Gilgamesh (f/sn) downgrade

[Small_Ophion]

But yeah best to end the thread soon.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Which is from PS1. Lostbelts are their own history are they not?

"But Gil didn't destroy Avalon!" Because there are 2 occasions he's used full power Ea that weren't F/SN that had it as a big attack without any fancy shit, if you don't believe me, show me where anything about F/SN Ea(and ONLY F/sn) where it ***** with time or space.

The first time was against Enkidu who promptly canceled it out becuase that's how his NP works

And the second time was against Tiamat who is tier 1. So you're ****** one way or another

And Tiamat happened in the Mesopotamian underworld. Nowhere near Avalon.

literally in fate ha, also gil in fgo doesnt count towards his servant key, his servant key is the fate f/sn timeline only ( yes,sf in set in an alternate f/sn timeline, since zero still happens)

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I love how everyone is just blatantly ignoring that one of Gil's key personality flaws is that he's arrogant and confident in his abilities to a fault (Literally one of the reasons why he loses in the first vn.)
In fact, iirc, the only reason's why he stopped holding back in F/SF is that 1, Enkidu is there, someone he knows he can fight all out against, and moreso 2, Alcides showed up and made bro crap his pants
But yeah ngl even if Gil himself is saying he's going all out, I's suggest to take it with a grain of salt, simply due to how he is as a character

really just conjecture.

the op wants to downgrade the whole verse since tiamat was killed by a 3D or 4D weapon and she Is a Higher dimensional being

I only want to downgrade f/sn/ non full power gilgamesh? what are you waffling about, it literally said that in the title and op

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

really just conjecture.

You say conjecture, I say important personality traits we see in almost every iteration that should be taken into consideration (As the personality of a character can determine when and how they use their power.)
Minus the last tidbit about what I would suggest people do, none of what I said is conjecture, with the personality statement just being clear and obvious facts that pretty much anyone who's seen the Material first hand would know, and the statement F/SF being what I personally recollect- Which while I could be wrong, isn't really a opinion (Which is what conjecture is- A opinion formed on incomplete info).

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You say conjecture, I say important personality traits we see in almost every iteration that should be taken into consideration (As the personality of a character can determine when and how they use their power.)
Minus the last tidbit about what I would suggest people do, none of what I said is conjecture, with the personality statement just being clear and obvious facts that pretty much anyone who's seen the Material first hand would know, and the statement F/SF being what I personally recollect- Which while I could be wrong, isn't really a opinion (Which is what conjecture is- A opinion formed on incomplete info).

you forget the fact that gilgamesh refuses to use ea because of his pride, let alone using it at full power. Him using ea in of itself is fighting serious

 

[Mageman460]

really just conjecture.

I only want to downgrade f/sn/ non full power gilgamesh? what are you waffling about, it literally said that in the title and op

You realize we already have a tier for non full power Ea. That isn't Tier 1 too. So if this isn't a downgrade, then you are trying to upgrade Ea to Tier 2. Which as pointed out would actually be Tier 1. So uh yeah, hard disagree.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You realize we already have a tier for non full power Ea. That isn't Tier 1 too. So if this isn't a downgrade, then you are trying to upgrade Ea to Tier 2. Which as pointed out would actually be Tier 1. So uh yeah, hard disagree.

Tier: High 6-C, at least Low 6-B with Enuma Elish, Low 1-C with Full Power Enuma Elish

please read the concerned pages before commenting

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I see a lot of people disagreeing but not countering on how ea cant break through avalon

 

[DaReaperMan]

I see a lot of people disagreeing but not countering on how ea cant break through avalon

You wanna know what my just woken-up mine sees here?

""

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I just wanted to add on that in Fate/complete material III: World material - Theory of Magic - Magecraft: Effects on the Level of True Magic, p.049

This is mentioned

So yeah it seems to be that Avalon couldn't be penetrated back then or EA can't pierce through the NP and the NP is an exception to EA's power.

avalon protects attacks up to the 6-th dimension, thats just a nlf. Theres no supporting evidence for servant gil to have low-1c with enuma elish.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You wanna know what my just woken-up mine sees here?

