Genshin Tier 4 CRT

[Dog3352]

Anyway, I hope this is my last comment before the members come check it out.

1. I disagree with Tier 4 for the reasons I gave above.
2. Neutral in reality distortion, having little knowledge about hax.
3. Neutral in CM, the fact that the realm of consciousness is described as a "very abstract concept" only seen from the outside and never again mentioned in this way makes me skeptical, I'd rather the team see if this can be applied.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The star isn't imaginary and never been stated the stars within the realm are also embedded within the imaginary space-time.

It should be noted that even if it was a completely straightforward creation feat, you would need to provide evidence that the creation feat would scale to their physical power output, which hasn't been done.

For the thread I with Dog here, this seems like a Dream Manipulation thing that really doesn't scale to AP. For Concept Manipulation it would be Type 3 "Can Manipulate the concept of X's dreams", rather than Type 2 "Can Manipulate the concept of all/any Dream and change their nature".

 

[Dog3352]

For the thread I with Dog here, this seems like a Dream Manipulation thing that really doesn't scale to AP. For Concept Manipulation it would be Type 3 "Can Manipulate the concept of X's dreams", rather than Type 2 "Can Manipulate the concept of all/any Dream and change their nature".

Neutral in CM, the fact that the realm of consciousness is described as a "very abstract concept" only seen from the outside and never again mentioned in this way makes me skeptical, I'd rather the team see if this can be applied.

Do you agree with CM type 3 regardless this?

In resume: Yae Miko says that the realm of consciousness is a very abstract concept for those outside the realm of consciousness, in every other mention of the realm of consciousness (not to mention a specific point of view) she does not mentions more as a "concept", only as an abstract, and other "names".

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do you agree with CM type 3 regardless this?

In resume: Yae Miko says that the realm of consciousness is a very abstract concept for those outside the realm of consciousness, in every other mention of the realm of consciousness (not to mention a specific point of view) she does not mentions more as a "concept", only as an abstract, and other "names".

It would just be a very useless type of CM 3, but still CM 3

 

[GarrixianXD]

1. Any evidence of metaphor/analogy use? I think everyone here knows very well that Raiden has the knowledge about the sea that is presented to us in Honkai, is there any proof that this is a metaphor?
2. The realm is made of the thoughts, items and art of the adepts, they totally own the place, they created it, why wouldn't they be able to destroy it if they wanted to?
3. Do you have any proof that they are capable of destroying the realm with AP (elemental energy or something that actually scales to AP)?
4. Obviously it is an outlier, characters stronger than adepts not even having continental level feats, adeptis being surprised with mountain level feats, battles between beings much more powerful than adeptis not having done level above island+, declarations of feats far below star level, etc.
5. I'm pretty sure a lot of characters have a tangible pocket reality (regardless of size) and don't scale to it, why do you think Rimuru has a 2A skill and scales to 2B? That's not how scaling works on this wiki.

Hoyoverse uses those terms as analogy not only once, especially with Genshin with terms “stars” and “visions”.

As long as there’s items such as stars in the realm, and they could destroy it under their will then it pretty much says enough about their AP.

Well, I’m sure Goku was also scratched by a bullet and no one considered that a weakness

I guess that skill could be 4-C nonetheless

It should be noted that even if it was a completely straightforward creation feat, you would need to provide evidence that the creation feat would scale to their physical power output, which hasn't been done.

For the thread I with Dog here, this seems like a Dream Manipulation thing that really doesn't scale to AP. For Concept Manipulation it would be Type 3 "Can Manipulate the concept of X's dreams", rather than Type 2 "Can Manipulate the concept of all/any Dream and change their nature".

if they could destroy everything in the realm witj the star being tangible then shouldn’t it put their potency at star level?

 

[GarrixianXD]

Nah. I think reality warping can be fine. Or space-time manip but it applying to Ap is not how the verse represented the characters at all.

Eh, relatable. So pretty much hax on that level

 

[Dog3352]

Hoyoverse uses those terms as analogy not only once, especially with Genshin with terms “stars” and “visions”.

