Genshin Tier 4 CRT

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

This goes against the lore in every way.
1. Is the very being that was made to take care of the dimension simply lying without reason?
2. Where does it say in the lore that materials are needed to create objects in the dimension?
3. None of this yet proves that this scales to AP, the subspace creations are done with an adeptis ability that Morax made known to the adeptis, but at no point is it said that it is done with anything AP related, and yes, proof is needed that this also counts as AP, as the numerous anrt-feats and lack of feats will complement against this AP.

I have my own question regarding this lol.

The Samsara Incident was orchestrated by Sumeru Academica and the Fatui by the exploitation of the Akasha Terminal. It trapped the entirety of Sumeru under an endless time loop within a pocket hex dimension of subconsciousness and we of dreams. The time loop lasted for entire days and repeated the Sabseruz festival as every incident and everyone's memories all reset after twenty four hours. Reality was clearly manipulated during the story quests covering the samara as it affected both space and time within the particular area and everything around it. Eventually in the end, everything was fluctuating within the hex and created goddamn madness across the entirety of Sumeru thanks to Il Dottore messing with the Akasha Terminal to warp the shit outta entirety of Sumeru and everyone residing there. I don't want to get to anymore spoilers so hopefully my somewhat vague explanation was helpful to prove that the Akasha Terminal was capable of warping reality and every abstract concept (e.g. every person's realm of consciousness) within the hex.

It has been a while since i played sumeru archon quest, but as far as i remember, there was no reality warping/conceptual type 1 shenanigans going on in the cycle of samsara. It was actually a dream caused by the akasha terminal, and their dreams where harvested to power scaramouche while their consciousness where trapped in nilou's dream. When the dream finally ended, traveller woke up and realized he slept for a long ass time. That looks like some sleep manipulation/dream manipulation at best that too only works on people wearing the akasha terminal.
My memories are hazy, but it was complicated as f. I will check the game again and maybe get someone who is knowledgable on genshin to evaluate this.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I have my own question regarding this lol.

The Samsara Incident was orchestrated by Sumeru Academica and the Fatui by the exploitation of the Akasha Terminal. It trapped the entirety of Sumeru under an endless time loop within a pocket hex dimension of subconsciousness and we of dreams. The time loop lasted for entire days and repeated the Sabseruz festival as every incident and everyone's memories all reset after twenty four hours. Reality was clearly manipulated during the story quests covering the samara as it affected both space and time within the particular area and everything around it. Eventually in the end, everything was fluctuating within the hex and created goddamn madness across the entirety of Sumeru thanks to Il Dottore messing with the Akasha Terminal to warp the shit outta entirety of Sumeru and everyone residing there. I don't want to get to anymore spoilers so hopefully my somewhat vague explanation was helpful to prove that the Akasha Terminal was capable of warping reality and every abstract concept (e.g. every person's realm of consciousness) within the hex.

It has been a while since i played sumeru archon quest, but as far as i remember, there was no reality warping/conceptual type 1 shenanigans going on in the cycle of samsara. It was actually a dream caused by the akasha terminal, and their dreams where harvested to power scaramouche while their consciousness where trapped in nilou's dream. When the dream finally ended, traveller woke up and realized he slept for a long ass time. That looks like some sleep manipulation/dream manipulation at best that too only works on people wearing the akasha terminal.
My memories are hazy, but it was complicated as f. I will check the game again and maybe get someone who is knowledgable on genshin to evaluate this.

Dreams were manipulated but so was everyone's environment around them. Time was recurring repetitively until everything succumbed into madness. Dreams and memories are the basis to the realm of consciousness and it's regarded as an abstract space-time. Perhaps it could be type 3 conceptual manipulation...



Here's also a cutscene where everything went into chaos (tho, iirc it's within someone's dream)

 

[Dog3352]

This topic seems to be heading in the right direction. I stand by my last comment.

I disagree with AP.
Disagree with CM type 1.
Neutral in reality warping.
Neutral in CM (either type 2 or 3).

 

[GarrixianXD]

Someone ping a mod

 

[Arkenis]

I think RW makes more sense here.

 

[Naito-desu]

I'm going to be honest, this is too large for me to devote my energy into debunking its individual points but reading this, I feel like this should have gotten prior verification from a consultant. Too many assumptions are made, often apparently deliberately in Genshin's favor. I really do not think this should pass as is as all the material feels inadequately reviewed and simply interpreted too much in Genshin's favor. The sheer volume of work also kind of forces us to pick out many points we can talk ad nauseam.