""

its literally the largest anti feat for f/sn gil having l1-c, if you can somehow argue against that, then im willing to resign

 

[DaReaperMan]

avalon protects attacks up to the 6-th dimension, thats just a nlf. Theres no supporting evidence for servant gil to have low-1c with enuma elish.

Except the later work~

 

[DaReaperMan]

Honestly some of my bigger issues with the F/SN Ea stuff is that the power level of Fate was quite a bit different at that time iirc and in general what stuff was capable of has changed, Ea didnt destroy Avalon in F/SN but that doesnt mean it can’t now especially with how much the general power of the series has increased.

@Marshadow29 like, literally just read this

And downgrade all Servants back down to low 7-******-B at max, since you seem to worship the first installment lol

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Except the later work~

his full power key is for fgo and extraverse, his servant key is for the orignal f/sn timeline/sf

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

@Marshadow29 like, literally just read this

And downgrade all Servants back down to low 7-******-B at max, since you seem to worship the first installment lol

ea's servant key is literally f/sn gilgamesh, so thats what i have to use

 

[DaReaperMan]

his full power key is for fgo and extraverse, his servant key is for the orignal f/sn timeline/sf

And we both know you probably haven't read the obscure ass(but good as hell) shit that is F/SF.

Especially since that statement comes from a guy(with the "It's not gay if it's clay" tagline) who is very much so qualified to speak on what can and can't ******* Obliterate the planet/World seeing a he's one of the guys who the counter-force tries to give the long one the most

ea's servant key is literally f/sn gilgamesh, so thats what i have to use

And completely ignore all later works where Gil sure as shit used Ea.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

And we both know you probably haven't read the obscure ass(but good as hell) shit that is F/SF.

Especially since that statement comes from a guy(with the "It's not gay if it's clay" tagline) who is very much so qualified to speak on what can and can't ******* Obliterate the planet/World seeing a he's one of the guys who the counter-force tries to give the long one the most

the whole reason why its l1-c is because the page says it wouldve destroyed avalon, which is never stated in the work, and gets contradicted in the same timeline (sf takes place after a "mystery" route of stay night)

And completely ignore all later works where Gil sure as shit used Ea.

did you read the comment where it says that the servant gil key only uses the sn timeline?

 

[DaReaperMan]

the whole reason why its l1-c is because the page says it wouldve destroyed avalon, which is never stated in the work, and gets contradicted in the same timeline (sf takes place after a "mystery" route of stay night)

did you read the comment where it says that the servant gil key only uses the sn timeline?

How do you know shit doesn't go different? We don't know, so I'd prefer to not assume it's a copy/paste from any of the main 3 routes

You mean the comment that's lying? Literally every Gil appearance that isn't either CCC or the ass-end of Babylon is first key Gil. The last time we had separate keys for separate works was like 2018.

 

[Mageman460]

the whole reason why its l1-c is because the page says it wouldve destroyed avalon, which is never stated in the work, and gets contradicted in the same timeline (sf takes place after a "mystery" route of stay night)

Oh wow, sure is a shame that it's never stated Avalon is in the core of the planet or anything.
Edit for clarity: SARCASM

did you read the comment where it says that the servant gil key only uses the sn timeline?

What are you talking about? What comment? There is no comment on Gil's page about it being only Stay Night Gil.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Oh wow, sure is a shame that it's never stated Avalon is in the core of the planet or anything.

you're hurting your own point by admitting that gil cant destroy the planet.

 

[Mageman460]

you're hurting your own point by admitting that gil cant destroy the planet.

Factually incorrect. Keep your words out of my mouth. Gil is LITERALLY said to be able to destroy the world in Strange Fake. May e if you actually read his profile, you would see that. You would also see that I'm right that Servant Gil is not just Stay Night. Close this thread already.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You mean the comment that's lying? Literally every Gil appearance that isn't either CCC or the ass-end of Babylon is first key Gil. The last time we had separate keys for separate works was like 2018.

the page's title says f/sn. literallya ll of your counter arguments come from that ey

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Factually incorrect. Keep your words out of my mouth. Gil is LITERALLY said to be able to destroy the world in Strange Fake. May e if you actually read his profile, you would see that. You would also see that I'm right that Servant Gil is not just Stay Night. Close this thread already.