As long as there’s items such as stars in the realm, and they could destroy it under their will then it pretty much says enough about their AP.

Well, I’m sure Goku was also scratched by a bullet and no one considered that a weakness

I guess that skill could be 4-C nonetheless

1. Raiden itself clearly states "seas", mentioning the seas of Teyvat, this would be an analogy to what? Raiden is not even aware of the Honkai Sea, other than clearly stating "the energy we used was enough to dry up the seas", this statement is very direct, there is no use of analogy here.
2. You would have to prove that they use AP to destroy the realm, creating a realm does not use AP (there is no proof that it does), so you would have to prove that they destroy using AP.
3. The case of Goku, Goku has feats (almost destroying the universe while fighting Beerus. Fighting Jiren, who is apparently as strong as a God of destruction. shaking the void, etc.), and statements that place him on a universal+ level , in addition to the DBS narrative following this scale. In Genshin we have numerous anti-feats and statements that go against the scale (4C), plus Genshin's narrative obviously follows a specific scale (maximum island+ level for now), with the feats being things like: "raise mountains", "kill gods capable of destroying mountains or islands with all their power", "cutting an island and killing a God", "uprooting mountains and creating a huge bird", etc (feats that apparently 4C characters cannot do, and even impress with these feats).
4. Realms can probably be 4C, but without proof, AP is definitely not going to be 4C.

 

[Qawsedf234]

if they could destroy everything in the realm witj the star being tangible then shouldn’t it put their potency at star level?

How do they destroy the realms?

 

[Apprentice_Mage]

How do they destroy the realms?

They don't. We have not seen any ingame scenes of any one destroying a Realm(to my knowledge).

The only thing in Genshin that could be scaled to Star Level currently would be the production of Mora since Albedo does say that a star nearly 8 times the size of Teyvat's Sun is required to produce Gold.

 

[Dog3352]

They don't. We have not seen any ingame scenes of any one destroying a Realm(to my knowledge).

The only thing in Genshin that could be scaled to Star Level currently would be the production of Mora since Albedo does say that a star nearly 8 times the size of Teyvat's Sun is required to produce Gold.

Why would it take a star 8 times the size of Teyvat's sun to produce gold? Morax does not produce mora? Can you tell me where Albedo mentions this?

 

[Apprentice_Mage]

Why would it take a star 8 times the size of Teyvat's sun to produce gold? Morax does not produce mora? Can you tell me where Albedo mentions this?

Is it ok if I just pin the dialogue? I am pretty sure Albedo says this in the quest where he test the traveller for their powers in a limited time event. I do not remember the event name.

"Oh, by the way. Did you know that without human manipulation, you would need to harness the power of a sun eight times the size of our own in order to naturally create gold?"
(Albedo)

Also, according to Paimon Mora is minted from Zhongli's Golden Form.

Paimon: It was because the first Mora was Minted from his(Morax) Golden Form and was given to human in trust.

Another one is from Prithiva Topaz Ascension Gems description:

" The currencies that flow through this land are my flesh and blood.

For thus did I become the guarantor of the people's hard work, wisdom, and future.

This is the trust I have placed in them. Betray it, and you taint my blood."

Do note that they highest amount Geo Zhongli has manupilated/created is only 629 cubic kilometers on the lower-end or 1258 cubic kilometers on the higher-end(Raising of Mount Tianheng).

So, I am not sure how Mora Production could be translated to AP or Durability.

Edit: Nevermind the production of Mora is not a natural process. While not man-made, it still has the hand of a God involved so I am not sure it would reach 4C levels of energy consumption.

 

[Dog3352]

Is it ok if I just pin the dialogue? I am pretty sure Albedo says this in the quest where he test the traveller for their powers in a limited time event. I do not remember the event name.

"Oh, by the way. Did you know that without human manipulation, you would need to harness the power of a sun eight times the size of our own in order to naturally create gold?"
(Albedo)

Also, according to Paimon Mora is minted from Zhongli's Golden Form.