Again, this should be discussed prior to posting this CRT as changes of this magnitude need a second opinion and thorough review for each significant change and not proposed all at once. I will not say I necessarily oppose these changes but the way they are formatted and presented here makes it far too difficult to make them pass as is. A lot of these need thorough discussion as well as debate on the interpretation due to some of the questionable interpretations I find here.

So I will put forward a disagree until we can sort out the verse thoroughly and not make half-assed blanket changes.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'm going to be honest, this is too large for me to devote my energy into debunking its individual points but reading this, I feel like this should have gotten prior verification from a consultant. Too many assumptions are made, often apparently deliberately in Genshin's favor. I really do not think this should pass as is as all the material feels inadequately reviewed and simply interpreted too much in Genshin's favor. The sheer volume of work also kind of forces us to pick out many points we can talk ad nauseam.

Again, this should be discussed prior to posting this CRT as changes of this magnitude need a second opinion and thorough review for each significant change and not proposed all at once. I will not say I necessarily oppose these changes but the way they are formatted and presented here makes it far too difficult to make them pass as is. A lot of these need thorough discussion as well as debate on the interpretation due to some of the questionable interpretations I find here.

So I will put forward a disagree until we can sort out the verse thoroughly and not make half-assed blanket changes.

I’m sure that’s what every CRT is like, interpreting into the verse’s favor.
A demonstration and few statements would be enough, you also need evidence to contest that it’s an outlier.

I DMed Solacis, maybe he could give some insight and thorough analysis with this thread

 

[Naito-desu]

I’m sure that’s what every CRT is like, interpreting into the verse’s favor.

Every low-quality CRT perhaps, given some people actually voluntarily downgrade their own verses for the sake of accurately portraying it instead of blithely attempting to give it the best abilities possible.

I've been through this song and dance a few times before, and it's just not worth the effort, especially with the volume of proposals involved. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that this is the case, and the only proof I'm seeing is unsubstantiated interpretations on your end.

You haven't even addressed the false equivalence of mythology to deliberately portray Genshin's mythology as stronger as its lore seems, or the deliberate highballing assumptions. So many things that need to be inferred where you take the route that makes Genshin look stronger?

Why is Chinese mythology relevant? If we just used it for everything that was based on it, Dragon Ball would be 1-C or higher. Each game lore should be considered in its own vacuum and not bolstered by any verse outside of it.

Secondly, there are so many logical gaps that require inference that you're deliberately assuming in favor of Genshin rather than what is correct or logical. Again, I'm not going to exhaust myself and waste my energy trying to address all of them but this seriously should not pass.

 

[Arkenis]

I've read through the OP but I never saw where the creation of these realms were supported to be created through the energy system in verse, could I see anything for that? I may have overlooked it completely as well so my mistake if I did.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Every low-quality CRT perhaps, given some people actually voluntarily downgrade their own verses for the sake of accurately portraying it instead of blithely attempting to give it the best abilities possible.

I've been through this song and dance a few times before, and it's just not worth the effort, especially with the volume of proposals involved. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that this is the case, and the only proof I'm seeing is unsubstantiated interpretations on your end.

You haven't even addressed the false equivalence of mythology to deliberately portray Genshin's mythology as stronger as its lore seems, or the deliberate highballing assumptions. So many things that need to be inferred where you take the route that makes Genshin look stronger?

Why is Chinese mythology relevant? If we just used it for everything that was based on it, Dragon Ball would be 1-C or higher. Each game lore should be considered in its own vacuum and not bolstered by any verse outside of it.

Secondly, there are so many logical gaps that require inference that you're deliberately assuming in favor of Genshin rather than what is correct or logical. Again, I'm not going to exhaust myself and waste my energy trying to address all of them but this seriously should not pass.

I only referred to the Chinese mythology as an inference of sub-spaces being separate realms. I never stated it was directly based on Chinese mythology (though, it is for the case of various Xianxia novels and been insinuated in various instances in Genshin as well; I never got into those premises because Genshin isn't like Xianxia at all). I'm not blithely attempting to wank Genshin with all efforts and how are my arguments unsubstantial? I have my counter-arguments and listed all my proofs and presumptions (for every demurs other users asserted), unsure if you're pulling a fallacy here whatsoever. Fictional powerscaling kinda just works that way, especially for a verse like Genshin, it's not meant to be based on realism and logic of the real world. Hell, no even a single fictional verse out there conform to the laws of physics.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I've read through the OP but I never saw where the creation of these realms were supported to be created through the energy system in verse, could I see anything for that? I may have overlooked it completely as well so my mistake if I did.

