azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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The focusing happened before he was stabbed in the head.
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Gojo VS Makima • (13-2-1) • Grace
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
- Status
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Is that ever actually stated?
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ehhhhWe're doing Sukuna vs Makima once both of their profiles are fixed, dw
how would that even work, I mean sukuna's whole flow is all types of messed up on the wiki
I mean 15F sukuna in yuji is still low 7-B
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Zabazab
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He still couldn't do it though, in the very next page he says "On the verge of death, I understood! The core of Cursed Energy!"
He never says or is stated to be unconscious, you just think he looks like he is. His appearance however is just that of a dying man that is spending all his focus thinking instead of fighting back.
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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I'm not going to explain to you for the 10th time that you don't require explicit confirmation for something that is obviously displayed. At a certain point, you either fulfill your burden of proof to prove he IS conscious outside of "OH he had an epiphany!" or you're stonewalling.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,916
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Makima infront of Sukuna be likeWe're doing Sukuna vs Makima once both of their profiles are fixed, dw
Magicomethkuon
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midkima vs fraudjo
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,916
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Nanami scales to 8-A and currently there is a thread going on for his profile update.
Zabazab
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The fact that he was focusing on something, thinking about how RCT has been explained to him, AND had an epiphany at the verge of death to be able to heal himself with RCT is my proof.
You're the one that needs to prove that he did this all while passed out, or prove that he is capable of thinking and acting while unconscious.
I'm going with the simplest answer: He was conscious. It's you that'd need to prove otherwise.
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Guys, its already over. Discuss this elsewhere like in the ******* Discord you guys are in the same ******* server talking shit 24/7
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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Already explained that this happened prior to the head stab.
Which, again, happened BEFORE THE HEAD STAB, as that's when he began focusing on the RCT.
The only thing that actually lines up with the events and it's something that happened after he'd been stabbed, aka unconscious.
Read above. You're referencing events that you think prove your point while ignoring the fact that they all happened prior to Gojo sustaining head trauma, when he gave up on fighting and focused entirely on RCT.
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yeah that
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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Your mom.
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Shifting my vote to Gojo as well. Interesting fight, I must say. Deathbattle did a great short animation.
Zabazab
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Ik it's over, the Gojo fra train pulled into the station fast this time, but uhhh nuh-uh.
Idk what to tell ya other than there's no suggestion in the story that he was unconscious. It's just said he was on the verge of death. The brain being injured does not equal an auto-KO either.
Focused entirely on trying to figure out RCT, he figured it out while bleeding to death on the ground. On the verge of dying.
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There's also the fact that people simp for both of them but yeah
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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"Idk what to tell ya" aka you don't have a counterargument, since you seemingly don't have a valid response to the fact all the things you say Gojo did after the head stab happened before it. Concession accepted ig.
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Actual brain death is different. Whenever you get shot or stabbed in the brain, whenever brain matter is destroyed would render the consciousness to cease due to not having any brain signals at that point. Toji stabbed Gojo in the head, with a relatively big knife, he's described as consistently destroying his brain as a whole (Not the prefrontal cortex, Sukuna would have said that instead of his brain if that were the case.) and fixing it 24/7.
Sorcerer's also have enhanced Instinctive Reactions, so it's not a unfounded assumption to come to the conclusion that he can apply this subconsciously. This us furthered by the fact that Nanami is capable of subconsciously reacting to protect his soul with cursed Energy against Mahito.
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Go and Jo slams
Zabazab
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I literally cannot respond to you going "nuh-uh" when I say that there is zero confirmation that Gojo wasn't conscious. There is not a single line in Hidden Inventory that indicates he was unconscious when he figured out RCT. You'd need to be the one to prove that he was- and then add it to his profile- which you have not done.
You seem really convinced that Gojo was unconscious, so I'd like to see why.
Gojo did not turn braindead from Toji's blow, and brain matter being destroyed does not, in fact, cause immediate unconsciousness.