Paimon: It was because the first Mora was Minted from his(Morax) Golden Form and was given to human in trust.

Another one is from Prithiva Topaz Ascension Gems description:

" The currencies that flow through this land are my flesh and blood.

For thus did I become the guarantor of the people's hard work, wisdom, and future.

This is the trust I have placed in them. Betray it, and you taint my blood."

Do note that they highest amount Geo Zhongli has manupilated/created is only 629 cubic kilometers on the lower-end or 1258 cubic kilometers on the higher-end(Raising of Mount Tianheng).

So, I am not sure how Mora Production could be translated to AP or Durability.

Edit: Nevermind the production of Mora is not a natural process. While not man-made, it still has the hand of a God involved so I am not sure it would reach 4C levels of energy consumption.

It has some problems with that.
1. As far as we know, mora is made of Morax's gnosis, it is not possible to know if the way Morax used it was that way that "needed a sun 8 times bigger than Teyvat's", and with "human manipulation" isn't he talking about gnosis? The mora of the bank is made by the gnosis.
2. Made. Even if Morax's Gnosis actually used this method to create mora, he hasn't demonstrated any feats at this level other than creating mora, so it probably wouldn't scale to anything (AP, durability) other than creating mora.
3. Even if by "human manipulation" Albedo wasn't talking about gnosis, Albedo probably isn't taking gnosis into account, because he's talking about "creating gold naturally", and I don't think gnosis is exactly a natural way to create gold.

Albedo is probably talking about gnosis when he talks about "no human manipulation", as it is mentioned in the quest "a fond farewell" (or something like that) that only Morax can do mora.

 

[Apprentice_Mage]

It has some problems with that.
1. As far as we know, mora is made of Morax's gnosis, it is not possible to know if the way Morax used it was that way that "needed a sun 8 times bigger than Teyvat's", and with "human manipulation" isn't he talking about gnosis? The mora of the bank is made by the gnosis.
2. Made. Even if Morax's Gnosis actually used this method to create mora, he hasn't demonstrated any feats at this level other than creating mora, so it probably wouldn't scale to anything (AP, durability) other than creating mora.
3. Even if by "human manipulation" Albedo wasn't talking about gnosis, Albedo probably isn't taking gnosis into account, because he's talking about "creating gold naturally", and I don't think gnosis is exactly a natural way to create gold.

Albedo is probably talking about gnosis when he talks about "no human manipulation", as it is mentioned in the quest "a fond farewell" (or something like that) that only Morax can do mora.

I realized that after typing out my comment. It is just vague and also there is no feat of being anywhere close to that level.

 

[Arkenis]

why is venti and zhongli 4-C and 2-A

 

[GarrixianXD]

1. Raiden itself clearly states "seas", mentioning the seas of Teyvat, this would be an analogy to what? Raiden is not even aware of the Honkai Sea, other than clearly stating "the energy we used was enough to dry up the seas", this statement is very direct, there is no use of analogy here.
2. You would have to prove that they use AP to destroy the realm, creating a realm does not use AP (there is no proof that it does), so you would have to prove that they destroy using AP.
3. The case of Goku, Goku has feats (almost destroying the universe while fighting Beerus. Fighting Jiren, who is apparently as strong as a God of destruction. shaking the void, etc.), and statements that place him on a universal+ level , in addition to the DBS narrative following this scale. In Genshin we have numerous anti-feats and statements that go against the scale (4C), plus Genshin's narrative obviously follows a specific scale (maximum island+ level for now), with the feats being things like: "raise mountains", "kill gods capable of destroying mountains or islands with all their power", "cutting an island and killing a God", "uprooting mountains and creating a huge bird", etc (feats that apparently 4C characters cannot do, and even impress with these feats).
4. Realms can probably be 4C, but without proof, AP is definitely not going to be 4C.

Genshin's narrative also included the terms "abyss" and "transcendence" also makes usage of poetic figuration of speech. I only took Dragon Ball as an example though I'm sure there are plenty other verses (possibly outdated) out there that got a possible tiering system from a vague creation feat. It could be an analogy that Raiden was weakened and wasn't strong enough to fight other opponents, especially Inazuma is based on the sea, the analog "dry up the seas" could be implemented.