This would all include Avalon, residing in the core of the planet, which is a 6-dimensional realm

gilgamesh fails to break through avalon in stay night, while using enuma elish

pick one

 

[Mageman460]

the page's title says f/sn. literallya ll of your counter arguments come from that ey

Once again, Factually incorrect.

Gilgamesh (Fate Series)

Gilgamesh (ギルガメッシュ, Girugamesshu?) is the Archer-class Servant of Tokiomi Tohsaka during the Fourth Holy Grail War. After Tokiomi's death, he reforged a new pact with Kirei Kotomine that lasted until the Fifth Holy Grail War. He is the King of Heroes, the hero of the oldest epic poem in human...

vsbattles.fandom.com

It says, Fate Series.

 

[DaReaperMan]

the page's title says f/sn. literallya ll of your counter arguments come from that ey

"Key: Servant | Genesis Mythology Mystic Code/Original Power"

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Once again, Factually incorrect.

Gilgamesh (Fate Series)

Gilgamesh (ギルガメッシュ, Girugamesshu?) is the Archer-class Servant of Tokiomi Tohsaka during the Fourth Holy Grail War. After Tokiomi's death, he reforged a new pact with Kirei Kotomine that lasted until the Fifth Holy Grail War. He is the King of Heroes, the hero of the oldest epic poem in human...

vsbattles.fandom.com

It says, Fate Series.

Ea (Fate)

The Sword of Rupture, Ea (乖かい離り剣けん「エア」, Kairiken: Ea?) is the ultimate Noble Phantasm of Gilgamesh, a Divine Construct so old that it predates the concept of swords. It is a weapon that is his and his alone, existing only within the Gate of Babylon. It was created by the Gods for the purpose of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Death_of_Lems]

Disagree FRA

 

[Mageman460]

pick one

Have you just been ignoring what literally everyone has been saying about that? About how it's A) An outlier, B) not full power, C) got retconned. Pick one

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Sooo... The Ea page is slightly incorrect, huh. Just change it to be Ea (Fate Series)

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Have you just been ignoring what literally everyone has been saying about that? About how it's A) An outlier, B) not full power, C) got retconned. Pick one

how is it an outlier?

gilgamesh says hes not holding back

retconned how?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

That's it @Marshadow29 , ever since your appearance in this site, you bring nothing but worse things to Nasuverse, you may wanted to help but considering the spam on you did and now thick-headed you are, you did not help at all and at this point the supporters are sick with you i bet

I'm gonna call a staff to close it immediately since Deagonx hasn't responded yet

 

[DaReaperMan]

the page's title says f/sn. literallya ll of your counter arguments come from that ey

You know I have to clown on you for this shit

I know you're looking at the verse section, but bro, if you find a Genesis mystic code lodged in Stay Night somewhere let me know

Ea (Fate)

The Sword of Rupture, Ea (乖かい離り剣けん「エア」, Kairiken: Ea?) is the ultimate Noble Phantasm of Gilgamesh, a Divine Construct so old that it predates the concept of swords. It is a weapon that is his and his alone, existing only within the Gate of Babylon. It was created by the Gods for the purpose of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Yeah, naming conventions for fate works on the wiki can be confusing, Artoria's profile has what's basically a Fate/Zero key and a CCC key despite being labeled the same way(She actually has a reason for multiple keys too)

Saber (Fate/stay night)

Saber (セイバー, Seibā?) is the Saber-class Servant of Kiritsugu Emiya during the Fourth Holy Grail War, and then of his son, Shirou Emiya, during the Fifth. Her actual name is Artoria Pendragon, better known as King Arthur, the "Once and Future King" and a legendary hero of Britain. She became king...

vsbattles.fandom.com

how is it an outlier?

retconned how?

Don't see how this hasnt come up yet, just generally when comes to the amount of feats, statements and showings we have for a lot of stuff they've gotten more impressive over the years.

People seem to forget that F/SN was the very first installment of the franchise and Nasu has never been the most consistent writer too, so obviously there's gonna be a bunch of retcons/power creep here and there as more stuff gets introduced.

