Genshin Tier 4 CRT

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

2 team members and enough to close a CRT? I find it difficult for anyone else to be interested in reading the topic.

No, what i mean is to ask theie inputs again since there has been more arguments ever since their latest appearance in this thread

 

[Qawsedf234]

Alright, I have awakened from my audit induced slumber. What exactly are the new arguments being presented for this.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Dog3352 @GarrixianXD Time to summarise the new arguments/counterpoint that has been presentes here

 

[Dog3352]

@Dog3352 @GarrixianXD Time to summarise the new arguments/counterpoint that has been presentes here

I think it's easier to read our last 4 comments because I don't even know how to explain my point.

I recommend reading GarrixianXD's comment sent on "sunday at 02:10" is the 3 comments below, they are the most important.

 

[Dog3352]

Alright, I have awakened from my audit induced slumber. What exactly are the new arguments being presented for this.

I would like to ask if you can change the "reality warping" for dream manipulation, since all the events of Sumeru were nothing more than one (several if you count the other "spaces") dream.

Paimon: People in Sumeru think they don't dream, but the truth is, the Akasha steals their dreams without them knowing it.
Paimon: And those spaces with no human presence are stolen dreams without their host? That would explain why they sounded so weird when (he/she) was trying to describe them...
Paimon: Huh, so people in Sumeru do dream after all. In fact, we're all in one big dream together right now!
Nahida: Correct answer. Now, how did you conclude that the Akasha is capable of this?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Alright, I have awakened from my audit induced slumber. What exactly are the new arguments being presented for this.

Have you finally readed the whole arguments?

 

[GarrixianXD]

My apologies for delaying this thread. Anyway, I've pretty much given out the entirety of my propositions here and the only hope is for a Genshin contributor to give a shit about this CRT. My arguments about AP and its Universal Energy system are all displayed. I'll only be willing to answer simple questions instead of conversing into heated debates and writing shit tons of paragraphs, etc. I haven't caught up on Genshin for a while and I'll admit not all my propositions are one-hundred percent concise, however, feel free to take a look anyways if you're interested. By the way, the arguments about canons whether or not the wiki recognizes it is really up to the mods if I'm right or not, nonetheless, thank you all for your contributions.

I would like to ask if you can change the "reality warping" for dream manipulation, since all the events of Sumeru were nothing more than one (several if you count the other "spaces") dream.

Paimon: People in Sumeru think they don't dream, but the truth is, the Akasha steals their dreams without them knowing it.
Paimon: And those spaces with no human presence are stolen dreams without their host? That would explain why they sounded so weird when (he/she) was trying to describe them...
Paimon: Huh, so people in Sumeru do dream after all. In fact, we're all in one big dream together right now!
Nahida: Correct answer. Now, how did you conclude that the Akasha is capable of this?

Since being an abstract =/= being reality itself, I'd agree

 

[Dog3352]

I just want people to come and get this CRT gone soon, it's been open for months.

 

[MysticCarnage]

I’m still new but I disagree

Isn’t this a large outlier, also if everyone scales to this it would be an even larger outlier, but I don’t know much sorry

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I just want people to come and get this CRT gone soon, it's been open for months.

Ask @Qawsedf234 and @Planck69 to come again, i did it with Planck but he never reappeared in this thread

 

[GarrixianXD]

I’m still new but I disagree

Isn’t this a large outlier, also if everyone scales to this it would be an even larger outlier, but I don’t know much sorry

Isn't an outlier if it recurred and stated more than once

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Isn't an outlier if it recurred and stated more than once

Yet it still being disproven a lot and majority disagreed with it so just give up already

 

[GarrixianXD]

Yet it still being disproven a lot and majority disagreed with it so just give up already

Technically I did

 

[GarrixianXD]

@Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus @Nehz_XZX @Planck69 @DarkGrath

 

[ZENZUYA]

its fixed now, but someone made Venti and Zhongli 4-C and 2-A lmao

What!?

 

[Deagonx]

Closing at OPs request

 

[Dereck03]

Unlocking per OP's request.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I thought it has been rejected, what's new?

 

[GarrixianXD]

Alright, time to revive this discussion and pray to god that my sins will be forgiven.

UNIVERSAL ENERGY SYSTEM

The Universal Energy System of Genshin is elementary energy wielded by allogenes and adepti energy is a variant of the UES.

