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Special Grade Devil's Surgical Nightmare (Gojo and Makima vs Law)

azontr said:
Which... inherently targets Makima...? He has to focus his intent to displace space ON Makima or he wouldn't effect her.
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Literally everything you said there is false.

1: No, she'd be indirectly affected for being around in that space. Law doesn't attack anyone, he manipulates the space within his room.


2: That's not true either. You know Law's room? And how these slashes lack travel time? It's because he's effecting space itself, and whatever is in front of said slash is displaced. It's why nobody can dodge his attacks in verse, because there's no particular target but rather space itself. Anyone who's in that "space." of his is effected because the space they're occupying is effected.
 
Adding onto this, Law isn't attacking anyone via space manipulation. He manipulates space itself, he swings his sword in one direction and whatever is in front of him is automatically displaced. He doesn't need to target anyone is ambutate because they're in his spatial area. He does something within the Room and the whole space is effected.


Here he is fighting Luffy and while doing so his slashes **** up a monkey and trees while not even paying attention to them. "As long as you're within that circle he creates you might as well be patients on his operating table!" Know why? Because he doesn't target anyone, what Law targets is the space that he himself creates.



There is no "intent" targeting Makima, since he's not even targeting her. The intent is for him to effect space, not Makima.



Also I'd really like scans of Makima's contract covering this because this is very quickly becoming a massive No Limits fallacy. Next we're gonna say she can transfer conceptual attacks, she can transfer time manipulation and whatever hax because "she perceives it as an attack."


After all, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If she doesn't have feats of transferring something that she's never been shown to, especially whenever it's above her caliber then you cannot assume as such without feats.
 
LordGinSama said:
No, she'd be indirectly affected for being around in that space. Law doesn't attack anyone, he manipulates the space within his room.
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Bro, I'm going to break this down as simple as I humanly can because you're deadass not getting what I'm saying and it's not fun. Okay:

1. Law manipulates the space in his room. His target is not Makima, but the space which she occupies in his room, we get that.

2. Law manipulates the space Makima occupies to do whatever he does with the abilities his Room grants him. We get this.

3. Law's intention when doing this is to EFFECT Makima through the manipulation of the space she occupies within his room. When he displaces the space she occupies, SHE is getting displaced as well by default, hence Law's desire WAS TO displace Makima. He TARGETS SPACE, to, by default, TARGET MAKIMA, who OCCUPIES THE SPACE HE CONTROLS.

If I have an area I control, yeah? I can control the space within this area- My ability targets the space that anything that enters my area occupies, not the thing itself, to deal unconventional damage. Somebody ENTERS my area, occupying a section of the space. I use my ability to target the space in which they occupy, so that I can spatially displace them into bits. I did TARGET the space, yes, not the person. HOWEVER, my intent was to have the person who entered my area be effected by the space being manipulated, yes? If I did not want them effected, I'd target another section of space they aren't in.

Does, this, make sense to you??
 
Kachon123 said:
Law could probably negate this with Haki, as a Hawkins devil fruit does similar things
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It's not really an inherent power of Makima, though. It's a contract. Which is basically a law that's dependent on an outside source.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
plz guys lets not turn this into another long ass thread of does it bypass the contract
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Ok then I will end it by saying no, it doesn't bypass the contract. Azontr explained pretty thoroughly as to why already.

How about we switch the conversation to... what the **** does Law do against Gojo, who has Information Manipulation Type 2 that affects the soul and body with every one of his attacks? Pretty sure he stomps.
 
LordGinSama said:
Tbh the better argument is that once he tries to RCT from Law's slashes he can't, realizing it doesn't do damage enabling Gojo to blow up the limbs himself so he can RCT them.


Since after that they'd be "damaged." meaning he could RCT once more.
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What happens to disconnected limbs inside the room. Are they still function as per Gojo commands?
 
Kachon123 said:
Wouldn't Room cancel this out because of this?

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Can it even interact with Type 2 Information? If not, then no.

Also, I'm not talking about Gojo's Domain Expansion, btw. Cursed Energy atm can interact with physical and spiritual information.

So literally anything Gojo does can damage Law to a degree he has no way to defend against.

Unless One Piece has Info Type 2 stuff I'm unaware of.
 
