to sans, durability is irrelevant so Kars has LS and IQ.

Sans needs more than 2 hits brother, his attacks don't go by hit, but the length of time struck. He could only need 1 hit, or he could need a million, it depends how long his attacks land for.

Not quite, you're arguing Kars' soul is somehow disconnected from his body, if that's the case, his body can just body block everything because it won't be harmed due to lack of soul.

Both of which are irrelevant here.

Not if we go by the line of logic you're applying.

Bro I only debate about what I see in the scans. In the scan there was 10 piranhas. 1 octopus. 1 squirrel.

Those pirahnas and tentacles came from him shooting his feathers at the plane, then having his feathers shapeshift into those things.
If he shoots 10 feathers, he can make 10 things, but if he shoots 100, he can do 100, etc. Though there was more off screen, we see at least 14 piranhas, and 4 tentacles, all from just a quick burst of feathers Kars shot at the start.

Can I see the fight scene where kars dodges soul danmaku that 2 shots and then dodges gaster blasters? LOL

Act 3 Freeze is gravity manip that can effect the soul. And I'd be better off listing which JoJo character doesnt have duraneg that works on the soul.
Kars himself has never encountered them because his ass was blasted off to space, but various humans in JoJo have deduced and figured out how these things work in short order, and Kars explicitly upscales in deduction and intelligence any human in the setting.
If they can, so can he basically.
But this really doesn't matter now does it? Blue Mode doesn't help, and Kars can just dodge the obviously offensive-based attacks by virtue of them being attacks, whether he knows or not doesn't change he can and will avoid them just fine.
also DIO, someone explicitly below Kars could deflect danmaku surprise attacks

The problem here is this move or technique is nothing they ever saw. It is literally magic that only exists in undertale. T

That one isn't true, there's actually a near-identical ability in JoJo.
And bones? My dude, that ain't special. And beams? Kars was completely unphased by the creation of actual laserbeams, military grade lights, and more, this stuff isn't gonna shock him, he'll just take it as it is and play around it.

heres no way you can argue somehow kars will be like "Oh blue attacks hmm yeah I gotta stand still because I somehow know that!"

The blue attacks have to actually hit him though, Sans doesn't lead with those attacks, and by the time he does, he's 1. Probably already dead. 2. Kars is so far out his range due to flight+LS negging blue mode that Sans straight up can't do anything.
Kars could unironically just fly up, throw down a superpowered rat, and watch Sans tire himself out against small rodents while he cant do anything to Kars.

The thing is like I said his body is out of this debate. Sans specifically attacks the soul so if he tries those he will just be hit.

Bruh, what's so hard to understand that in order to hit the soul you need to hit the body because the soul and the body are literally occupying the exact same space and move 1:1 with each other. Kars' soul is contained in his body, to hit the soul you have to actually tag Kars himself. It isn't like we have Kars' body, and then 50 feet away is his soul.

Unless you are saying Kars is obese and his weight is way higher than class 25 sans will be able to slam him down.

I am saying that Kars' LS and ability to apply force, withstand force and move around is so far beyond Blue Mode it's not even funny and that Kars' index finger is by itself >>> 500 tons.
Blue Mode ain't doing shit lad, objectively, it may as well be a brisk breeze.

Unless he is obese TK will still work.

Unless Kars decides to do literally anything or is currently moving already, in such a case, it would not. The only way it'd work is if Kars literally stood still and let himself be moved.

So the gun isn't mftl? Then the bullet feat is not good. Yes it is epic though.

No, it's still quite good, but as mentioned like ten times, Kars >>> Dudes that can and have instantly picked up and adapted to danmaku.

We dont know the count then. 10+ piranhas isnt that bad.

Don't need to know, it's tied to his body's offshoots, in which he has no set limit and can regenerate his body constantly at a beyond cellular level.
If Kars wanted to, he could shoot, and keep shooting, and every shot is another organism.

So basically here are the wincons I think.

Kars: Using his danmaku and abilities to hit sans hoping to god sans doesnt teleport, dodging all of sans danmaku and somehow knowing blue attacks
Sans: Hitting kars twice or more than 0.83 seconds with one attack, dodging his attacks and the piranhas using the blue attacks after realizing Kars sucks at dodging those.

Kars wincons are literally just dodge everything, one shot, outrange, out lift invalidating blue mode, flight, hamon, overwhelm with shots and organisms, etc. Kars has also lead with blinding light before, there's a high chance that Sans could straight up just immediately lose track of Kars the moment the fight starts.
Sans ain't dodging if Kars actually wants to hit him, he used piranhas there to destroy Joseph's parachute (shown following panel) and the tentacles to destroy the plane, making it so Joseph would crash the plane without a way to escape to kill him as a kind of "**** you" for trying to escape in a plane. In this situation, he'd be more liable to use something closer to the squirrel given they on land.

