Genshin Tier 4 CRT

[JirensMom]

You have a better shot at getting 5-B using the All Devouring Narwhal’s statement of being able to survive the planet’s destruction.

 

[Dog3352]

I saw this statement, despite it being a bit "weak", Neuvillete says that the whale (I'll call it that) had already sucked so much energy from the primordial sea that it basically became the primordial sea itself, and that because of this, even if Teyvat was destroyed, she would survive and go to another world.
It's kind of hard to say whether this is a matter of durability, or something involved with the fact that the whale "became one" with the primordial sea, besides, the primordial sea already enveloped all of Teyvat, so it wouldn't be unthinkable to say that the primordial sea would not cease to exist with the destruction of the planet, and that it would not even be affected by its destruction.

 

[Giannysmag]

I saw this statement, despite it being a bit "weak", Neuvillete says that the whale (I'll call it that) had already sucked so much energy from the primordial sea that it basically became the primordial sea itself, and that because of this, even if Teyvat was destroyed, she would survive and go to another world.
It's kind of hard to say whether this is a matter of durability, or something involved with the fact that the whale "became one" with the primordial sea, besides, the primordial sea already enveloped all of Teyvat, so it wouldn't be unthinkable to say that the primordial sea would not cease to exist with the destruction of the planet, and that it would not even be affected by its destruction.

Kinda related but isn't Teyvat just the continent rather than the entire planet?

 

[Dog3352]

Kinda related but isn't Teyvat just the continent rather than the entire planet?

No, is the planet, Fontaine is the continent.

 

[Giannysmag]

No, is the planet, Fontaine is the continent.

I am sure it was mentioned somewhere that Teyvat is a continent, but i can't remmeber where

 

[JirensMom]

Kinda related but isn't Teyvat just the continent rather than the entire planet?

Official Genshin page calls Teyvat “The World” so yeah it’s most likely the planet.


Also is it possible to Calc The Whale flooding all of Fontaine? We might get good results from that

 

[Dog3352]

I am sure it was mentioned somewhere that Teyvat is a continent, but i can't remmeber where

It would be strange if this was mentioned, since literally everything (item descriptions, characters' lines and statements, written in books, Paimon, game information given, loading screens) says that Teyvat is the planet, this information is already given in the Start by Paimon.
There are only 7 nations/"continents" in Teyvat, and none of them are called Teyvat (as that is the name of the planet).

 

[Dog3352]

Also is it possible to Calc The Whale flooding all of Fontaine? We might get good results from that

What would flood Teyvat was the sea itself, there's no way to really know the power level of the damn whale.

 

[Giannysmag]

What would flood Teyvat was the sea itself, there's no way to really know the power level of the damn whale.

Well the whale is the reason Fontaine is flooding

 

[JirensMom]

What would flood Teyvat was the sea itself, there's no way to really know the power level of the damn whale.

“Actually, never mind that. I believe it expedient to inform you... That the All-Devouring Narwhal used up nearly all its strength fighting you.
Such roiling Hydro energies will prove difficult for the planet's deep seas to digest.”

If my understanding is correct Skirk is saying that the whale using up all its energy caused the sea to rise.

 

[Dog3352]

Well the whale is the reason Fontaine is flooding

The reason the flood would occur would be because the sea could not withstand all the chaos the whale was causing in the primordial sea, and not because of its power.

 

[Dog3352]

“Actually, never mind that. I believe it expedient to inform you... That the All-Devouring Narwhal used up nearly all its strength fighting you.
Such roiling Hydro energies will prove difficult for the planet's deep seas to digest.”

If my understanding is correct Skirk is saying that the whale using up all it energy caused the sea to rise.

Yes, but there are some problems with this, such as the fact that part of the whale's power comes from the Primordial Sea, an example is: "How much power would be needed for the sea to react in such a way?", "What would be the maximum energy capacity that the sea should be able to support?", etc.
There's also the fact that it says about the "deep seas" not being able to digest, so it's not exactly talking about the entire sea not being capable of this, plus it's not possible to know how deep it means, etc.
In my opinion, the flood is a chain reaction, where something on a scale of 4 would cause a catastrophe on a scale of 10, like someone removing something that supports a building and the entire building falling down.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

That's purely game mechanics and Genshin wouldn't even be Tier 6 if that was the case.

"game mechanics"? So can you point out the so called game mechanics you think i am talking about?

 

[GarrixianXD]

"game mechanics"? So can you point out the so called game mechanics you think i am talking about?

Since you worded out like this, I'm confused, but as I said before, the entire verse wouldn't even be at the current tier if your statement "it's not an outlier" was true.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Good argument, in light of the new arguments that have come forth since the inception of this thread I am inclined to agree with the opposition.