Does it really require an energy system?

It is created by imagination

 

[Dog3352]

Does it really require an energy system?

Obviously

Elemental energy is what is used as "AP" for genshin characters, you need to have enough elemental energy to destroy a mountain if you want to destroy a mountain (if you don't have the ability to do that physically), which is used to create a realm (imagination + Waijing + material) does not scale to any type of energy system that is AP related in Genshin.
Create a realm using elemental energy (or any AP-related energy) ≠ Create a realm using something that isn't part of the power system

 

[Arkenis]

Does it really require an energy system?

I mean in a way yes. Creation feats are accepted because we can link the feat to their universe's energy system. Other wise this would grant just Space-Time Manipulation, not to mention that this is their greatest feat so far, how do we know we can scale that to regular attacks or even stronger attacks? It just isn't sound for this to be the case, while there are characters who do not show any feat over planet level As mentioned here

This borders on the "at least doubtful", numerous feats and declarations of characters not being capable of continental feats, Ei fighting his robot for (500 years?) hundreds of years using his Musou barely had enough energy to "drying seas" (she spent all these years fighting with Musou, which is her strongest technique, fighting a copy of herself as strong as she is), Azhdaha and Zhonglu fighting with all their power in 1v1 and not having any statement at this leve, etc.
Realms are a tricky thing, in Genshin, because even as it is stated in this CRT, it is not known for sure how they work, there are no declarations that you need to have great power (elemental energy) or anything like that to create them, there is some concrete proof that the creation of pocket realities scale to AP?

A realm of consciousness is a domain built on a person's consciousness which is separate from the world of Teyvat; however, events that occur within a realm of consciousness can affect the outside world. Little is known about how realms of consciousness work, and Yae Miko describes them as "very abstract concept" surrounded by chaos (Credits to Genshin wiki). A realm of consciousness is a realm consisting of a person's consciousness and deemed as an abstract concept of itself; a set of space-time warped by the owner's memories and unable to be accessed by conventional means. Only could be accessed via an entrance which takes on a form of it's owner and the entrant must have some sort of special connection to it's owner (As how Ei was able to preserve and oversee Makoto's realm of consciousness since Makoto trust Ei because they're sisters). Or if the character is powerful enough with some sort of hax, could access it (As Dottore tried to access Nahida's realm of consciousness via the Akasha however failed since she closed off her mind at right timing). Anyways, since the wiki also accepts the Realm of Consciousness as an abstract dimension with it's entirety own concept then no further explanation needed.

This though is pretty cool, this would definitely upgrade the hax for genshin impact

 

[Dog3352]

I mean in a way yes. Creation feats are accepted because we can link the feat to their universe's energy system. Other wise this would grant just Space-Time Manipulation, not to mention that this is their greatest feat so far, how do we know we can scale that to regular attacks or even stronger attacks? It just isn't sound for this to be the case, while there are characters who do not show any feat over planet level As mentioned here


This though is pretty cool, this would definitely upgrade the hax for genshin impact

Perhaps, it is strange as the realm of consciousness apparently exists in a place of Teyvat, and affects that place, but at the same time it is not in that place.
He apparently exists on the same plane as Teyvat, but in another spacetime (Perhaps this is because its existence is abstract?).

 

[Arkenis]

but in another spacetime (Perhaps this is because its existence is abstract?).

That would be nice, it also sounds like type 9 immortality.

 

[Dog3352]

That would be nice, it also sounds like type 9 immortality.

Shogun not have type 9 immortality?
Ei Is capable to restore Shogun even after his destruction even without the necessary materials?

 

[Arkenis]

Shogun not have type 9 immortality?
Ei Is capable to restore Shogun even after his destruction even without the necessary materials?