How would Sans realize Kars sucks at dodging (lmao)? And not quite, Blue Attacks can actually still be dodged. this isn't Undertale, they aren't restricted to a 2D plane of movement, if the blue attack doesn't actually hit Kars to begin with, he'd be fine as the blue attack only deals damage if you move while hit it. If Kars isn't hit by it to begin with, he's fine to move.

He cannot predict when time is literally stopped thats the biggest NLF I have seen. Kars has no answer to blue attacks and the first bone attack from the below that is dodgeable but not likely.

He probably could actually, Johnny Joestar was able to deduce that Diego's ability was time stop after seeing him set up an attack once. Like maybe it's just me, but I think Kars >>> Johnny's deductive skills.

Answer to blue attack is just don't get hit in the first place.
Attack from below is dodgeable, and if not, it isn't gonna kill him either way, only the next attack would, and he ain't getting hit again if he gets hit the first time.

But ngl, Class 25 TK ain't doing shit to Kars, and that's kind of Sans main method to actually force hits in.

 

[Ikelaggan]

He cannot predict when time is literally stopped thats the biggest NLF I have seen.

He doesn't need to predict when it's stopped just when it's remused and when sans is in a different position from his old one.

 

[ShionAH]

I am saying that Sans while bloodlusted had never done such a thing also cant he use other weapons in that fight like a gun? I don't think he's limited to a knife
Sans' intelligence might be high, but he's still bound by his character traits, need I remind you it took literally everyone dying for him to even get off his ass and do what he did against the most dangerous thing he's ever seen against someone he knows has infinite tries and is determined to **** everything, if he was as smart and willing as you say in combat to use that, why didn't he use that stuff anyway just to drive home to Frisk how utterly impossible it'd be to defeat him, even if he could dodge a knife normally?

Maybe because other wise he would be impossible to win against tbh. Still its IC for sans to abuse everything in his arsenal to win.

I don't think you understand, he doesn't have to, Blue Mode is gravity/weight, Kars' LS is so far beyond it that he's already countered it completely by simply moving.
Nobody said it was easy, but between his biology, contortion, skill, own intelligence, sensing and more, he has every tool to know the bones are coming, as well as the blasters, and just dodge like Frisk does, except way, way, better because he can fly, has insane mobility, can basically rip his own body apart to dodge, and so on.
And as mentioned, Blue Mode is a nonfactor, you're basically arguing that a light breeze would hinder him or affect him at all, to put this into perspective, if someone tried to stab you but had a puny toy fan blowing on you, do you think the wind pressure would effect your dodge in the slightest?

Blue Mode is irrelevant that is true I am talking about TK not Blue Mode. Like I said Kars cannot actually change his body to dodge since sans only attacks the soul not the body.

Kars can fly brother, TK ain't doing shit if he can control his own movement through the air. Or just encase himself in heavy armor or whatever to make it harder, unsure if he can make himself weigh 10 tons though probably could actually, could probably just mimic a whale or shark or something

He can do it but has he ever done that? Anyways if Kars flies sans can slam him down while the attack is going on to give him a little surprise if he wanted to.

I'm just going to ignore this point from now on and jsut be blunt and say Sans ain't doing shit unless he can actually hit Kars, you obviously don't understand the fact that to HIT the soul CONTAINED within the BODY, that he has to HIT the BODY to HIT the SOUL. Like where's the issue stem from, this isn't complex.

Its not complex but your view is wrong. The literal reason sans has durability negation is because he hits the soul directly. If your logic applied sans would be a 10-B fodder remember even when frisk wears heavy armour sans still does the same damage.

Sans needs more than 2 hits brother, his attacks don't go by hit, but the length of time struck. He could only need 1 hit, or he could need a million, it depends how long his attacks land for.

He needs 2 hits or 1 hit to stay on Kars for less than second. Kars since has the same speed as sans will have to get out before a second passes to stay alive.

Not quite, you're arguing Kars' soul is somehow disconnected from his body, if that's the case, his body can just body block everything because it won't be harmed due to lack of soul.

No I am not saying that what I am saying is sans ignores the body and attacks the soul so even if Kars turn himself into a puddle to dodge sans will just hit the soul not the puddle. If he has no soul its a stomp.

Those pirahnas and tentacles came from him shooting his feathers at the plane, then having his feathers shapeshift into those things.
If he shoots 10 feathers, he can make 10 things, but if he shoots 100, he can do 100, etc. Though there was more off screen, we see at least 14 piranhas, and 4 tentacles, all from just a quick burst of feathers Kars shot at the start.

I counted 10 piranhas and 1 octopus. So I don't see how they cover the entire underground and make it impossible for sans to dodge tbh. Do their speed even scale?