EA is simply one of those instances like he barely uses it in F/SN he only really used it proper un F/HA. So with Nasu coming out and saying stuff like FGO made him buff other stories etc.. it shouldn't come as a surprise that a retcon like this took place

A-******-HEM!

 

[Mageman460]

Ea (Fate)

The Sword of Rupture, Ea (乖かい離り剣けん「エア」, Kairiken: Ea?) is the ultimate Noble Phantasm of Gilgamesh, a Divine Construct so old that it predates the concept of swords. It is a weapon that is his and his alone, existing only within the Gate of Babylon. It was created by the Gods for the purpose of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Real shame that the page doesn't use feats from other series other than Stay Night. And it doesn't use feats and statements from Prisma Illya, Strange Fake, or FGO. How can I ever disprove you. Real shame that.

Once again: sarcasm

 

[DaReaperMan]

Real shame that the page doesn't use feats from other series other than Stay Night. And it doesn't use feats and statements from Prisma Illya, Strange Fake, or FGO. How can I ever disprove you. Real shame that.

Once again: sarcasm

It's primary feat(the first one) is literally from Fate/Zero lmfao

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You know I have to clown on you for this shit

I know you're looking at the verse section, but bro, if you find a Genesis mystic code lodged in Stay Night somewhere let me know

The genesis mystic code is no different from ccc gil seeing as thats what gave him 1-c ot begin with

Yeah, naming conventions for fate works on the wiki can be confusing, Artoria's profile has what's basically a Fate/Zero key and a CCC key despite being labeled the same way(She actually has a reason for multiple keys too)

Saber (Fate/stay night)

Saber (セイバー, Seibā?) is the Saber-class Servant of Kiritsugu Emiya during the Fourth Holy Grail War, and then of his son, Shirou Emiya, during the Fifth. Her actual name is Artoria Pendragon, better known as King Arthur, the "Once and Future King" and a legendary hero of Britain. She became king...

vsbattles.fandom.com

A-******-HEM!

Again, you'd have to prove what contradicts what, as we still use scans from the og tsukihime on certian profiles

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It's primary feat(the first one) is literally from Fate/Zero lmfao

fate/zero, strange fake are both part of the stay night time line ( zero is confirmed to happen in strange fake)

 

[Mageman460]

It's primary feat(the first one) is literally from Fate/Zero lmfao

gasp i guess we can disprove it.

The genesis mystic code is no different from ccc gil seeing as thats what gave him 1-c ot begin with

No the genesis Mystic Code is the end of CCC. And Full Power/living Gil is also included I'm the key.

Again, you'd have to prove what contradicts what, as we still use scans from the og tsukihime on certian profiles

Of course we use OG Tsukihime. The remake is completely different. New profiles are in the work for Remake profiles iirc.

fate/zero, strange fake are both part of the stay night time line ( zero is confirmed to happen in strange fake)

Once again, factually incorrect. Zero is confirmed to NOT be connected to Stay Night. A version of what happened in Zero is the prequel to Stay Night. Zero itself is just really close to what happened.

 

[Mageman460]

fate/zero, strange fake are both part of the stay night time line ( zero is confirmed to happen in strange fake)

Also how does this help your point? Like even if they were, that means we'd still include their feats and statements according to you. Which means Low 1-C full power Enuma Elish. Because Strange Fake explicitly says Ea can destroy the world.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The genesis mystic code is no different from ccc gil seeing as thats what gave him 1-c ot begin with

Again, you'd have to prove what contradicts what, as we still use scans from the og tsukihime on certian profiles

Once again, if you find a Genesis mystic code lodged in staynight call me up

The remake is completely different mate

fate/zero, strange fake are both part of the stay night time line ( zero is confirmed to happen in strange fake)

Yeah. Almost like your whole argument relies on assumptions and naming conventions on the wiki.

And then comes Nasu retconning shit, F/SN stuff just being contradicted, and Gilgamesh having multiple reasons to not fire full power Ea and instead the low 6-B one

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

gasp i guess we can disprove it.

No the genesis Mystic Code is the end of CCC. And Full Power/living Gil is also included I'm the key.

this has nothing to do with the first key, which is the subject of this thread. The first key is stated to be able to destroy avalon, even though thats contradicted. no amount of whataboutism is able to counter that