Kachon123 said:
How come
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To cancel domain
  • Should attack from outside the domain barriers
  • Inside Sure hit should be equal to opponents sure hit like how Gojo vs Sukuna happened
  • Or Overlap ones domain with better domain
Law room should be considered as like nothing. If Cursed Energy is not present everything will be detected by domain like buildings.
 
azontr said:
Bro, I'm going to break this down as simple as I humanly can because you're deadass not getting what I'm saying and it's not fun. Okay:
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Because what your saying doesn't make logical sense and your also really abusing the **** out of Makima's contract here.
azontr said:
1. Law manipulates the space in his room. His target is not Makima, but the space which she occupies in his room, we get that.
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Yes.
azontr said:
2. Law manipulates the space Makima occupies to do whatever he does with the abilities his Room grants him. We get this.
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So then the intent is to manipulate space, if she gets caught in it that's irrelevant since the goal was never to hit Makima but the space surrounding her. That's his intention, to displace space. Your misinterpreting this as "Law has the intention to attack Makima." If someone is standing in front of him or near him that doesn't mean he had the intention of cutting them, cutting them is a indirect consequence of manipulating space.


Why would that be his direct intention? You think Law intended to cut apart a random primate while in the middle of a 1v1 against Luffy? No, that makes no sense. Things just get affected by him effecting space, he does need to have any sort of intentions since it's a consequence of his DF.



The main intent is to cut space, anything after that is not up to Law to target. Again, his intent is to cut space apart, not to hit Makima with an attack.
azontr said:
3. Law's intention when doing this is to EFFECT Makima through the manipulation of the space she occupies within his room. When he displaces the space she occupies, SHE is getting displaced as well by default, hence Law's desire WAS TO displace Makima.
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That's the indirect consequence and not Law's main intention. You just contradicted yourself by saying "by default." as this is something that happens automatically without Law having to have the intent to do anything.
azontr said:
He TARGETS SPACE, to, by default, TARGET MAKIMA, who OCCUPIES THE SPACE HE CONTROLS.
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HE ISN'T TARGETING MAKIMA FOR THE LAST TIME. Like shit dude, your doing some reaching here to say that Law's target is Makima. It isn't, it's space itself and whatever is caught up in that space is indirectly effected. Key word, indirectly Law doesn't need to have the intent to attack her since the space itself does that.


Again, Makima is not the target, she herself isn't effected it's the space around her that's effected hence why he can displace shit like bodies without harming them. Because the bodies are never interacted with, it's just the space between them that was displaced.
azontr said:
If I have an area I control, yeah? I can control the space within this area- My ability targets the space that anything that enters my area occupies, not the thing itself, to deal unconventional damage. Somebody ENTERS my area, occupying a section of the space. I use my ability to target the space in which they occupy, so that I can spatially displace them into bits. I did TARGET the space, yes, not the person. HOWEVER, my intent was to have the person who entered my area be effected by the space being manipulated, yes? If I did not want them effected, I'd target another section of space they aren't in.
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Again totally different comparisons here, that's your intention from the start. Law's is an indirect consequence, not the direct consequence. The main thing Law does is displace space around the opponent, he doesn't need to intent for them to be the target since space targets them, not Law himself.


Law cuts space in one direction and since hes targeting space whatever occupies that space has the indirect consequence of displacement.
azontr said:
Does, this, make sense to you??
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Nope but you don't read One Piece so I wouldn't expect you to know what I'm talking about on a knowledgeable level.
 
Phoenks said:
How about we switch the conversation to... what the **** does Law do against Gojo, who has Information Manipulation Type 2 that affects the soul and body with every one of his attacks? Pretty sure he stomps.
Click to expand...
I see what your trying to do here and I'm gonna ask you to stop since you've done this with One Piece fans in the past.


Your trying to make it seem like every JJK fan is a wanker here. Nobody ever said he target's the soul with Type 2 information hax on all of his attacks. That applies to one ability being his domain, outside of that Gojo doesn't have a whole lot of durability negation options. Imma ask you not to show your Gojo bias.
 
LordGinSama said:
I see what your trying to do here and I'm gonna ask you to stop since you've done this with One Piece fans in the past.