 

[GarrixianXD]

with the opposition.

Real funny.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Real funny.

Thanks, that's what people like the most from me.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Since you worded out like this, I'm confused, but as I said before, the entire verse wouldn't even be at the current tier if your statement "it's not an outlier" was true.

Well, thank the wiki for ignoring the lower end/anti feats and only considering the higher end feats. This thing goes for like almost every verse here, so eh.

 

[Mizuki67]

I honestly dont mind for tier 4 traveller tbh but genshin does have some anti feats AFAIK.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Characters like traveller who is comparable to vision wielders have trouble breaking some ordinary ass wooden cages all the time. It's not an outlinear Btw, since this shit happened at least four times and twice in the newest region, aka fontaine aether who should be above his previous selves.

Bro that's game mechanics following this logic, Kratos and GoW wouldn't be Low 1-C due to the game mechanics and PIS, tbh many verses would get a huge downgrade.

 

[Dog3352]

Bro that's game mechanics following this logic, Kratos and GoW wouldn't be Low 1-C due to the game mechanics and PIS, tbh many verses would get a huge downgrade.

City level DBS

 

[Dog3352]

In fact, this CRT is just becoming a bunch of random comments, we already stopped arguing about the CRT on the previous page, when you have time, can someone call some people to take a look at the topic?

 

[Shadowbeast]

I feel that a new thread should have been made addressing the new arguments for Genshin to be 4-C instead of mixing the new arguments in an old thread with old arguments, generating 8 long pages of discussions, it's a bit disorganized. But that's just my opinion, eh.

 

[Dog3352]

I feel that a new thread should have been made addressing the new arguments for Genshin to be 4-C instead of mixing the new arguments in an old thread with old arguments, generating 8 long pages of discussions, it's a bit disorganized. But that's just my opinion, eh.

I agree with you. The biggest problem is that the arguments remain the same, just organized in the OP. But whether this will be accepted just wait.

 

[Shey]

No, is the planet, Fontaine is the continent.

Teyvat is the Continent, Fontaine and the other 6 Nations are Countries within the Continent of Teyvat, there's also a loading screen that says "Continent of Teyvat"

The nations are never referred to as Continents, only Teyvat is called a Continent alongside World

 

[Dog3352]

Teyvat is the Continent, Fontaine and the other 6 Nations are Countries within the Continent of Teyvat, there's also a loading screen that says "Continent of Teyvat"

The nations are never referred to as Continents, only Teyvat is called a Continent alongside World

Teyvat is called both a continent and a world throughout history. There is a loading screen, game notes, character mentions, etc. Who call Teyvat the world.
But it's likely that he calls it World just to say where the game takes place.
But this discussion is useless for anyone's CRT, since Neuvillette says that water was around the planet. Probably sometimes they can talk about Teyvat as a continent and sometimes as a world.

 

[Shey]

Teyvat is called both a continent and a world throughout history. There is a loading screen, game notes, character mentions, etc. Who call Teyvat the world.
But it's likely that he calls it World just to say where the game takes place.
But this discussion is useless for anyone's CRT, since Neuvillette says that water was around the planet. Probably sometimes they can talk about Teyvat as a continent and sometimes as a world.

I am aware it is called world I already said that, Teyvat being called World doesn't disqualify it as a Continent, World and Continent aren't mutually exclusive and both can be true because World does not necessarily mean planet. Especially in Genshin's context where the World of Teyvat is described as a Continent and never Planet

 

[Dog3352]

I am aware it is called world I already said that, Teyvat being called World doesn't disqualify it as a Continent, World and Continent aren't mutually exclusive and both can be true because World does not necessarily mean planet.

But it's likely that he calls it World just to say where the game takes place.

I literally said that.
In addition to the but, the game/lore itself often contextualizes that Teyvat can refer to the planet, such as the descender and the whale (beings coming from other planets) which are declared as beings coming from outside Teyvat. Which is very contradictory, since Teyvat is clearly the continent where the 7 nations are, but several speeches and statements not only call it the world, but also contextualize "Teyvat" as if it were the planet.

Detail: If you review the last few chapters, you will see that the word "Teyvat" is being used a lot to refer to the planet (not just the case of the whale).

 

[Unqver]

I don't understand. If you want to blow, why don't you just blowthis section

 

[Giannysmag]

I don't understand. If you want to blow, why don't you just blowthis section

???

 

[GarrixianXD]

He’s my Chinese friend, sorry, he doesn’t know English very well.

 

[Unqver]

???

I just couldn't find the link to the picture transfer, and the upload failed. Now it has just succeeded. I'm very sorry.