As stated by the messages shown above, Qiqi's ability all has the term "Adepti Energy" in it and adding to the fact that Qiqi is also an adepti, we can confirm that adeptal power is a type of energy part of the Universal Energy System of Genshin. Waijing is a method of sub-space creation that allows the user to create pocket dimensions out of their imagination.

Sub-Space Creation

Sub-Space Creation or Waijing (Chinese: 外景 Wàijǐng, "Outdoor Scene")[1] is an adeptal ability used to create small, autonomous pocket worlds through imagination.[1][2] This ability was a blessing from Rex Lapis and has been used during troubling times for some brief respite.[3] Even though it is...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Sub-Space Creation or Waijing (Chinese: 外景 Wàijǐng, "Outdoor Scene")[1] is an adeptal ability used to create small, autonomous pocket worlds through imagination.[2][1]

This ability was a blessing from Rex Lapis and has been used during troubling times for some brief respite.[3] Even though it is a powerful adeptal ability, it does have limitations: one cannot build a whole city inside, since it is not a true world.[4]

From the description above, we can conclude that Waijing is an adeptal ability and therefore functions through the harness of adeptal energy.

The doubts about the legitimacy of this ability bases on the concept of it being "imaginary" and the realm itself is not supposed to be real. However, I'm not arguing for the destruction of its space and time but for the star contained in the realm.

Serenitea Pot

The Serenitea Pot or Realm Within (colloquially also known as Teapot, Housing, Homeland, or Player Housing) is a system in Genshin Impact that allows the player to create their own home. Players interact with the system using a gadget of the same name. Players can request to visit their friend's...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

The Serenitea Pot is a pocket dimension created through "Waijing", and all of the materials contained in the realm is all real and tangible despite the realm itself being "fake".

Serenitea Pot

The Serenitea Pot or Realm Within (colloquially also known as Teapot, Housing, Homeland, or Player Housing) is a system in Genshin Impact that allows the player to create their own home. Players interact with the system using a gadget of the same name. Players can request to visit their friend's...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

As we see from that section of the article, the Traveler can create furnishing materials out of resources harvested from Teyvat (which is Genshin's main world, therefore it's real).



The Traveler can stand, run, and pretty much move freely around the realm and interact with the tangible matter in the realm.

Logically speaking, all of the furnishing material inside of the realm can be inferred as "tangible" and for it to interact with the Earth inside the realm, the ground has to be tangible as well. Therefore, if the Earth is tangible then the star of the realm has to be tangible as well.

Another doubt is that the "star" within the realm isn't an actual star, but rather a light source which well... I don't have much to counteract with that. Many people would juxtapose the "sun" in the realm and the light source in Enkanomiya. However, if you watch closely many parts of Enkanomiya are quite dark compared to many well-lightened places on Earth not to mention the entire territory is underground.



And not even the entirety of Enkanomiya is lightened. So we can conclude that the light source in Enkanomiya isn't entirely the same as the "sun" in the sub-space pocket dimensions, visually speaking. And logically speaking, we wouldn't consider a star that lights up a planet not to be a star which also applies to this case, where the "sun" of the realm not being the size of a star is less likely.

Haxes for Nahida and Il Dottore
I currently have nothing major to clarify on that and much of it has been explained on the main OP of this thread.
@Amost6x @Giannysmag @Aether2734 @DarkGrath @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @DarkDragonMedeus

I thought it has been rejected, what's new?

Not rejected, I just gave up and restarted again.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So what are the conclusion from the new arguments here?

Also Dereck, ping the folks that was being mentioned by Garrixian above, and @Dog3352 as well

 

[GarrixianXD]

So what are the conclusion from the new arguments here?

Also Dereck, ping the folks that was being mentioned by Garrixian above, and @Dog3352 as well

@Dog3352

I have pinging privileges now so no need for Dereck to handle that.

I clarified about the Universal Energy System of Genshin which was the main doubt that adeptal abilities scaled from the UES.

 

[Dereck03]

Also Dereck, ping the folks that was being mentioned by Garrixian above, and @Dog3352 as well

She got ping rights so no need.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Alright, time to revive this discussion and pray to god that my sins will be forgiven.

UNIVERSAL ENERGY SYSTEM

The Universal Energy System of Genshin is elementary energy wielded by allogenes and adepti energy is a variant of the UES.