Are these instinctive actions strong enough that they could do so without consciousness, such as if they were sleeping/blacked out?
Magicomethkuon
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How many times do I have to teach you this lesson, old devil?
— to: Makima
signed, Satoru Gojo.
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In a similar fashion to how the head isn't dead until 25-30 seconds after decapitation.
No offense but your acting incredibly bias by saying Makima can control the people after decapitation or being shot with bullets meaning they don't have a consciousness anymore vs Gojo being stabbed in the brain, and stabbed in several lethal spots with a knife that negates his CE and CT isn't done by some kind of unconscious act despite us having more evidence.
Gojo got ****** by things he shouldn't even be able to RCT due to Heavenly Invertered Spear but guess what? He still does after he got stabbed in the head and he only ever learnt that after he was stabbed in the head and neck with things that negate his way of healing and attacking.
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I'm waiting for the Gojo and Makima vs "x" character threads, JJK and CSM fans are constantly going at each other, so it would be nice to see them unite against another character/verse.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,916
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azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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???? It's weird how me saying that Gojo didn't start to focus after the head trauma and that the process had already begun before he was injured is such a confusing argument that you cannot fathom a response.
Zabazab
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Gojo is shown to still be on the ground after Toji packed up Geto. The time was way more than 30 seconds.
Makima has direct proof of controlling dead people. Kurose and Tendo were shot in the head and torso, dragged into the woods, and placed in body bags. In fact, the Americans use their Skin Devil contracts to copy their appearances, a Contract which only allows one to use the appearance of corpses. Yet Makima could use conquest on them. It's even on her profile.
There isn't a single mention that he fell unconscious. Afawk he was laying on the ground, wounded, thinking "what the hell was that woman talking about when she tried to explain RCT", until reaching the verge of death where he reached his epiphany.
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Again is the same for Makima.
Again, is contradicted in her literal profile. The very term as we went over above doesn't even mean death, it means before death. She hasn't been shown the direct ability to control the deceased, furthermore you've been making it seem like Conquest has no caveats or weaknesses whatsoever, as if it's capable of instilling conceptual mind hax. Her's is biological, if it's biological then there still needs to be a brain signal for her to hijack.
"Use the appearance of corpses." =/= actual corpses.
Aside from him falling to the ground lifeless, and Toji of all people being convinced he was dead? The dude who can feel vibrations in the air, predict the future via analytical prediction thought Gojo was dead.
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Zabazab
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The life hax on her profile is a mistake, and refers to her showing up with the Hybrids. What her profile does state is that Conquest works posthumously, in the note at the bottom of her page.
Yes, Antemortem Devil Contracts, the Contracts held by Makima's victims of Conquest prior to their death. She is still capable of using the Contracts held by said victims before they died even after they die, which is where the Antemortem comes from.
Kurose, Tendo, Aki, Angel Devil, Zombie Devil, Sawatari, Tolka.
Conquest can be temporarily broken by a powerful surge of emotion, and should not work on a brainless target.
This is headcanon, and contradicts the manga.
You've misunderstood.
The Americans' contract with the Skin Devil allows them to change their own appearance to appear identical to a corpse they have touched. This ability was used to turn into Kurose, confirming that his corpse that they filled with bullets was indeed a corpse.
Even after this, Makima can use Conquest on his corpse to access the Contract he held with the Punishment Devil prior to his death.
I'd chalk it up to minor PIS or CIS for Toji. Also the phrase lifeless ain't accurate, he never died. But he was mortally wounded and was gonna die.
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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Okay, again that's not a mistake. You need to get that fixed within the profile first before you make that claim. The profile itself is contradiction, make a quick CRT if you wish to argue this and I'll even help you.
Keyword "before." And no, Antemortem does not mean after death. That's postmortem. You can bring up the note in her profile, but that same note is directly contradicted by both her profile and the very nature of Conquest. She wouldn't need to target the brain if she could just control the mind itself without using the brain as a method of controlling. As you said, brain signals are done in after death meaning she wouldn't be able to control them since they'd no longer have a mind.