Act 3 Freeze is gravity manip that can effect the soul. And I'd be better off listing which JoJo character doesnt have duraneg that works on the soul.
Kars himself has never encountered them because his ass was blasted off to space, but various humans in JoJo have deduced and figured out how these things work in short order, and Kars explicitly upscales in deduction and intelligence any human in the setting.
If they can, so can he basically.
But this really doesn't matter now does it? Blue Mode doesn't help, and Kars can just dodge the obviously offensive-based attacks by virtue of them being attacks, whether he knows or not doesn't change he can and will avoid them just fine.
also DIO, someone explicitly below Kars could deflect danmaku surprise attacks

I don't see anything I need to respond here tbh.

That one isn't true, there's actually a near-identical ability in JoJo.

Which?

And bones? My dude, that ain't special.

Dura negging bones that poison the soul isnt special?

And beams? Kars was completely unphased by the creation of actual laserbeams, military grade lights, and more, this stuff isn't gonna shock him, he'll just take it as it is and play around it.

The laserbeams are gonna be faster than Kars and will actually one shot this time since they are faster Kars if hit by one wont have enough time to get out before he gets soul haxxed.

The blue attacks have to actually hit him though

They come fast and are like extremely tall they also come with the small bones that surprise Kars.

, Sans doesn't lead with those attacks

Its like his 3rd attack.

, he's 1. Probably already dead.

Yeah probably not unless Kars goes kinda OOC and fires 10000 piranhas.

2. Kars is so far out his range due to flight+LS negging blue mode that Sans straight up can't do anything.

Does kars actually fly away and start to abuse his range?

Kars could unironically just fly up, throw down a superpowered rat, and watch Sans tire himself out against small rodents while he cant do anything to Kars

Expect sans can attack both of them at the same time with danmaku if he watches he will be blasted and die.

.

Bruh, what's so hard to understand that in order to hit the soul you need to hit the body because the soul and the body are literally occupying the exact same space and move 1:1 with each other. Kars' soul is contained in his body, to hit the soul you have to actually tag Kars himself. It isn't like we have Kars' body, and then 50 feet away is his soul.

I think the thing you are not getting is just because kars body shifts into something different doesnt mean their soul does too. Like if kars makes his size 10 meters would his soul also be 10 meters? NO.

I am saying that Kars' LS and ability to apply force, withstand force and move around is so far beyond Blue Mode it's not even funny and that Kars' index finger is by itself >>> 500 tons.
Blue Mode ain't doing shit lad, objectively, it may as well be a brisk breeze.

Lad. I am not talking about Blue Mode. Its TK and he uses to slam Kars just because he is stronger doesnt mean sans cannot lift him up.

Unless Kars decides to do literally anything or is currently moving already, in such a case, it would not. The only way it'd work is if Kars literally stood still and let himself be moved.

Kars will be slammed and before he can abuse his Ls advantage sans will just let him go this might also surprise him since he will assume sans is gonna try to make him stand still

No, it's still quite good, but as mentioned like ten times, Kars >>> Dudes that can and have instantly picked up and adapted to danmaku.

That danmaku is so different than sans its not even relevant.

Don't need to know, it's tied to his body's offshoots, in which he has no set limit and can regenerate his body constantly at a beyond cellular level.

He cannot regenarate his soul so irrelevant lol

If Kars wanted to, he could shoot, and keep shooting, and every shot is another organism.

Which he only did with 10 piranhas 1 octopus and 1 squirrel like come on you guys are exaggerating.

Kars wincons are literally just dodge everything,

Not likely since Kars has no feats showing he can dodge danmaku like sans and he has no idea how blasters (which are faster) work or blue bones.

one shot

sans does the same (nearl)

outrange

Which sans wont let

, flight,

TKed

hamon, overwhelm with shots and organisms, etc.

Sans being able to the same.

Kars has also lead with blinding light before

Which sans doesnt really care since he can dodge while sleeping. Would it even work on sans? He is inorganic.

Sans ain't dodging if Kars actually wants to hit him, he used piranhas there to destroy Joseph's parachute (shown following panel) and the tentacles to destroy the plane,

Still theres no "hundreds of organism that cover the entire hall"

making it so Joseph would crash the plane without a way to escape to kill him as a kind of "**** you" for trying to escape in a plane. In this situation, he'd be more liable to use something closer to the squirrel given they on land.

If he uses the squirrel chances are sans grabs the little thing and throws it Kars then starts to danmaku both of them.

How would Sans realize Kars sucks at dodging (lmao)

If he gets hit by the blue attacks to the point where he has to abuse his flight he will also abuse his blue attacks.

And not quite, Blue Attacks can actually still be dodged. this isn't Undertale, they aren't restricted to a 2D plane of movement, if the blue attack doesn't actually hit Kars to begin with, he'd be fine as the blue attack only deals damage if you move while hit it. If Kars isn't hit by it to begin with, he's fine to move.