Yeah forgot about that, but the spacetime also is abstract so you now need ae npi

 

[Arkenis]

Td;lr: Top tier Genshin characters are proven and stated to be capable to manipulating space-time, realities, and abstract concepts such as the minds and consciousness of beings (Characters such as Raiden Shogun and Il Dottore should have Reality Warping and Type 1 or 2 Conceptual Manipulation on their profiles; resistances to Reality Warping and Type 1 or 2 Conceptual Manipulation for Nahida's profile). Guizhong and other Xian (adepti) created realms such as the Realm of the Clouds and Serenitea Pot with it being its own dimension with its own day and night (further proven in-game, as night in the Serenitea Pot could be day in Teyvat). The Serenitea Pot and Realm of Clouds been shown to have their own star system in those images displayed on top of thread.

Yeah I mean the OP pretty much supports it more. So this would make her more op

 

[Dog3352]

Yeah I mean the OP pretty much supports it more. So this would make her more op

We'll have to wait and see if what's in the OP is enough for CM, and if so, that would likely fall under CM type 3.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Dreams were manipulated but so was everyone's environment around them. Time was recurring repetitively until everything succumbed into madness.

Nope. Read the chapter again. Everyone let me give you the full context.

We aren't in a time loop...

Instead, our memories are being erased at the end of each day. Paimon: Ooh! Then the beep we hear every night could just be indicating the deletion of our memories.
Paimon: That's why when we wake up, everyone thinks the Sabzeruz Festival hasn't happened yet. It's already the next day, but everyone still thinks it's the day before.
People in Sumeru think they don't dream, but the truth is, the Akasha steals their dreams without them knowing it. Paimon: And those spaces with no human presence are stolen dreams without their host? That would explain why they sounded so weird when (he/she) was trying to describe them...
Huh, so people in Sumeru do dream after all. In fact, we're all in one big dream together right now! Nahida: Correct answer. Now, how did you conclude that the Akasha is capable of this?

Ooh, okay. Those dream-controlling creatures in the forest also get their power from the Dendro Archon, right? That would explain why the Akasha has the ability to control people's dreams, too. Paimon: But... is stealing everyone's dreams really how the Akasha compiles their wisdom? Isn't there anything more to it than that?
Nahida: Correct. The Akasha is keeping each person's brain in a constant dream state, but also separating their consciousness from their own dream. Nahida: Their disembodied consciousness is placed inside the collective dream of the Sabzeruz Festival along with everyone else's, while their now-vacant dreams are harvested by the Akasha. Nahida: No one is any the wiser as another day passes in the dream, and so begins another samsara cycle... Nahida: People "wake up" to yet another dream about the Sabzeruz Festival, the dreams that belong to them are once again harvested by the Akasha... and so it continues.

About the side effects of a "mass-produced dream"... Paimon: Can humans really keep dreaming forever like this? Will it ever end? And if so, when? Nahida: You might say your mental fatigue has already answered this question. Eventually, there is only so much that people can tolerate.
Although this Sabzeruz Festival dream is under the Akasha's control, only humans can dream. Even the Akasha is unable to create them. Nahida: That means this dream belongs to a host who created it. Paimon: Huh... So how should we find that person? Nahida: Well, if this is someone's dream, then everything here must come from deep within their consciousness ... Nahida: ...Which means, with the power of imagination, they can change anything in this dream. Paimon: Imagination? What do you mean by that? Nahida: Imagination means breaking through what you perceive as normal. Nahida: Like when a server at a tavern brings a plate to you, you'd naturally assume that food is on it. Nahida: However, if you're the dream's host and you become aware that you're dreaming, when you imagine gold and Mora on the plate... Nahida: ...The dream will respond in kind, and the server really will bring you gold and Mora.
Paimon: yawn Good morning, Traveler. Paimon feels like she's been asleep for the longest time...

Good morning, Paimon.

My head hurts. Paimon: ...Paimon's head feels super heavy. Did we oversleep? ...Do you even remember going to sleep last night? Paimon: Paimon thinks it was... after the Sabzeruz Festival... Paimon: gasp The Sabzeruz Festival! Paimon: Have we finally escaped from the Sabzeruz samsara?

I remember now! Paimon: Quick, take off your Akasha Terminal!

At the end of the Dance of Sabzeruz, I think I saw...

Quick, let's go see Dunyarzad!
tl:dr: It is a very good conditional dream manipulation, but that's it basically.

 

[Dog3352]

And just for me that the images do not load?

 

[Second22]

And just for me that the images do not load?

Not just you

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

And just for me that the images do not load?

i am lazy so i just copy pasted the text from wikia lol

 

[GarrixianXD]

i am lazy so i just copy pasted the text from wikia lol

You better replace them now

Nope. Read the chapter again. Everyone let me give you the full context.