So in turn, your saying she needs to target the brain, which would mean she hijacks brain signals for Conquest but she can also control the dead without brain signals? That's makes zero sense. Her's is biological.
Power broke out of her Conquest without a resistance to mind quest. Your pretending as if Makima's Conquest is some type of be all, end all almighty Star Wars level of mind hax. It isn't. Again, it's been broken by people without resistance to mind hax, according to the profile.
This is like my 17th time telling you, make a CRT or stop arguing that Makima's Conquest works like this.
Literally addressed all of these to which you even agreed you were wrong on. Want me to quote you?
Yet your claiming it does. This is very blatantly contradiction.
Only thing here that's contradiction is you ignoring that Conquest works by targeting the brain of the victim. It's not contradiction, it's a consistent thing with her. If anything the only contradiction is you changing how Conquest works every 6 comments.
Okay, so now that i had to review the definition of Antemortem with you, now I suppose I'll teach you what the definition of similar means. Similar is not a direct comparison, nor does it mean the same. That's essentially Shapeshifting, they don't become an actual corpse, they just gain that appearance.
At this point i'm becoming more annoyed at the fact that your dodging things, leaving out context and ignoring the context to fit your narrative. The skin devil doesnt make you a corpse, it gives you the appearance of the corpse you touch.
Read above. It's a corse, if a corpse has its head cut off and I copy its appearance you'll have a similar appearance. Similarly if someone looks like a girl doesn't make them a girl.
Is a dude with long hair and pretty eyes suddenly a girl just because of his appearance? No.
Read above. Your grasping for straws here.
Okay cool, now i can say the same about Makima with all of her feats. I'd just chalk everything shes done to PIS or CIS.
According to you sure.
Read above.
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Because that tool negates his way of healing.
My guy, even lesser people than Gojo have subconsciously refined their CT's. The very fact that he's constantly destroying his brain and healing it, passively attuing infinity and the fact that he used subconsciously while bleeding out from wounds that would kill anyone (that's not a durability or endurance thing, you can be 6-C but that doesn't mean you have more blood than a normal person.) within seconds. If major arteries are cut you can bleed out in less than a second, Toji targeted all of the major arteries on Gojo spontaneously so Gojo would have bled out even quicker than that figure.
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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I don't think Gojo was dead lol, I do however think if he was conscious while attempting RCT, Toji would've noticed as such with his enhanced senses.
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^ plus like the subconsciously works differently along with his Instinctive Reaction.
I don't think biological mind hax would work against Gojo at least not for long.
Zabazab
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Still a mistake, still only refers to the Hybrids. The reference listed confirms this.
I intend on making a lengthier CRT for Makima, and there are currently 3 active CSM CRTs already (2 are very minor, should only need 1 staff vote), the 3rd is yours.
The voting are already wayyyy over, so I don't see a point in bothering to play by the very clear error on her profile, this argument won't affect the 17-odd votes for Gojo.
You have gotten mixed up in the use of Antemortem, so I'm gonna try to be clear.
Antemortem does not refer to Makima's control over the deceased victim.
Antimortem refers to the Devil Contract that was used by the deceased victim prior to their death.
Makima is using Conquest on the posthumous victim, to access their antemortem contract- the contract they had prior to dying.
The brain does not need to be alive or active for her to use Conquest on it.
Don't need to, it's accepted as working this way.
A dead target can still have a brain...
I'm sorry, you've completely misunderstood everything I said about the Skin Devil, and why I mentioned it.
You're completely misinterpreting everything about Conquest, as well as everything I've said to you.
Lol. Lmao.
Gojo does not have Type 4 immortality, if he dies he's dead forever, and no RCT can save him.
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I woudnt consider this "being at each others throat" but maybe they are and I'm still looking at the good old days of Yhwach vs Kaguya and its relevant goonery.
The idea is peak though
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