Your trying to make it seem like every JJK fan is a wanker here. Nobody ever said he target's the soul with Type 2 information hax on all of his attacks. That applies to one ability being his domain, outside of that Gojo doesn't have a whole lot of durability negation options. Imma ask you not to show your Gojo bias.
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???

Uh, I don't even know what to say to this.

It's just legitimately what he does, because the soul and body in JJK are made of information, fundamentally. And cursed energy is able to directly interfere with said information. This is explained when Toji is summoned as the puppet of carnage.

That's how the verse is currently treated, so I'm not sure what all these allegations are about.
 
Phoenks said:
It's just legitimately what he does, because the soul and body in JJK are made of information, fundamentally. And cursed energy is able to directly interfere with said information. This is explained when Toji is summoned as the puppet of carnage.
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It's not accepted anywhere that JJK characters can effect the soul. In JJK its accepted that the soul contains type 2 information, and literally only like 5 characters are capable of interacting with the soul directly. Yuji, Mahito, Nobara, Gojo (with UV.) and Sukuna.



Whoever told you that everyone in JJK can interact with the souls of others is telling you dumb shit.
 
LordGinSama said:
It's not accepted anywhere that JJK characters can effect the soul.
Click to expand...
In JJK the body is the soul, though, so technically they are manipulating the soul by manipulating the body, no?

Also, I don't see why Gojo couldn't do that if even Yuji can do this with basic cursed energy punches.
 
LordGinSama said:
 snip
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Gin, I'm being deadass when I say that I know you're smarter than this.

OF COURSE, Law's ability targets space, and indirectly effects anyone occupying space. This concept doesn't escape me. Repeating it isn't necessary. But if he manipulates the space to indirectly effect something, his intent was to have them be indirectly effected. He specifically targeted the space they occupy to have them being displaced as the consequence of his ability. THAT was his desire.

I don't need to read One Piece to know that Law isn't just blindly using his Devil Fruit power with no intent to ever have anyone be effected by it.
 
Deceived3596 said:
@EldemadeDityjon 4KM going off SBA.
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Ok thanks 👍

Then here is what I think

If Gojo brain can still be conscious and function inside Laws Room. He can just Self destruct with Purple. His own CE doesn't give much damage to Gojo so he will be fine
Or Spam domain with his hand if it's still functioning as for his commands as only 2 fingers is needed to spam the domain

If Gojo brain isn't conscious and can't function
Law might take it
Phoenks said:
In JJK the body is the soul, though, so technically they are manipulating the soul by manipulating the body, no?

Also, I don't see why Gojo couldn't do that if even Yuji can do this with basic cursed energy punches.
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Only Yuji , Mahito and Sukuna can damage Souls normally because they are exceptional.
Gojo is only capable of damaging the soul inside the domain
 
azontr said:
OF COURSE, Law's ability targets space, and indirectly effects anyone occupying space. This concept doesn't escape me. Repeating it isn't necessary. But if he manipulates the space to indirectly effect something, his intent was to have them be indirectly effected. He specifically targeted the space they occupy to have them being displaced as the consequence of his ability. THAT was his desire.
Click to expand...
If I desired to attack Makima but instead punched somewhere she wasn't, would the force of my punch go to a random person? If not, then I don't see why Law's amputate wouldn't effect her.
 
Phoenks said:
In JJK the body is the soul, though, so technically they are manipulating the soul by manipulating the body, no?
Click to expand...
It's a lot more complex than that actually but no. The body is not the soul, that's only Mahito's theory. Which is wrong otherwise everyone and their mothers would be intangible, have soul manipulation and Type 2 information in their profiles.

Also directly debunked by Toji's body overpowering a soul. The soul in JJK is definitely abstract as **** but unfortunately most characters in the verse don't even understand how souls work to begin with.
Phoenks said:
Also, I don't see why Gojo couldn't do that if even Yuji can do this with basic cursed energy punches.
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Yuji is a very special case and he had extensive research from his fight with Mahito and his books from Yuki. Gojo doesn't have access to that, his CT isn't like Yuji's so the best he can do is apply UV to the soul but he himself can't like destroy it.

Granted the JJK CE page does make it seem that way since it's sloppy as fudge, ya just gotta read it slowly.
 
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