This is true but the problem being the blue attacks are really fast and Kars can be caught off guard theres also the fact that sans says enough and just teleports his attack right infront of his face.

He probably could actually, Johnny Joestar was able to deduce that Diego's ability was time stop after seeing him set up an attack once. Like maybe it's just me, but I think Kars >>> Johnny's deductive skills.

he cannot know anything while time is stopped.

Answer to blue attack is just don't get hit in the first place.

Which is hard since the bones are really big and sans can abuse with tp or tk or whatever if he realizes Kars is abusing his flight.

Attack from below is dodgeable, and if not, it isn't gonna kill him either way, only the next attack would, and he ain't getting hit again if he gets hit the first time.

Thankfully sans has blasters. How can kars dodge those? They are faster than him and one shot. (kinda)

But ngl, Class 25 TK ain't doing shit to Kars, and that's kind of Sans main method to actually force hits in.

Kars is not obese lol

He doesn't need to predict when it's stopped just when it's remused and when sans is in a different position from his old one.

He has to do this in a nano second or something to react which is a horrible NLF. Time stop and start now he sees 10 different attacks and sans in another posi- oh wait he died.

 

[ShionAH]

I dont think I can respond again tbh I am a bit busy so call another UT supporter to take my place or whatever.

 

[Dragonite007]

Shadow FRA

 

[Ikelaggan]

He has to do this in a nano second or something to react which is a horrible NLF.

Is sans timestop light speed, if not it's a obviously gross hyperbole to say he needs a nanosecond and not a second.

 

[ShionAH]

Shadow FRA

who

Is sans timestop light speed, if not it's a obviously gross hyperbole to say he needs a nanosecond and not a second.

it was an example.

 

[ShionAH]

Is sans timestop light speed, if not it's a obviously gross hyperbole to say he needs a nanosecond and not a second.

Wait how can time stop be light speed? Its instant. Its time stop-

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

kars ftw

jojo's character bullies undertale's character.

 

[Dragonite007]

who

 

[ShionAH]

Anyways I see this match is sealed. Sans gets bullied by animals FRA

 

[Ikelaggan]

Wait how can time stop be light speed? Its instant. Its time stop-

Instant is a subjective timeframe and you have justification or evidence for kars needing a nanosecond and saying you need a nanosecond to react to a timestop is a NLF on it's own.

 

[ShionAH]

Instant is a subjective timeframe

Not in equal speed

and you have justification or evidence for kars needing a nanosecond and saying you need a nanosecond to react to a timestop is a NLF on it's own.

It was a random second example. Thought that was extremely obvious.

 

[Undylan]

Kars FRA

 

[StrymULTRA]

And grace is on.

 

[Ikelaggan]

If kars wins this, Ultimate lifeform >>>>>> Frezia

 

[StrymULTRA]

If kars wins this, Ultimate lifeform >>>>>> Frezia

He already is.

 

[Ikelaggan]

He already is.

All I see is medeka and thanos in his wins

 

[StrymULTRA]

All I see is medeka and thanos in his wins

I mean that he stomps Frieza in the non canon version lol

 

[Chariot190]

Maybe because other wise he would be impossible to win against tbh. Still its IC for sans to abuse everything in his arsenal to win.

That isn't our concern, we still use how he behaves in combat, if he's struck by CIS, we still use that as long as it isn't contradicted, which it is not. The thread that gave him time stop to begin with even says he ain't using it in ways he hasn't.
Like, if we had reason to think Sans could logically use his time stop in such ways, that'd be fair, but his fight against Frisk is a double-edged sword, it tells us in a fight he goes balls to the ******* walls all out with danmaku, TK, gravity, and so on, but it also tells us that even in the worst fight of his life, he didn't use time stop like that even if it would've helped.

Blue Mode is irrelevant that is true I am talking about TK not Blue Mode. Like I said Kars cannot actually change his body to dodge since sans only attacks the soul not the body.

Jesus, this isn't complicated. If Kars physically avoids the attacks, so does his soul.

He can do it but has he ever done that? Anyways if Kars flies sans can slam him down while the attack is going on to give him a little surprise if he wanted to.

Uh, yeah? Most of his time in Ultimate was spent flying. Like my dude, it's literally his render even.
No, he can't, what part of Kars LS is so much above Sans' TK and Blue Mode that it isn't doing anything? You're comparing Class 25 at BEST, vs someone who's index finger eclipses 500 tons. This isn't even a debate. TK and Blue Mode are worthless here.

Its not complex but your view is wrong. The literal reason sans has durability negation is because he hits the soul directly. If your logic applied sans would be a 10-B fodder remember even when frisk wears heavy armour sans still does the same damage.