They don't. We have not seen any ingame scenes of any one destroying a Realm(to my knowledge).

The only thing in Genshin that could be scaled to Star Level currently would be the production of Mora since Albedo does say that a star nearly 8 times the size of Teyvat's Sun is required to produce Gold.

The realms are created by pure adeptal power and if one could create a realm then one could also warp it through their own will (hence, could also destroy it). I've seen statements of it in-game however I tried to find it and no luck. Hoping someone could display a scan, I remember Cloud Retainer or Moon Carver stated something about adeptal realm destruction in-game, however I might have bad memory.

 

[Apprentice_Mage]

why is venti and zhongli 4-C and 2-A

Wait, what?

 

[Arkenis]

Wait, what?

its fixed now, but someone made Venti and Zhongli 4-C and 2-A lmao.

 

[GarrixianXD]

its fixed now, but someone made Venti and Zhongli 4-C and 2-A lmao.

They got banned for vandalism I suppose?

 

[Dog3352]

Genshin's narrative also included the terms "abyss" and "transcendence" also makes usage of poetic figuration of speech. I only took Dragon Ball as an example though I'm sure there are plenty other verses (possibly outdated) out there that got a possible tiering system from a vague creation feat. It could be an analogy that Raiden was weakened and wasn't strong enough to fight other opponents, especially Inazuma is based on the sea, the analog "dry up the seas" could be implemented.

The realms are created by pure adeptal power and if one could create a realm then one could also warp it through their own will (hence, could also destroy it). I've seen statements of it in-game however I tried to find it and no luck. Hoping someone could display a scan, I remember Cloud Retainer or Moon Carver stated something about adeptal realm destruction in-game, however I might have bad memory.

1. Abyss is a place where we face enemies, nothing much, words like "transcendence", "omnipotence", "omniscience", among other lines like that are used metaphorically, a lot of that in Inazuma including.
2. If a verse has a scale of this level without proof, and as you said, it might be outdated or maybe a dead verse, that doesn't mean that every verse scales without concrete proof.
3. That makes 0 sense, Raiden says that the elemental energy used by both of us 500 years of fighting was enough to dry up the seas, this definitely has nothing to do with her weakened, don't force a metaphor/analogy where there's nothing to do with it. prove that it exists.
4. Again: There is no evidence that the crafting feat scales to AP.
5. You need the statement, and preferably also say where the statement came from, as there are verses that without context can easily escalate to levels they shouldn't.

And about Madam Ping, I don't know if you know, but she is not only surprised with feats of mountain level, but basically mentions the feat as being superior to the creation of a subspace, and Madam Ping compares both feats, and puts the feat of moving mountains above the feat of creating a realm.

Madame Ping: Indeed, the teapot is nothing to boast of. One such as myself must depart from this realm to create a world of one's own. Rex Lapis, on the other hand, moved mountains and seas... That is what one might call an exercise of true power.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Genshin's narrative also included the terms "abyss" and "transcendence" also makes usage of poetic figuration of speech. I only took Dragon Ball as an example though I'm sure there are plenty other verses (possibly outdated) out there that got a possible tiering system from a vague creation feat

The core issue with that comparison is that Dragon Ball has a specific universal energy system of more ki = more strong. If someone can create a star with ki then they can also punch or shoot with that same force due to that system. You would need to prove Genshin has the same system for that to work.

 

[Apprentice_Mage]

Genshin's narrative also included the terms "abyss" and "transcendence" also makes usage of poetic figuration of speech. I only took Dragon Ball as an example though I'm sure there are plenty other verses (possibly outdated) out there that got a possible tiering system from a vague creation feat. It could be an analogy that Raiden was weakened and wasn't strong enough to fight other opponents, especially Inazuma is based on the sea, the analog "dry up the seas" could be implemented.