As stated by the messages shown above, Qiqi's ability all has the term "Adepti Energy" in it and adding to the fact that Qiqi is also an adepti, we can confirm that adeptal power is a type of energy part of the Universal Energy System of Genshin. Waijing is a method of sub-space creation that allows the user to create pocket dimensions out of their imagination.

Sub-Space Creation

Sub-Space Creation or Waijing (Chinese: 外景 Wàijǐng, "Outdoor Scene")[1] is an adeptal ability used to create small, autonomous pocket worlds through imagination.[1][2] This ability was a blessing from Rex Lapis and has been used during troubling times for some brief respite.[3] Even though it is...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

This ability was a blessing from Rex Lapis and has been used during troubling times for some brief respite.[3] Even though it is a powerful adeptal ability, it does have limitations: one cannot build a whole city inside, since it is not a true world.[4]

From the description above, we can conclude that Waijing is an adeptal ability and therefore functions through the harness of adeptal energy.

The doubts about the legitimacy of this ability bases on the concept of it being "imaginary" and the realm itself is not supposed to be real. However, I'm not arguing for the destruction of its space and time but for the star contained in the realm.

Serenitea Pot

The Serenitea Pot or Realm Within (colloquially also known as Teapot, Housing, Homeland, or Player Housing) is a system in Genshin Impact that allows the player to create their own home. Players interact with the system using a gadget of the same name. Players can request to visit their friend's...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

The Serenitea Pot is a pocket dimension created through "Waijing", and all of the materials contained in the realm is all real and tangible despite the realm itself being "fake".

Serenitea Pot

The Serenitea Pot or Realm Within (colloquially also known as Teapot, Housing, Homeland, or Player Housing) is a system in Genshin Impact that allows the player to create their own home. Players interact with the system using a gadget of the same name. Players can request to visit their friend's...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

As we see from that section of the article, the Traveler can create furnishing materials out of resources harvested from Teyvat (which is Genshin's main world, therefore it's real).



The Traveler can stand, run, and pretty much move freely around the realm and interact with the tangible matter in the realm.

Logically speaking, all of the furnishing material inside of the realm can be inferred as "tangible" and for it to interact with the Earth inside the realm, the ground has to be tangible as well. Therefore, if the Earth is tangible then the star of the realm has to be tangible as well.

Another doubt is that the "star" within the realm isn't an actual star, but rather a light source which well... I don't have much to counteract with that. Many people would juxtapose the "sun" in the realm and the light source in Enkanomiya. However, if you watch closely many parts of Enkanomiya are quite dark compared to many well-lightened places on Earth not to mention the entire territory is underground.



And not even the entirety of Enkanomiya is lightened. So we can conclude that the light source in Enkanomiya isn't entirely the same as the "sun" in the sub-space pocket dimensions, visually speaking. And logically speaking, we wouldn't consider a star that lights up a planet not to be a star which also applies to this case, where the "sun" of the realm not being the size of a star is less likely.

Haxes for Nahida and Il Dottore
I currently have nothing major to clarify on that and much of it has been explained on the main OP of this thread.
@Amost6x @Giannysmag @Aether2734 @DarkGrath @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @DarkDragonMedeus


Not rejected, I just gave up and restarted again.

Looks great too me.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Universal Energy System of Genshin is elementary energy wielded by allogenes and adepti energy is a variant of the UES.

I'm not seeing a page for the energy system, so why would it be UES?

Also like

Even though it is a powerful adeptal ability, it does have limitations: one cannot build a whole city inside, since it is not a true world.

How can you both say its not large enough for a city to exist in but is large enough for a an object millions of times the volume of a planet to exist in? It sounds like a contradictory argument.

 

[Arkenis]

Alright, time to revive this discussion and pray to god that my sins will be forgiven.

UNIVERSAL ENERGY SYSTEM

The Universal Energy System of Genshin is elementary energy wielded by allogenes and adepti energy is a variant of the UES.

As stated by the messages shown above, Qiqi's ability all has the term "Adepti Energy" in it and adding to the fact that Qiqi is also an adepti, we can confirm that adeptal power is a type of energy part of the Universal Energy System of Genshin. Waijing is a method of sub-space creation that allows the user to create pocket dimensions out of their imagination.