I know how the ability works, he hits the soul, but he still has to hit the body to bypass the body's physical defenses, to hit the soul.
He hits the soul directly, but if the soul is TIED to the body, he has to hit the body to hit the soul, holy shit.
Sans' attacks bypass durability, they don't bypass the act of having to actually hit the enemy.

He needs 2 hits or 1 hit to stay on Kars for less than second. Kars since has the same speed as sans will have to get out before a second passes to stay alive.

Which he can, easily, hell he can dodge them before they even properly spawn with his enhanced senses.

No I am not saying that what I am saying is sans ignores the body and attacks the soul so even if Kars turn himself into a puddle to dodge sans will just hit the soul not the puddle. If he has no soul its a stomp.

Uh, newsflash, nobody is saying he'd turned into a puddle, we're saying he'll like break his spine, bones, muscles, and stretch himself around the attacks basically, avoiding them completely, without the attacks in question ever actually hitting him like some Mr. Fantastic bullshit.

I counted 10 piranhas and 1 octopus. So I don't see how they cover the entire underground and make it impossible for sans to dodge tbh. Do their speed even scale?

Easy, he shoots some more? And nobody said the entire underground, I said the hallway, which is entirely possible, even just 10 tentacles instead of pirahnas would be enough.

I don't see anything I need to respond here tbh.

If your argument is "wow kars would never be able to figure these out lmao", despite explicitly having better analytical and deduction skills than people who have figured out near identical abilities in his verse, idk chief.

Which?

Probably why you should've actually responded to the top one, I just named it off.

They come fast and are like extremely tall they also come with the small bones that surprise Kars.

Dude, you know Kars has a vertical leap of at least 18 meters right? You know he can fly kilometers in the sky right? You know he can just straight up dodge them?
Like my dude, Kars OWN bone blades are comparable to those, it isn't anything special let alone unavoidable.
The small bones wont even have the range to hit Kars, and Sans doesn't use those into well into the fight, this fight aint lasting that long unless Kars decides to outlast, and if he decides to just outlast, Sans instant loses as he has no counter.

Dura negging bones that poison the soul isnt special?

They really aren't, even Kars has duraneg, and bones, and just about everybody in this verse has some sort of duraneg, one way or another. Lots being soul-based too.
They're bones, they can be dodged, they will be dodged, they are not special.

The laserbeams are gonna be faster than Kars and will actually one shot this time since they are faster Kars if hit by one wont have enough time to get out before he gets soul haxxed.

I must've said like 5 times Kars would be able to dodge them with his enhanced senses and contortion, or flight, or any of the other options he has. They're faster due to speed equal even though winning like that in speed equal invalidates a match but they still take a moment to fire, Kars can and will be able to easily read their trajectory and dodge the moment they spawn in due to being able to sense air displacement.

Its like his 3rd attack.

3rd attack against someone who can immediately **** off, or even blind you making you unable to even keep track of him or land your attacks because you don't know where he is, is kind of an issue on his end.

Does kars actually fly away and start to abuse his range?

Did so immediately against Joseph, which is basically his main fight in Ult so yeah.

Expect sans can attack both of them at the same time with danmaku if he watches he will be blasted and die.

No he can't because Sans doesn't have hundreds of meters of range with his attacks.
If Kars just flies up, Sans loses, nothing he has can reach him, not even TK or Blue Mode (despite them both being useless here).

I think the thing you are not getting is just because kars body shifts into something different doesnt mean their soul does too. Like if kars makes his size 10 meters would his soul also be 10 meters? NO.

Actually, it probably would, the soul reflects the physical body in JoJo, it's why we got shit like Chariot having no hands or feet in Part 5 because Pol doesn't, or why the souls always look the same as the physical body in JoJo, like Reimi or ghosts. The only real exception I can think of is with Avdol but let's be real, Araki ain't gonna draw Avdol's ghost as being two disembodied hands in a serious scene
But no, you completely misunderstand what people are saying,why the **** would Kars make himself a bigger target? The whole point is to just flat out dodge attacks, if Kars bends his body into a noodle by breaking all his bones, his soul issn't gonna be sticking out of his body or some dumb shit like that.

Lad. I am not talking about Blue Mode. Its TK and he uses to slam Kars just because he is stronger doesnt mean sans cannot lift him up.

It does when he can literally fly and control his movement through the air, aka, this would be liek trying to TK Superman through the air, like brother, it ain't working.

Kars will be slammed and before he can abuse his Ls advantage sans will just let him go this might also surprise him since he will assume sans is gonna try to make him stand still

Dude, you act like LS is some ability that has to be activated manually, it isn't, it's a matter of moving. Unless Kars stands still, he's always making use of his LS.
Surprise him? Bruh. You ain't surprising him with basic TK that won't even budge him to begin with.