The realms are created by pure adeptal power and if one could create a realm then one could also warp it through their own will (hence, could also destroy it). I've seen statements of it in-game however I tried to find it and no luck. Hoping someone could display a scan, I remember Cloud Retainer or Moon Carver stated something about adeptal realm destruction in-game, however I might have bad memory.

However, the issue I think is the fact that how this converts into AP. As, others have already said we have no other feats to prove that they at 4C.

It is to be noted that Madme Ping considers Zhongli's ability to move the Mountains and Seas as a true exercise of power compared to the creation of a Sub-Space.

"Rex lapis on the other hand would move mountains and seas that is what one would call a true exercise of power"
-----‐----

While yes, it is possible and more than likely Genshin's top tiers (Celestia, The Dragon Sovereigns(Nibuleng, Apep, Azadaha(He is literally called The Earth Dragon)), The Second Throne of The Heavens, Archons) would be higher than what we rate them currently, all we have is vague statements and assumptions that we can't find concrete evidence to prove it true or even false.

Stuff like Dainsleif saying that the curse of Gods affect a higher layer of reality, an artifact from the teapot implies that there are beings that are not bound by time.

 

[GarrixianXD]

The core issue with that comparison is that Dragon Ball has a specific universal energy system of more ki = more strong. If someone can create a star with ki then they can also punch or shoot with that same force due to that system. You would need to prove Genshin has the same system for that to work.

Adeptal energy? It's been used in-battle before and could be harnessed for destruction (the Guizhong ballista being a prime example)


Start from 4:01

1:32

Unsure if it's geo elemental energy or adeptal energy since there wasn't a specific lore about the crossbows. However, I could presume it's adeptal energy since we never seen actual weapons itself being infused with elemental energy without an allogene wielding it.

1. Abyss is a place where we face enemies, nothing much, words like "transcendence", "omnipotence", "omniscience", among other lines like that are used metaphorically, a lot of that in Inazuma including.
2. If a verse has a scale of this level without proof, and as you said, it might be outdated or maybe a dead verse, that doesn't mean that every verse scales without concrete proof.
3. That makes 0 sense, Raiden says that the elemental energy used by both of us 500 years of fighting was enough to dry up the seas, this definitely has nothing to do with her weakened, don't force a metaphor/analogy where there's nothing to do with it. prove that it exists.
4. Again: There is no evidence that the crafting feat scales to AP.
5. You need the statement, and preferably also say where the statement came from, as there are verses that without context can easily escalate to levels they shouldn't.

And about Madam Ping, I don't know if you know, but she is not only surprised with feats of mountain level, but basically mentions the feat as being superior to the creation of a subspace, and Madam Ping compares both feats, and puts the feat of moving mountains above the feat of creating a realm.

The abyss is a separate dimension from Teyvat.

The crafted materials created by the Traveler could be destroyed and deleted from the destruction system of the inventory. The items crafted by the Traveler is created by Adeptal Energy.

Serenitea Pot

The Serenitea Pot or Realm Within (colloquially also known as Teapot, Housing, Homeland, or Player Housing) is a system in Genshin Impact that allows the player to create their own home. Players interact with the system using a gadget of the same name. Players can request to visit their friend's...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

There's been countless analogies implemented in Genshin Impact, hence why would that statement with Raiden be an exception? I referred to Honkai from my previous comments as a inference, though same logic applies (both are Hoyoverse games anyways). Raiden could manipulate the seas by creating a storm around the entirety of Inazuma not to mention drying seas itself is already an island level feat, therefore why would that statement be validated if Raiden is already deemed as large island level on this wiki?

Mind showing the scan when Madam Ping stated that mountain level feats are superior than pocket-space time creation?

 

[GarrixianXD]

However, the issue I think is the fact that how this converts into AP. As, others have already said we have no other feats to prove that they at 4C.

It is to be noted that Madme Ping considers Zhongli's ability to move the Mountains and Seas as a true exercise of power compared to the creation of a Sub-Space.

