In a vision that never came to pass or was ever going to happen in the first place. In a vision that involves him having struck the instant time erase ceased in a vision against a character so fast it's outright shown to us,
multiple times, that Diavolo and his Stand can't even perceive him moving at all, even even with Epitaph? All based on Diavolo seeing the
end result of a vision and probably just assuming he was a tad faster and that's how he pulled it off in his prediction and that's why he said that? Not knowing the vision was just a giant **** you to him in the first place to him? I mean I get where you're coming from but there's so many issues with this line in particular and the context of it that I can't actually give this line any credence.
The only way King Crimson would ever get a drop on GER is GER if
wanted that, especially when we know for a fact that GER can casually react and avoid his strikes from a ludicrously small distance away, at such a speed, that King Crimson would unironically appear frozen to him even if he wasn't infinite or something.
This part here isn't true at all, but then again, I can't even blame you for it.
Diavolo doesn't see the attacker in erased time just slowed down, he sees every action they would take, and have taken, (supposedly) simultaneously, overlapped at the same time. There's no real motion or movement in play, he's basically seeing the path of everything they would have done layed before him.
Though I definitely get the confusion in regards to this, the anime kinda ****** it completely (Funnily enough even the jojo wiki makes mention of the anime adaption potraying it differently then it should have) and the manga doesn't do the best job at portraying it consistently even if that's how it works in that iteration. Though this is of slight importance because what it actually does (in the manga at least) has zero effect on his speed.
Basically. When King Crimson deletes time, he sees every action someone would have taken in the deleted time, and he then acts accordingly, but the person in question never actually moves from where they began, what Diavolo sees could be described as numerous afterimages (Though in this case it would be "futureimages"), holograms, trails, take your pick, of everything someone will do in the timeframe deleted, but as said, there's not actually any movement going, especially not slow motion movements.
This is best shown in the initial appearance with Bruno. Where Diavolo literally says as much
"I can forecast the trails left by your movements, the trails of your
future actions".
Put simply, Diavolo isn't actually watching someone move, he's basically seeing all the frames of a video layed before him, consider it like a how some fighting games have a frame by frame afterimage effect on some characters in training mode, but just in reverse.
In the example brought up as well, Bruno never actually moves at all, the location and movement he's in when the time erase begins and when it's about to end, he never actually moved.
Here's a breakdown of the first time he used it, as it's a decent example.
Here's some guide scans that mention it in passing (with one outright saying "hey it's just the trajectory that's being shown").
Actually debatable all things considered but at that point we'd have to argue the mechanics of how RTZ is activated and the mechanics of that too. And I don't anyone wants to go down that hole.
Tbh that just comes off as an appeal to me no offense, I honestly don't really care if something is perceived as more broken or not, I just care if the profile is accurate or a downgrade or upgrade is warranted, if not to any of those then I'm going to disagree.
Anyway, as for scan (or scans if we want to discuss the mechanics of King Crimson and RTZ as a whole, but I'm going to assume we aren't going to do that).
Anyway.
In JoJo-A-GoGo, which Giovanna posted fortunately, there's a section in direct reference to his stats (all stands in the book have one taking about their stats and why they are the way they are), that claims that the reason why GER's stats are listed as None and not something else, is because, there's no way that the Stand stats are even capable of quantifying his abilities with a scale that other stands use.
Of course one could say "It's talking about his ability RTZ", which is half true, the line is explicitly talking about all his stats, but it does make mention of RTZ, but that doesn't mean RTZ is what it's talking about in the first line nor is all his stats being None a representation of RTZ and not his own abilities (Attack Power is a blatant example of it being None, because it definitely aint talking about RTZ, given RTZ has zero offensive capability and the same guide says GER's attack power is the highest among all Stands and as such can even be considered the Ultimate Stand even disregarding RTZ).
To clarify what I said above about attack power, in the same guide it says that GER's attack output exceeds all existing Stands (which doesn't really do anything but clarify the "His stats straight up can't be quantified compared to other Stands, because they're simply above them" is legit given one such stat is outright stated to exceed every other Stand in the very same book).
Ergo, GER's speed > BIG and MIH as both are able to be quantified with the Stand stats, of which they're granted Infinity for various reasons and GER, on the contrary, GER is listed as None, because of being impossible to compare to existing Stands via superiority.
Do they start out infinite? Well BIG might depending on how you think it functions, but MIH takes awhile, but that doesn't actually change the fact that they
can hit infinite and it can be quantified even still and their stats are them at their best, not initially, but GER's speed still can't.
The whole "MIH doesn't start out infinite so it doesn't count" is completely irrelevant, because his stats are talking about MIH when he
does hit infinite, which is kinda why his speed is listed as "Infinite" in the first place.
Also I'd still argue the time erase feat is legit but that'd have to involve deconstructing and explaining the exact mechanics of King Crimson and it's interaction with time and the real world outside of its ability and I don't know if that's a hole we want to go down, hell I don't know if that's a hole even I wnat gto go down, it's a meme for a reason after all.
Now, I see it's being said that the None is referring to his ability, not his stats, which is half true, it's a mix of both. (Though Staying is usually the "Ability Stat").
Also, because it was mentioned, the profile saying that BIG's stat can be translated as Unlimited and thus could be hyperbole is really true.