Sub-Space Creation

Sub-Space Creation or Waijing (Chinese: 外景 Wàijǐng, "Outdoor Scene")[1] is an adeptal ability used to create small, autonomous pocket worlds through imagination.[1][2] This ability was a blessing from Rex Lapis and has been used during troubling times for some brief respite.[3] Even though it is...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

This ability was a blessing from Rex Lapis and has been used during troubling times for some brief respite.[3] Even though it is a powerful adeptal ability, it does have limitations: one cannot build a whole city inside, since it is not a true world.[4]

From the description above, we can conclude that Waijing is an adeptal ability and therefore functions through the harness of adeptal energy.

The doubts about the legitimacy of this ability bases on the concept of it being "imaginary" and the realm itself is not supposed to be real. However, I'm not arguing for the destruction of its space and time but for the star contained in the realm.

Serenitea Pot

The Serenitea Pot or Realm Within (colloquially also known as Teapot, Housing, Homeland, or Player Housing) is a system in Genshin Impact that allows the player to create their own home. Players interact with the system using a gadget of the same name. Players can request to visit their friend's...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

The Serenitea Pot is a pocket dimension created through "Waijing", and all of the materials contained in the realm is all real and tangible despite the realm itself being "fake".

Serenitea Pot

The Serenitea Pot or Realm Within (colloquially also known as Teapot, Housing, Homeland, or Player Housing) is a system in Genshin Impact that allows the player to create their own home. Players interact with the system using a gadget of the same name. Players can request to visit their friend's...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

As we see from that section of the article, the Traveler can create furnishing materials out of resources harvested from Teyvat (which is Genshin's main world, therefore it's real).



The Traveler can stand, run, and pretty much move freely around the realm and interact with the tangible matter in the realm.

Logically speaking, all of the furnishing material inside of the realm can be inferred as "tangible" and for it to interact with the Earth inside the realm, the ground has to be tangible as well. Therefore, if the Earth is tangible then the star of the realm has to be tangible as well.

Another doubt is that the "star" within the realm isn't an actual star, but rather a light source which well... I don't have much to counteract with that. Many people would juxtapose the "sun" in the realm and the light source in Enkanomiya. However, if you watch closely many parts of Enkanomiya are quite dark compared to many well-lightened places on Earth not to mention the entire territory is underground.



And not even the entirety of Enkanomiya is lightened. So we can conclude that the light source in Enkanomiya isn't entirely the same as the "sun" in the sub-space pocket dimensions, visually speaking. And logically speaking, we wouldn't consider a star that lights up a planet not to be a star which also applies to this case, where the "sun" of the realm not being the size of a star is less likely.

Haxes for Nahida and Il Dottore
I currently have nothing major to clarify on that and much of it has been explained on the main OP of this thread.
@Amost6x @Giannysmag @Aether2734 @DarkGrath @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @DarkDragonMedeus


Not rejected, I just gave up and restarted again.

Is this power an issue for them? Like how hard is it to do Waijing?

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'm not seeing a page for the energy system, so why would it be UES?

Does a page creation need to be required to validate the verse's Universal Energy system?

Also like

How can you both say its not large enough for a city to exist in but is large enough for a an object millions of times the volume of a planet to exist in? It sounds like a contradictory argument.

My educated guess of what they meant is that the Traveler can't build an entire city due to its world boundaries. The Traveler can't pass the territory beyond the red territory displayed on the map.

However, you can see land and territory beyond the map. It's kinda like Minecraft where there's a world limit, where the player can't pass it but there is land beyond the world limit.

I can't find a clip of a player going to the edge of the map but I can screen record and pray that the video can be uploaded.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Is this power an issue for them? Like how hard is it to do Waijing?

Only certain adepti/gods such as Guizhong, Madame Ping, and Zhongli have that ability so it's quite difficult.

 

[Vietthai96]

Hmm, that Sub-Space ability look like Subjective Reality and Pocket Reality Manipulation to me, i'm not comment on other things though

 

[Qawsedf234]

Does a page creation need to be required to validate the verse's Universal Energy system?

It doesn't, but if it doesn't exist I would like to see the mechanics of the power system.

My educated guess of what they meant is that the Traveler can't build an entire city due to its world boundaries. The Traveler can't pass the territory beyond the red territory displayed on the map.

I mean if the world is imaginary, has a definitive size limit and the only source of light in the realm is something that's quadrillions of times larger than that size limit I'm going to go with it not being a real star.