That danmaku is so different than sans its not even relevant.

Uh, ngl, I think Emerald Splash is actually the better Danmaku, DIO was able to dodge it initially despite being taken off guard and not expecting it.
ES has more projectiles at play.
Kars >>>>>> DIO.

Which he only did with 10 piranhas 1 octopus and 1 squirrel like come on you guys are exaggerating.

Really aren't, context is key. He used enough to get what he wanted done, if he needed more, he'd have used more. Kars himself goes on record and explicitly denotes he will do whatever he must to win, he will do everything he can to win, he doesn't care if it's unfair, dirty, or straight up bullshit, he will do it. In this case, we know he can do it, and did something similar.
For one arguing Sans will use his time stop in ways he never had, the fact you're arguing Kars doing this is OOC (It's absolutely not, has precedence, and already did things close to it) is baffling imo.

sans does the same (nearl)

Yes, near, but not an actual one shot, and only if he lands it for long enough. Meanwhile literally everything Kars does straight up IS a one shot.

Which sans doesnt really care since he can dodge while sleeping. Would it even work on sans? He is inorganic.

Yeah nice try, Sans isn't clairvoyant, he can dodge while sleeping (and even then only barely, he did immediately after to the next one while awake, literally just a 2 hit combo killed Sans), he can't attack shit he doesn't know where it is, you're conflating IR with enhanced senses, and if he had enhanced senses, this would just make it even worse as the blinding light would be even more dazzling.
He being inorganic doesn't mean light doesn't effect him, he sees, all monsters uses lights and lamps and candles and etc, they obviously see light.

Still theres no "hundreds of organism that cover the entire hall"

Unless Kars decides "maybe i should fire just a few more lol".
You're acting as if he has a limit here.

If he uses the squirrel chances are sans grabs the little thing and throws it Kars then starts to danmaku both of them.

Bro, that squirrel literally outstats Sans. He ain't doing shit, he grabs it, he's dying to it.
He can't danmaku someone out of range.

If he gets hit by the blue attacks to the point where he has to abuse his flight he will also abuse his blue attacks.

"to the point he has to-", my dude, Kars is probably leading with flight, and if he doesn't, dude just backflips out of the way of the first attack and while 5 stories high (out of Sans' range, stated kars vertical jump height btw), he just grows wings and flies.
And "if he gets hit by-", why assume Kars would get hit? He can dodge them even on the ground.

This is true but the problem being the blue attacks are really fast and Kars can be caught off guard theres also the fact that sans says enough and just teleports his attack right infront of his face.

Dude, why would Kars get caught off guard when he's expecting things like that? You already confirmed they aren't Sans' leading attack so he'd know bones a thing.
Also I checked, blue bones are the 16th attack used.

Nice try, Sans doesn't even do that with Frisk, all his time stop/TP attack set ups still enabled Frisk to dodge (and he didn't even start doing that till way later in the fight), and as established, Frisk's dodging ain't shit compared to Kars, like it's not even a contest. And the bones and blue bones ain't even faster, only the blasters are faster here.

he cannot know anything while time is stopped.

Doesn't need to, he'd just figure out time stop is a thing after the fact, and account for it and workaround it. Because mind you, Sans while bloodlusted going all out, merely used it to set up attacks, nothing more, nothing less, like if Sans was sandbagging or not going all out with everything he had in his fight, i could understand thinking maybe in a more serious fight he'd use it in wacky ways, but Frisk was the fight of his life.

Thankfully sans has blasters. How can kars dodge those? They are faster than him and one shot. (kinda)

Jump, fly, do what Frisk did and just move into their blindspots where the beams don't cross over, contortion. Reminder that the gaster blasters have obvious tells, the beam is fast, but them spawning in and firing is not, it's no different than dodging a gun, like you might not be able to dodge the bullet but you could in theory aimdodge, but in this case these guns are huge and not at all small and thus hard to see the trajectory, and once spawned in don't move unlike a gun used by a person who can just shift their arm like 5 degrees to compensate you aimdodging.

Kars is not obese lol

This is such a bad argument and ignores how LS works. Kars the moment he wants to move against it, is negdiffing it, and given Kars is probably already in the midst of moving when Sans tries to use it, well...
Stiff breeze fr.

He has to do this in a nano second or something to react which is a horrible NLF. Time stop and start now he sees 10 different attacks and sans in another posi- oh wait he died.

Ignoring the fact Kars quite LITERALLY has beyond nanosecond reaction time
Ya know, bringing up Johnny again, Diego does literally that, set up attacks in his face or in ways he'd have trouble dodging, while moving himself, and Johnny in like every time was able to accurately analyze the situation and scrap by. Kars as mentioned >>> the whole setting in analytical abilities and deduction.
And again, if Frisk could dodge them, Kars can dodge them, it ain't hard, there's a HUGE gap between Frisk and the attacks once time resumes, like unironically 3-7m.