The original japanese scans list BIG's speed, Staying and Range as all Infinite (Staying because it's immortal and can't die and will just resurrect itself or regen if killed and range because it isn't attached to a host and thus isn't bound to anything and can go as far or anywhere it wants). There's no possible way to translate it different, because the scans use the mathematical Infinity symbol that I'm sure we're all used to and are well aware of, and you kinda can't translate a symbol that is literally defined as being the mathematical universal symbol for infinity across most known languages to mean anything but Infinity. Tbh, I don't even know why that's on the profile, I couldn't find a CRT on it or even a Q&A about it.
Here's every iteration of BIG's stats that I could find, as well as a comparison. In case there was any doubt.
I guess I should also comment on the notion of "Diavolo said GER was just a power up in regards to stats". He did say that, but he said that while being bordering on denial and desperation and only after having being blitzed to an impossible degree (To the point he probably didn't even realize he was blitzed) and being unable to even react properly without aim dodging and precognizing the aftermath of a simple
pebble he flicked.
Diavolo was going off GER being just a big power up off of GER casually flicking a pebble so hard he couldn't perceive it and it blew a hole through his hand and still had enough force to cave in the side of a building, all the while in denial and desperate at the fact he's suddenly at a huge disadvantage and trying to convince himself he still is winning and invincible. Spoiler warning, he learned the hard way he wasn't shit. GER is more than just a simple power up in regards to physicals is my point here, GE and GER aren't even in the same ballpark at the absolute worst.
In this situation, if we're told that a Stand is above every other Stand that it outright can't be quantified, it's above every other Stand. This isn't the same situation as "Star Platinum and Kiss both have an A in attack so that means they both are equally as strong", no, there's way more in play in regards to them or other stands, especially when stats are more like benchmarks and tiers kinda like how we use tiers, two tier 4's may both be tier 4 but not 100% equal, here it's just a simple "He's above them", ergo, he's above whatever they get. Straightforward.
That's extremely uncalled for if you're saying what I think you're saying.
Now, to list off/summarize the current points without actually getting into the clusterfuck that is King Crimson.
1. GER could act and react in erased time. (Not considered a valid feat anymore as per standards, though pretty sure it still checks out if you actually go through the effort of deconstructing how the ability works as a whole and how it interacts with the world, but ignore this point if you want).
2. Can't be perceived at all by anyone, not even King Crimson (Casually flicked a pebble so fast Diavolo outright says he didn't actually see the attack or what GER did, all he seen was a hole appear in his hand in Epitaph and dodged ahead of time, the only reason he didn't die was because he had precognition and even in said precognition he couldn't perceive any attack, just the aftermath. Also, GER managed to break out of its shell, heal and move Giorno, move around Diavolo, go behind him and then float in the air, all the while King Crimson was mid punch looking directly at him in the middle of caving the shell in. GER did all that in a timeframe that isn't even shown, in front of everyone).
Of course this point wouldn't give anyone an infinite rating, but it does shut down any "Diavolo or someone reacted to him" arguments, if Diavolo reacted to GER, it's because he
let him react (Which does indeed happen at one point). (And because it's been mentioned again, Diavolo himself says he couldn't perceive the attack of GER, said attack being a pebble flick, so no Diavolo never reacted to the flick, he outright says he didn't see GER actually perform the flick even in Epitaph).
3. GER's stats are listed as "None", because it's impossible to measure its stats the way other Stands are quantified. Of course one could argue semantics in regards to this, but at the end of the day at least
some facet of it is above MIH and BIG, as those two can be quantified, both of which are rated as Infinite due to their best capacity. Infinite is something that can be quantified but GER's speed can not. And yes, that line is explicitly talking about his stats and in the same guide it goes on to say that GER's attack output exceeds every Stand (Which only serves to clarify why his Attack stat is None and can't be measured, because it's to damn high).
4. For what it's worth, GER managed to casually blitz a bloodlusted MIH in the thing that shall not be named.
Regardless, even if you ignore the time erase moving feat, GER still scales above MIH and BIG as GER's stats are impossible to measure while MIH and BIG can, in which they're infinite. (And to clarify one final time, Big is a bit funky in how it functions but MIH is explicitly capable of reaching Infinite speeds and as such is granted an Infinite rating to convey that, as that's literally what it is).
At the very least,
something is infinite, something about GER's speed is above every other Stand. Even if, for some reason, you want to say it doesn't apply to his physical stats, which is, best case scenario, subjective and open to interpretation, it would at the very least mean RTZ is infinite in speed if one wants to say it's strictly talking about his ability which I can understand the thinking behind even if I'm not entirely on board with it, but
something is infinite.
The best I can do is "At least
Massively FTL, likely higher" due to being completely imperceivable to what is essentially a God Tier speed Stand. And "
Infinite with RTZ", due to, at the very least,
that scaling above infinite Stands among other things even if you say it's strictly only talking about the ability.
Ergo, "At least
Massively FTL, likely higher,
Infinite with RTZ".
Best I can do here, though tbh I still think GER itself warrants Infinite as a whole for several reasons but eh, I really can't afford to argue this right now, bordering on outright can't argue (Im only gonna be able to respond like once or twice a day here if this drags on).
anyway.
Here's the scans I posted in one place.
BIG scans. (Mostly just a bunch of inifinte's, a comparison and some explanations).
King Crimson Bruno scene. (Minor breakdown of it in case it's confusing).
King Crimson trajectory forecast misc info (Nothing drastic, just a few scans).
MIH stats. (Literally just two scans).
The JoJo-A-GoGo GER scan (already posted).