 

[Giannysmag]

I just couldn't find the link to the picture transfer, and the upload failed. Now it has just succeeded. I'm very sorry.

No worries

 

[Unqver]

I don't understand. If you want to blow, why don't you just blowthis section

日月=The sun and the moon.But it is undeniable that I think more plots are needed to prove the gold content of this passage.

 

[GarrixianXD]

@Qawsedf234 It's been clarified here that the sizes of pocket dimensions are set from visualisation.

Setting Standard Sizes for Pocket Dimensions

The purpose of this thread is to create standards for sub-space and pocket reality sizes, as we know they're smaller than a universe but with an unspecified size, but the lack of clarity on its size really brings confusion in certain discussions. My proposal is to set the size of pocket...

vsbattles.com

-_- , that's why I didn't remember this explanation of yours, and only your argument about the Permission Sigils and Qiqi's abilities. Well, let's go.

In Shenhe's lore, despite being a human/mortal, it is stated that she has enormous talent for Adeptus Arts, in addition to being said that she became a master in Adeptus Arts, and she has also created her own Sigil (demonstrating that there are other type of Sigils);
A human managed to learn Adeptus Arts and combine Aseptus Art (Waijing) with his own Art (transcendence) and create another art, once again demonstrating that Adeptus Arts are simply the skills created by Adeptus, and not the manipulation of Adeptus Energy;
Traveler used Adeptus Arts long before he was imbued with Adeptus Energy (Xiao Story Quest);
The game, lore and Xiao several times call the ability Adeptus Arts (Xiao Story Quest), even those that have already been used by humans (making it obvious once again that Adeptus Arts is not related to the manipulation of Adeptus Energy);
The Omni Ubiquity Nets itself is an "evolution" of an Adeptus Art created by a human, in addition to the Omni Ubiquity Nets itself being created by a human;
Omni Ubiquity Nets is an "evolution" of Onmyoudou, and has total connection with Subspace, keeping the essence of animals in Subspace, and taking into account that Omni Ubiquity Nets, which is an evolution of Onmyiudou, has a connection and similarity with Waijing, It's pretty obvious that Waijing (Subspace's creation) was used to create Onmyoudou (created by a human), and then it was "evolved" into Omni Ubiquity Nets (still by a human), which means that a human used Waijing, what else once, it makes it obvious that Adeptus Energy is not needed to use Adeptus Arts (Labyrinth Warriors Event)

There are several other proofs/statements in the lore, but I'm sure this is enough to prove my point (that Adeptus Arts does not use Adeptus Energy, and that Adeptus Art is not Manipulation of Adeptus Energy), mainly due to the amount of evidence /declarations (even Xiao Story Quest has more than one statement), and the fact that I does not use speculation, but rather things mentioned in the story itself.

So my point about Qiqi's abilities stands, and the Permission Sigil is an Adeptus Art because it is an ability created by an Adeptus (Zhongli) and used by them, and not because it is imbued with Adeptus Energy.
If you think that the Permission Sigil is not an Adeptus Arts, it would be even easier for me, since I wouldn't need to prove anything, since the Sigils wouldn't even be Adeptus Arts to begin with, so there would be no need to mention them, already which would just be Talismans imbued with Adeptus Energy.

And the correlation between Adeptus Energy and "Subspace Creation Energy" is completely meaningless, and in addition to not having a single proof of this correlation, there is also the fact that this "Subspace Creation Energy" is only mentioned and used in Subspace , so there is no proof that you could use it for anything else, and the correlation doesn't make sense, in addition to having no proof, they are different energies used for different things, and as if that weren't enough, there is also the fact that Subspace Energy Creation being used to create Subspace is just a theory, as it is said that Subspace is created with the "power of the mind" (imagination), and Tubby says you have to imagine the item to become something (like imagining a chair).

It can also be said that: Subspace Creation Energy = "Power of the mind" (imagination) which is said to be used in the creation of Subspace = Making items form using thought.
Or maybe Subspace Energy Creation is just an energy that exists around items created in Subspace, since that's all it says about that energy, and so that energy wouldn't actually even be used in the creation of Subsoace or its items, but rather just the "power of the mind" (imagination/thought).

And we can see it conjures energy. Shenhe sigils give her cryo powers. Thanks for proving my point. Omni Ubiquity Nets is still an adeptal art because it was based on adeptal arts, and it's fairly obvious subspace creation is adeptal art. A debate like that is pointless and pretty much irrelevant to this CRT.

 

[Dog3352]

And we can see it conjures energy. Shenhe sigils give her cryo powers. Thanks for proving my point. Omni Ubiquity Nets is still an adeptal art because it was based on adeptal arts, and it's fairly obvious subspace creation is adeptal art. A debate like that is pointless and pretty much irrelevant to this CRT.