Kars legit just negs gravity/blue mode by existing and does whatever, eventually one shotting Sans, or even outranging or outlasting. Sans wouldn't even be able to beat a squirrel, Kars legit could just throw one at him, one at a time, and see how many Sans can take out before he's exhausted.

I mean that he stomps Frieza in the non canon version lol

Sans Vs. JJ Kars, do it coward

 

[ShionAH]

That isn't our concern, we still use how he behaves in combat, if he's struck by CIS, we still use that as long as it isn't contradicted, which it is not. The thread that gave him time stop to begin with even says he ain't using it in ways he hasn't.
Like, if we had reason to think Sans could logically use his time stop in such ways, that'd be fair, but his fight against Frisk is a double-edged sword, it tells us in a fight he goes balls to the ******* walls all out with danmaku, TK, gravity, and so on, but it also tells us that even in the worst fight of his life, he didn't use time stop like that even if it would've helped.

Jesus, this isn't complicated. If Kars physically avoids the attacks, so does his soul.

Uh, yeah? Most of his time in Ultimate was spent flying. Like my dude, it's literally his render even.
No, he can't, what part of Kars LS is so much above Sans' TK and Blue Mode that it isn't doing anything? You're comparing Class 25 at BEST, vs someone who's index finger eclipses 500 tons. This isn't even a debate. TK and Blue Mode are worthless here.

I know how the ability works, he hits the soul, but he still has to hit the body to bypass the body's physical defenses, to hit the soul.
He hits the soul directly, but if the soul is TIED to the body, he has to hit the body to hit the soul, holy shit.
Sans' attacks bypass durability, they don't bypass the act of having to actually hit the enemy.

Which he can, easily, hell he can dodge them before they even properly spawn with his enhanced senses.

Uh, newsflash, nobody is saying he'd turned into a puddle, we're saying he'll like break his spine, bones, muscles, and stretch himself around the attacks basically, avoiding them completely, without the attacks in question ever actually hitting him like some Mr. Fantastic bullshit.

Easy, he shoots some more? And nobody said the entire underground, I said the hallway, which is entirely possible, even just 10 tentacles instead of pirahnas would be enough.

If your argument is "wow kars would never be able to figure these out lmao", despite explicitly having better analytical and deduction skills than people who have figured out near identical abilities in his verse, idk chief.

Probably why you should've actually responded to the top one, I just named it off.

Dude, you know Kars has a vertical leap of at least 18 meters right? You know he can fly kilometers in the sky right? You know he can just straight up dodge them?
Like my dude, Kars OWN bone blades are comparable to those, it isn't anything special let alone unavoidable.
The small bones wont even have the range to hit Kars, and Sans doesn't use those into well into the fight, this fight aint lasting that long unless Kars decides to outlast, and if he decides to just outlast, Sans instant loses as he has no counter.

They really aren't, even Kars has duraneg, and bones, and just about everybody in this verse has some sort of duraneg, one way or another. Lots being soul-based too.
They're bones, they can be dodged, they will be dodged, they are not special.

I must've said like 5 times Kars would be able to dodge them with his enhanced senses and contortion, or flight, or any of the other options he has. They're faster due to speed equal even though winning like that in speed equal invalidates a match but they still take a moment to fire, Kars can and will be able to easily read their trajectory and dodge the moment they spawn in due to being able to sense air displacement.

3rd attack against someone who can immediately **** off, or even blind you making you unable to even keep track of him or land your attacks because you don't know where he is, is kind of an issue on his end.

Did so immediately against Joseph, which is basically his main fight in Ult so yeah.

No he can't because Sans doesn't have hundreds of meters of range with his attacks.
If Kars just flies up, Sans loses, nothing he has can reach him, not even TK or Blue Mode (despite them both being useless here).

Actually, it probably would, the soul reflects the physical body in JoJo, it's why we got shit like Chariot having no hands or feet in Part 5 because Pol doesn't, or why the souls always look the same as the physical body in JoJo, like Reimi or ghosts. The only real exception I can think of is with Avdol but let's be real, Araki ain't gonna draw Avdol's ghost as being two disembodied hands in a serious scene
But no, you completely misunderstand what people are saying,why the **** would Kars make himself a bigger target? The whole point is to just flat out dodge attacks, if Kars bends his body into a noodle by breaking all his bones, his soul issn't gonna be sticking out of his body or some dumb shit like that.

It does when he can literally fly and control his movement through the air, aka, this would be liek trying to TK Superman through the air, like brother, it ain't working.