We aren't in a time loop...

Instead, our memories are being erased at the end of each day. Paimon: Ooh! Then the beep we hear every night could just be indicating the deletion of our memories.
Paimon: That's why when we wake up, everyone thinks the Sabzeruz Festival hasn't happened yet. It's already the next day, but everyone still thinks it's the day before.
People in Sumeru think they don't dream, but the truth is, the Akasha steals their dreams without them knowing it. Paimon: And those spaces with no human presence are stolen dreams without their host? That would explain why they sounded so weird when (he/she) was trying to describe them...
Huh, so people in Sumeru do dream after all. In fact, we're all in one big dream together right now! Nahida: Correct answer. Now, how did you conclude that the Akasha is capable of this?

Ooh, okay. Those dream-controlling creatures in the forest also get their power from the Dendro Archon, right? That would explain why the Akasha has the ability to control people's dreams, too. Paimon: But... is stealing everyone's dreams really how the Akasha compiles their wisdom? Isn't there anything more to it than that?
Nahida: Correct. The Akasha is keeping each person's brain in a constant dream state, but also separating their consciousness from their own dream. Nahida: Their disembodied consciousness is placed inside the collective dream of the Sabzeruz Festival along with everyone else's, while their now-vacant dreams are harvested by the Akasha. Nahida: No one is any the wiser as another day passes in the dream, and so begins another samsara cycle... Nahida: People "wake up" to yet another dream about the Sabzeruz Festival, the dreams that belong to them are once again harvested by the Akasha... and so it continues.

About the side effects of a "mass-produced dream"... Paimon: Can humans really keep dreaming forever like this? Will it ever end? And if so, when? Nahida: You might say your mental fatigue has already answered this question. Eventually, there is only so much that people can tolerate.
Although this Sabzeruz Festival dream is under the Akasha's control, only humans can dream. Even the Akasha is unable to create them. Nahida: That means this dream belongs to a host who created it. Paimon: Huh... So how should we find that person? Nahida: Well, if this is someone's dream, then everything here must come from deep within their consciousness ... Nahida: ...Which means, with the power of imagination, they can change anything in this dream. Paimon: Imagination? What do you mean by that? Nahida: Imagination means breaking through what you perceive as normal. Nahida: Like when a server at a tavern brings a plate to you, you'd naturally assume that food is on it. Nahida: However, if you're the dream's host and you become aware that you're dreaming, when you imagine gold and Mora on the plate... Nahida: ...The dream will respond in kind, and the server really will bring you gold and Mora.
Paimon: yawn Good morning, Traveler. Paimon feels like she's been asleep for the longest time...

Good morning, Paimon.

My head hurts. Paimon: ...Paimon's head feels super heavy. Did we oversleep? ...Do you even remember going to sleep last night? Paimon: Paimon thinks it was... after the Sabzeruz Festival... Paimon: gasp The Sabzeruz Festival! Paimon: Have we finally escaped from the Sabzeruz samsara?

I remember now! Paimon: Quick, take off your Akasha Terminal!

At the end of the Dance of Sabzeruz, I think I saw...

Quick, let's go see Dunyarzad!
tl:dr: It is a very good conditional dream manipulation, but that's it basically.

If everything you said is true, then I agree

Dreams are insinuated as abstract in Genshin
maybe could be type 3 whatsoever or abstract npi

 

[Dog3352]

You better replace them now

If everything you said is true, then I agree

Dreams are insinuated as abstract in Genshin
maybe could be type 3 whatsoever or abstract npi

I don't think being abstract is enough for any kind of CM

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I don't think being abstract is enough for any kind of CM

There exist abstract existence abilities on wiki tho.

 

[ZENZUYA]

No comment

Waiting for results

 

[GarrixianXD]

Bump

The sub-spaces in Genshin are stated to be created from imagination but was never stated it's completely consisted of imaginary space since it still consists of tangible objects and items from the real world.

Perhaps it could be somewhat Star level? Since it's not entirely on a mental plane of subconsciousness. Also, it wouldn't be the case with the Realm of Euthymia which wasn't really specified how it was created other than it being Ei's plane of mentality.

 

[Dog3352]

Bump

The sub-spaces in Genshin are stated to be created from imagination but was never stated it's completely consisted of imaginary space since it still consists of tangible objects and items from the real world.

The CREATION of a subspace is from Waijing + imagination + material, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that proves that it scales to AP, because it simply does not scale.