"Rex lapis on the other hand would move mountains and seas that is what one would call a true exercise of power"

While yes, it is possible and more than likely Genshin's top tiers (Celestia, The Dragon Sovereigns, The Second Throne of The Heavens, Archons) would be higher than what we rate them currently, all we have is vague statements and assumptions that we can't find concrete evidence to prove it true or even false.

honestly, Genshin is pretty outdated in general with many characters lacking a profile

I already discussed on my previous comment. It's adeptal energy being the source of both creation and destruction.

 

[Dog3352]

Adeptal energy? It's been used in-battle before and could be harnessed for destruction (the Guizhong ballista being a prime example)

Unsure if it's geo elemental energy or adeptal energy since there wasn't a specific lore about the crossbows. However, I could presume it's adeptal energy since we never seen actual weapons itself being infused with elemental energy without an allogene wielding it.

Despite the fact that there is no proof that subspace creation scales to AP, other than but, we still have many other things needed, like Waijing/"mind power", in addition to some specific items.

The abyss is a separate dimension from Teyvat.

I know that, I don't want to elaborate because it's a pointless subject.

The crafted materials created by the Traveler could be destroyed and deleted from the destruction system of the inventory. The items crafted by the Traveler is created by Adeptal Energy.

Most of that is game mechanics, this "adept energy" is just a game system that increases according to the amount of items you put in the game, this serves to earn more coins and increase the limit of coins, it's not like it's power or something type. According to Tubby's explanation, item creation uses subspace creation, as the person uses imagination/mind for the item to take the shape we want, and this still wouldn't scale to AP, as the Traveler only uses subspace creation to that the item takes shape, and does not create the item or the materials of item.

There's been countless analogies implemented in Genshin Impact, hence why would that statement with Raiden be an exception? I referred to Honkai from my previous comments as a inference, though same logic applies (both are Hoyoverse games anyways). Raiden could manipulate the seas by creating a storm around the entirety of Inazuma not to mention drying seas itself is already an island level feat, therefore why would that statement be validated if Raiden is already deemed as large island level on this wiki?

The quote is clear and direct, "we use enough energy to dry up the seas", there is no analogy here, there is no other "sea" to use as an analogy, because something so direct and obvious would be an analogy to something, that and just pushing it too hard, Genshin uses analogies and metaphors, but that's obviously not a metaphor, you're just pushing it for the scale to happen, and are you sure a character with AP island is capable of drying up the sea of an entire planet with an atack?

Mind showing the scan when Madam Ping stated that mountain level feats are superior than pocket-space time creation?

It's in the commentary, Madame Ping mentions the feat while explaining realm creation, and in one comment, she puts Morax's feats (mountain) above realm creation.

 

[Dog3352]

About Subspaces Creation: Subspaces are created from an adept skill (Waijing), specific items, mind power.

Post-creation: Realms are created with their own "sun", sky, sea, etc (probably depending on what the realm looks like).

About: Subspaces are not true worlds, and have their limitations:

Paimon: Wow, is that all it takes? Then... we could build a whole city inside, couldn't we!
Tubby: Hmm... I doubt it. A golden-eyed adeptus explained this to me at some point in the past.
Tubby: He said that even though Sub-Space Creation is a product of adeptal power, even that has its limits.
Tubby: This world is not a true one, after all. It provides merely a moment of brief respite from the mortal realm, not a means of escaping it entirely.

Taking into account the realms that we see in the game, they all look different, which means that the person chooses the appearance of the kingdom at the time of creation (probably using the power of the mind).

This is due to the fact that Madame Ping is not seen with materials that would be needed to create the items she already has in the realm's po-creation, such as a sun, sea, earth, house, etc. In addition to Madam Ping asking for items that we have not seen in the realm, and would have nothing to do with it.

Madame Ping: Well... For starters, I require some Shimmersoil from the banks of Dihua Marsh. Back in the day, it could only be found where the Glaze Lilies thrived most profusely.

Which means that it's quite obvious that creating a subspace is different from creating the items inside, as you have to "prepare the materials" (have them) to create the items using the power of your mind, being materials they use to create the same object normally (such as wood to create a chair), different from subspace creation.