Dude, you act like LS is some ability that has to be activated manually, it isn't, it's a matter of moving. Unless Kars stands still, he's always making use of his LS.
Surprise him? Bruh. You ain't surprising him with basic TK that won't even budge him to begin with.

Uh, ngl, I think Emerald Splash is actually the better Danmaku, DIO was able to dodge it initially despite being taken off guard and not expecting it.
ES has more projectiles at play.
Kars >>>>>> DIO.

Really aren't, context is key. He used enough to get what he wanted done, if he needed more, he'd have used more. Kars himself goes on record and explicitly denotes he will do whatever he must to win, he will do everything he can to win, he doesn't care if it's unfair, dirty, or straight up bullshit, he will do it. In this case, we know he can do it, and did something similar.
For one arguing Sans will use his time stop in ways he never had, the fact you're arguing Kars doing this is OOC (It's absolutely not, has precedence, and already did things close to it) is baffling imo.

Yes, near, but not an actual one shot, and only if he lands it for long enough. Meanwhile literally everything Kars does straight up IS a one shot.

Yeah nice try, Sans isn't clairvoyant, he can dodge while sleeping (and even then only barely, he did immediately after to the next one while awake, literally just a 2 hit combo killed Sans), he can't attack shit he doesn't know where it is, you're conflating IR with enhanced senses, and if he had enhanced senses, this would just make it even worse as the blinding light would be even more dazzling.
He being inorganic doesn't mean light doesn't effect him, he sees, all monsters uses lights and lamps and candles and etc, they obviously see light.

Unless Kars decides "maybe i should fire just a few more lol".
You're acting as if he has a limit here.

Bro, that squirrel literally outstats Sans. He ain't doing shit, he grabs it, he's dying to it.
He can't danmaku someone out of range.

"to the point he has to-", my dude, Kars is probably leading with flight, and if he doesn't, dude just backflips out of the way of the first attack and while 5 stories high (out of Sans' range, stated kars vertical jump height btw), he just grows wings and flies.
And "if he gets hit by-", why assume Kars would get hit? He can dodge them even on the ground.

Dude, why would Kars get caught off guard when he's expecting things like that? You already confirmed they aren't Sans' leading attack so he'd know bones a thing.
Also I checked, blue bones are the 16th attack used.

Nice try, Sans doesn't even do that with Frisk, all his time stop/TP attack set ups still enabled Frisk to dodge (and he didn't even start doing that till way later in the fight), and as established, Frisk's dodging ain't shit compared to Kars, like it's not even a contest. And the bones and blue bones ain't even faster, only the blasters are faster here.

Doesn't need to, he'd just figure out time stop is a thing after the fact, and account for it and workaround it. Because mind you, Sans while bloodlusted going all out, merely used it to set up attacks, nothing more, nothing less, like if Sans was sandbagging or not going all out with everything he had in his fight, i could understand thinking maybe in a more serious fight he'd use it in wacky ways, but Frisk was the fight of his life.

Jump, fly, do what Frisk did and just move into their blindspots where the beams don't cross over, contortion. Reminder that the gaster blasters have obvious tells, the beam is fast, but them spawning in and firing is not, it's no different than dodging a gun, like you might not be able to dodge the bullet but you could in theory aimdodge, but in this case these guns are huge and not at all small and thus hard to see the trajectory, and once spawned in don't move unlike a gun used by a person who can just shift their arm like 5 degrees to compensate you aimdodging.

This is such a bad argument and ignores how LS works. Kars the moment he wants to move against it, is negdiffing it, and given Kars is probably already in the midst of moving when Sans tries to use it, well...
Stiff breeze fr.

Ignoring the fact Kars quite LITERALLY has beyond nanosecond reaction time
Ya know, bringing up Johnny again, Diego does literally that, set up attacks in his face or in ways he'd have trouble dodging, while moving himself, and Johnny in like every time was able to accurately analyze the situation and scrap by. Kars as mentioned >>> the whole setting in analytical abilities and deduction.
And again, if Frisk could dodge them, Kars can dodge them, it ain't hard, there's a HUGE gap between Frisk and the attacks once time resumes, like unironically 3-7m.

Kars legit just negs gravity/blue mode by existing and does whatever, eventually one shotting Sans, or even outranging or outlasting. Sans wouldn't even be able to beat a squirrel, Kars legit could just throw one at him, one at a time, and see how many Sans can take out before he's exhausted.

You didnt have to do this bro-

 

[ShionAH]

Shit I forgot the fight and I thought blue bones were the third attack.
Is this fair at all? Blue attack gave an actual possiblity but since its not the third attack it might be a stomp-

 

[Chariot190]

You didnt have to do this bro-

I will always reply to every claim without fail unless i forget

 

[TauanVictor]

Kars FRA

 

[ShionAH]

I will always reply to every claim without fail unless i forget

Actually based