 

[GarrixianXD]

The CREATION of a subspace is from Waijing + imagination + material, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that proves that it scales to AP, because it simply does not scale.

The material within the realm is tangible, only the space-time of it is imaginary. As Tubby stated the realm is fake however the tangible substances and material within the realm is real. Hence, the star could be tangible. Why otherwise the Traveler would be asked to accumulate real material from Teyvat?

 

[Dog3352]

The material within the realm is tangible, only the space-time of it is imaginary. As Tubby stated the realm is fake however the tangible substances and material within the realm is real. Hence, the star could be tangible. Why otherwise the Traveler would be asked to accumulate real material from Teyvat?

1. Now, tell me, where the hell did the character get the material to make a star?
2. A subspace is already created with these things of night, day, sun, etc. The moon and the sun are not created in the same way as chairs or anything like that, they are created along with the kingdom, like the Traveler himself for example.
3. You would still have to prove the use of AP, even if the traveler or someone in some miraculous way had the ability to gather materials to create a star, they are still created from imagination, with the material being the tangible/real thing , but the creation of the object being from the imagination.
4. To my recollection, we have no information on what the Traveler (or any other character with a realm created by adeptis art) has created using real-world materials, other than apparently having a limit to what can be created with material (since Tubby himself mentions that it is not possible to create an entire city within the realm).

 

[GarrixianXD]

1. Now, tell me, where the hell did the character get the material to make a star?
2. A subspace is already created with these things of night, day, sun, etc. The moon and the sun are not created in the same way as chairs or anything like that, they are created along with the kingdom, like the Traveler himself for example.
3. You would still have to prove the use of AP, even if the traveler or someone in some miraculous way had the ability to gather materials to create a star, they are still created from imagination, with the material being the tangible/real thing , but the creation of the object being from the imagination.
4. To my recollection, we have no information on what the Traveler (or any other character with a realm created by adeptis art) has created using real-world materials, other than apparently having a limit to what can be created with material (since Tubby himself mentions that it is not possible to create an entire city within the realm).

Mind showing the scan the atmosphere, stars, sky also comes with the realm? Everything inside the realm is tangible other than space-time itself; you do know that moons and stars are formed by rocks, gas, and energy just like matter and plasma.


As stated before, that statement is contradictory. We can literally craft anything in the teapot by chopping trees in Teyvat. We could fin almost everything in-game if it weren’t for world boundaries restrict by game mechanics.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Bump

 

[Dog3352]

Mind showing the scan the atmosphere, stars, sky also comes with the realm? Everything inside the realm is tangible other than space-time itself; you do know that moons and stars are formed by rocks, gas, and energy just like matter and plasma.


As stated before, that statement is contradictory. We can literally craft anything in the teapot by chopping trees in Teyvat. We could fin almost everything in-game if it weren’t for world boundaries restrict by game mechanics.

1. Have you ever played Genshin? The Traveler's realm has a sun.
2. And proof that anything like this scales to AP? Nothing created in the teapot or even the teapot itself does not use anything that scales to AP in Genshin, the only energy that scales to AP in general is elemental energy (there are also some that are abilities, ley lines, etc).
3. The same adepts who create realms are the same ones who are impressed with the fact that Morax moves mountains, the same ones who create stars are impressed with someone who moves mountains, this is totally contradictory.
4. What contradicts the "can't create a city" thing? It is never said in the game's lore that this is unlimited or that there are no limits to what can be created.

Madam Ping made a realm containing a sun for the Traveler, and that same adept is impressed that Morax has moved mountains, and it's pretty obvious that the creation of realms or realm items don't scale to AP.

 

[GarrixianXD]

1. Have you ever played Genshin? The Traveler's realm has a sun.
2. And proof that anything like this scales to AP? Nothing created in the teapot or even the teapot itself does not use anything that scales to AP in Genshin, the only energy that scales to AP in general is elemental energy (there are also some that are abilities, ley lines, etc).
3. The same adepts who create realms are the same ones who are impressed with the fact that Morax moves mountains, the same ones who create stars are impressed with someone who moves mountains, this is totally contradictory.
4. What contradicts the "can't create a city" thing? It is never said in the game's lore that this is unlimited or that there are no limits to what can be created.

Madam Ping made a realm containing a sun for the Traveler, and that same adept is impressed that Morax has moved mountains, and it's pretty obvious that the creation of realms or realm items don't scale to AP.