Which doesn't prove that it's done using Adept Energy, just that they put/focus energy into the Sigil to use the power. Where did you get that from? The cryo powers come from his vision (obviously), Shenhe uses the sigil to store adeptal energy to use along with the Elemental Energy (It is literally said to have adepti energy in the Sigil). I don't know where I'm proving your point when everything is written about how you clearly don't need Adept Energy to use Adeptus Arts (or to make Sigils). That's kind of the point, an Adeptus Arts created/used by a human, in addition to the other evidence I provided of humans using Adeptus Arts (making it clear once again that it does not use Adeptus Energy in the creation/use of Adeptus Arts). I don't know how this is useless for the CRT when all I talk about is the CRT.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Which doesn't prove that it's done using Adept Energy, just that they put/focus energy into the Sigil to use the power. Where did you get that from? The cryo powers come from his vision (obviously), Shenhe uses the sigil to store adeptal energy to use along with the Elemental Energy (It is literally said to have adepti energy in the Sigil). I don't know where I'm proving your point when everything is written about how you clearly don't need Adept Energy to use Adeptus Arts (or to make Sigils). That's kind of the point, an Adeptus Arts created/used by a human, in addition to the other evidence I provided of humans using Adeptus Arts (making it clear once again that it does not use Adeptus Energy in the creation/use of Adeptus Arts). I don't know how this is useless for the CRT when all I talk about is the CRT.

And you're telling me that humans can just create a pocket dimension outta nothing with entirely no source of energy?

 

[Dog3352]

And you're telling me that humans can just create a pocket dimension outta nothing with entirely no source of energy?

I have already demonstrated several proofs that it is not necessary to have Adeptus Energy to use/create Adeptus Arts + humans do not have Adeptus Energy + Humans have created variations/evolutions of Waijing + Several humans have used Adeptus Arts + There is no statement/evidence that it is necessary to have Adeptus Energy to use Adeptus Arts + A human is a master of Adeptus Arts + Xiao himself says that Adeptus Arts are skills and no one has ever said that it has to do with Adeptus Energy Manipulation = I do not think, I'm sure.

Why do you think Rimuru has 2A via Void God Azathoth? Not every pocket dimension is created using energy or AP, most of the time it is just an ability that does not use energy, and Genshin would be just one more example among many.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Shenhe was trained by the adeptus to use their arts and harness their energy, which would be off the grid to prove that adeptal art can be as simple as you interpreted. I proved my points as well, over logic, rather than assumptive regression. However, I don't find your reasoning logical and such.

Mystic Arts in Teyvat

Mystic Arts encompasses various forms of magic, rituals, or otherwise supernatural abilities practiced in the continent of Teyvat. Alchemy is openly practiced in Mondstadt. Because of this, various sub-categories of alchemy exist. Although Liyue's adepti also practice their own form of alchemy...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

I'm sure you can tell it's far more likely to associate it with mystical and elemental power rather than simple arts and stuff.

 

[Dog3352]

Shenhe was trained by the adeptus to use their arts and harness their energy, which would be off the grid to prove that adeptal art can be as simple as you interpreted. I proved my points as well, over logic, rather than assumptive regression. However, I don't find your reasoning logical and such.

Mystic Arts in Teyvat

Mystic Arts encompasses various forms of magic, rituals, or otherwise supernatural abilities practiced in the continent of Teyvat. Alchemy is openly practiced in Mondstadt. Because of this, various sub-categories of alchemy exist. Although Liyue's adepti also practice their own form of alchemy...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

I'm sure you can tell it's far more likely to associate it with mystical and elemental power rather than simple arts and stuff.

First: Shenhe is human, she does not have Adeptus Energy, there is no way for her to harness Adeptus Energy, and nothing is ever said about Shenhe having or Manipulating Adeptus Energy (not without the talisman, which has already been imbued with Adeptus Energy), you are simply inventing things.

Second: It is precisely because you use 90% logic and 10% evidence that I can never agree with your arguments.

Third: Is this link supposed to prove something? It only says what the Adeptus Arts are for, besides the website itself saying that the Adeptus Arts are techniques/skills practiced mainly by adepts (even the website makes it obvious that not only Adeptus can use Adeptus Arts, other races can also, races that obviously don't have Adeptus Energy), it also doesn't say that any Adeptus Arts use Adeptus Energy (the Sigil is only imbued with Energy Adeptus, not created).

Fourth: Not even the website itself says that any type of Energy is used in the creation/use of the Adeptus Arts, so you are just theorizing, and this cannot even be called an argument based on logic, since countless verses have pocket dimensions that are not created using energy or that scale to AP (Rimuru).