 

[Arkenis]

Only certain adepti/gods such as Guizhong, Madame Ping, and Zhongli have that ability so it's quite difficult.

So only some would end up tier 4?

 

[GarrixianXD]

It doesn't, but if it doesn't exist I would like to see the mechanics of the power system.

Should I create a page about it then?

I mean if the world is imaginary, has a definitive size limit and the only source of light in the realm is something that's quadrillions of times larger than that size limit I'm going to go with it not being a real star.

There's not much lore behind that but the world was never stated to be Infinite. Well, if the Earth of the realm is real wouldn't logically speaking the star should also be real?

So only some would end up tier 4?

Only Zhongli and Raiden Shogun. We don't have profiles for Guizhong and Madame Ping.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Should I create a page about it then?

If they have more than like, three powers or something it wouldn't hurt. But I meant more explaining to me how the UES mechanics work for Genshin Impact.

Well, if the Earth of the realm is real wouldn't logically speaking the star should also be real?

The ground/visible area can be real without needing the star and planet to be real. It just needs to exist in an either with a light source, which is very double for a sub-dimension.

 

[GarrixianXD]

If they have more than like, three powers or something it wouldn't hurt. But I meant more explaining to me how the UES mechanics work for Genshin Impact.

It's quite simple. It's pretty much elementary energy that can be used for creation and destruction, akin to Ki in Dragon Ball where it could be applied to various methods and concepts.

Energy

Energy is the resource used to execute Elemental Bursts. The amount of energy required for each Elemental Burst varies and can be checked in-game via the Skill Attributes section of a character's Talents menu. After a character uses their Elemental Burst, their energy is completely drained. A...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

The ground/visible area can be real without needing the star and planet to be real. It just needs to exist in an either with a light source, which is very double for a sub-dimension.

It only mentioned that the "world" itself is imaginary but never specifically took in matter that consists there, which includes the "sun".

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Only Zhongli and Raiden Shogun. We don't have profiles for Guizhong and Madame Ping.

Facepalm
I thought this will scale to a lot's of top tiers but turns out only the two lel
Tho are those two will retain their tier 6 rating? Also should Neuvillette scaled to Zhongli and Raiden?

 

[GarrixianXD]

Facepalm
I thought this will scale to a lot's of top tiers but turns out only the two lel
Tho are those two will retain their tier 6 rating? Also should Neuvillette scaled to Zhongli and Raiden?

Neuvillette only one-shotted Childe from what I've seen. I haven't been kept up with the Fontaine arc of Genshin so I'm unsure if he has feats that'll rival Zhongli and Raiden, but I think it's unlikely.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Neuvillette only one-shotted Childe from what I've seen. I haven't been kept up with the Fontaine arc of Genshin so I'm unsure if he has feats that'll rival Zhongli and Raiden, but I think it's unlikely.

Dragon Sovereigns should be on par if not stronger than the Archons iirc, so that could help in this case

 

[GarrixianXD]

Dragon Sovereigns should be on par if not stronger than the Archons iirc, so that could help in this case

Oh, alright then.

I forgot about Azhdaha, lol.

 

[Giannysmag]

There's a lot to comment on here, gonna drop a full response later today

 

[Naito-desu]

Dragon Sovereigns should be on par if not stronger than the Archons iirc, so that could help in this case

Neuvilette after the Archon Quest is definitely on par if not stronger than the Archons lmfao

Fontaine just drops some more interesting ideas and concepts, including the concept of 'Authority' that allowed Neuvilette to do more extensive magic than the Hydro Archon, a possibly quantifiable amount of energy needed to kill an Archon, Neuvilette now becoming a fully-fledged dragon now empowered by the Hydro Archon's divinity given to him + his current power, the All-Devouring Narwhal, etc.

I think considerations of an UES in Genshin Impact needs to factor in the various individual energies like the Leyline Energies, Indemnitium/Arkhe System, Elemental System, Adeptal Energies, and how they interact with each other because each nation clearly has its own unique energy that manifests differently.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Oh, alright then.

I forgot about Azhdaha, lol.

Oh, Azhdaha will be scaled to Zhongli?
Granted Azdhaha isn't confirmed to be one of Sovereigns so i dunno if we can scaled him to Neuv, unless i misunderstood what you said here lel, maybe Gianny can help for this

Put me in true neutral atm, the matter of outcome of this thread will depending from Qawsed conclusion