Yes, but my question is that how is the star also a part of the imaginary space-time? Stars are also made of matter, simply because there’s a star in the atmosphere means it’s also embedded into space and time. The realm does have its limits, that’s for sure however we can’t determine that since we’re not sure of the actual extent itself. Simply being impressed of another person’s feat doesn’t mean you’re weak.

 

[Dog3352]

Yes, but my question is that how is the star also a part of the imaginary space-time? Stars are also made of matter, simply because there’s a star in the atmosphere means it’s also embedded into space and time. The realm does have its limits, that’s for sure however we can’t determine that since we’re not sure of the actual extent itself. Simply being impressed of another person’s feat doesn’t mean you’re weak.

Again

1. There is absolutely NOTHING to prove that anything created in the realm (created alongside the realm, or even after the realm was created, or even the realm was created) scales to AP.
2. Regardless of whether the star was created with the realm, there is absolutely nothing to show that this scales to AP, besides the star probably not even being made of matter (either the matter the star has or even matter) or something like that. like, where would Madam Ping get material to make a star, a sea, etc?
3. That her being impressed with a mountain-level feat while apparently being able to "create stars" isn't that strange in the least, isn't it? Why would a minimally star level character be impressed with a mountain level feat? It makes no sense.
4. Countless anti-feats and statements go against this scale, just the fact that Shogun and IS have fought for 500 years and only expended enough energy to dry up the seas and one of the countless anti-feats and statements.
5. Why are you calling the realm spacetime when in the game it is a subspace?

 

[Arkenis]

Ya should get some knowledgeable mods to check this over. So far most of the evidence provided doesn't support tier 4 and a lot of the feats in lore seem to be the limit for the god tiers.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Again

1. There is absolutely NOTHING to prove that anything created in the realm (created alongside the realm, or even after the realm was created, or even the realm was created) scales to AP.
2. Regardless of whether the star was created with the realm, there is absolutely nothing to show that this scales to AP, besides the star probably not even being made of matter (either the matter the star has or even matter) or something like that. like, where would Madam Ping get material to make a star, a sea, etc?
3. That her being impressed with a mountain-level feat while apparently being able to "create stars" isn't that strange in the least, isn't it? Why would a minimally star level character be impressed with a mountain level feat? It makes no sense.
4. Countless anti-feats and statements go against this scale, just the fact that Shogun and IS have fought for 500 years and only expended enough energy to dry up the seas and one of the countless anti-feats and statements.

As again, the statement "drying the seas" is a metaphor/analogy and poetic figure of speech. The star isn't imaginary and never been stated the stars within the realm are also embedded within the imaginary space-time. Since the environment in the realm such as land, ocean, etc. are tangible it's creation should scale to AP. Not to mention there's also a statement those realms can also be destroyed by the adepti's free will.

Ya should get some knowledgeable mods to check this over. So far most of the evidence provided doesn't support tier 4 and a lot of the feats in lore seem to be the limit for the god tiers.

So you're insinuating it's an outlier?

 

[Dog3352]

As again, the statement "drying the seas" is a metaphor/analogy and poetic figure of speech. The star isn't imaginary and never been stated the stars within the realm are also embedded within the imaginary space-time. Since the environment in the realm such as land, ocean, etc. are tangible it's creation should scale to AP. Not to mention there's also a statement those realms can also be destroyed by the adepti's free will.

1. Any evidence of metaphor/analogy use? I think everyone here knows very well that Raiden has the knowledge about the sea that is presented to us in Honkai, is there any proof that this is a metaphor?
2. The realm is made of the thoughts, items and art of the adepts, they totally own the place, they created it, why wouldn't they be able to destroy it if they wanted to?
3. Do you have any proof that they are capable of destroying the realm with AP (elemental energy or something that actually scales to AP)?
4. Obviously it is an outlier, characters stronger than adepts not even having continental level feats, adeptis being surprised with mountain level feats, battles between beings much more powerful than adeptis not having done level above island+, declarations of feats far below star level, etc.
5. I'm pretty sure a lot of characters have a tangible pocket reality (regardless of size) and don't scale to it, why do you think Rimuru has a 2A skill and scales to 2B? That's not how scaling works on this wiki.

 

[Arkenis]

So you're insinuating it's an outlier?

Nah. I think reality warping can be fine. Or space-time manip but it applying to Ap is not how the verse represented the characters at all.