Not only does subspace creation not use materials like item creation (like taking water from an ocean to create an ocean in the realm), it also uses adept abilities (Waijing) and mind power, as far as I've seen none of that seems to escalate to AP.


And about the creation of items, in addition to not having anything to indicate that Traveler has created something like a city or something (taking into account the limit mentioned by Tubby, and nothing in the lore mentions this), there is still the fact that who has no reason to escalate to AP, Traveler just needs to get the materials, the creation of the item comes from the imagination/mind.

 

[Vietthai96]

There is a reason i stop scaling Mihoyo games bruhh

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

There is a reason i stop scaling Mihoyo games bruhh

This made the Nasuverse scaling better (yes i know there is a the tier 1 debate ongoing but i feel MHY scaling is way clusterf**k)

 

[Ringki_64]

can someone explain what changes there will be if this thread is accepted ?
it will be helpful

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

can someone explain what changes there will be if this thread is accepted ?
it will be helpful

Eh, i feel the the current concensus for the thread has lead to a massive rejection but sure, if this get accepted the verse will bumped around tier 4
But as i said, acceptance is not possible now, only reality warping and CM (unless i missing some of the other haxes) will be added and even it's still fishy for now

 

[Ringki_64]

Eh, i feel the the current concensus for the thread has lead to a massive rejection but sure, if this get accepted the verse will bumped around tier 4
But as i said, acceptance is not possible now, only reality warping and CM (unless i missing some of the other haxes) will be added and even it's still fishy for now

ic thanks

i would agree tho

 

[Planck69]

I've read the OP and skimmed most of the thread so I probably missed some things. Anyway, reality warping and Type 3 conceptual manipulation seem fine at a glance but I may change my mind on that.

Scaling everyone to 4-C is pretty iffy on that feat alone. Setting aside the lack of a universal energy system, even series with such things need to prove consistency for a direct tier. Seeing as there doesn't seem to be enough proof of the former from what I can gather, I'll disagree for now.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I've read the OP and skimmed most of the thread so I probably missed some things. Anyway, reality warping and Type 3 conceptual manipulation seem fine at a glance but I may change my mind on that.

Scaling everyone to 4-C is pretty iffy on that feat alone. Setting aside the lack of a universal energy system, even series with such things need to prove consistency for a direct tier. Seeing as there doesn't seem to be enough proof of the former from what I can gather, I'll disagree for now.

The OP stated about the adeptal energy which has been countered by dog3352, you can take the glance of it (unless you are already readed it then nvm lel)

 

[Planck69]

The OP stated about the adeptal energy which has been countered by dog3352, you can take the glance of it (unless you are already readed it then nvm lel)

I read them and unless there's an actual blog detailing the matter that I missed, what I've seen doesn't seem to be enough for this to get a rating.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I am neutral for now, but first, I would think this page should help out with the details.

 

[Dog3352]

I am neutral for now, but first, I would think this page should help out with the details.

The point is: What is used for the creation of the realm and an adept ability called Waijing/mind power, and some materials, does not have feats of similar level to this (at least not shown here) without it being the creation of a realm, the "universal energy system" in Genshin and the elemental energy, which is not used in the creation of the realm.
At best, I believe this feat only scales to realm creation, as it's not something that any character has been shown to be able to do with pure AP (elemental energy).
It's like Rimuru and his imaginary space.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Seeing how the Serenitea pot world is not a true one.
What makes the assumption that the Stars or the light source inside it is merely a false star?
The Size of Serenitea pot is iirc city to mountainous. a far smaller world doesn't necessarily need a large light source

Furthermore there exist a kind of a light source within the verse that is capable of lighting up an entire large area using only but a big tower (i forgot the name of the realm but its the original realm of Sangonomiya clan or something)

 

[GarrixianXD]

Despite the fact that there is no proof that subspace creation scales to AP, other than but, we still have many other things needed, like Waijing/"mind power", in addition to some specific items.

I know that, I don't want to elaborate because it's a pointless subject.

Most of that is game mechanics, this "adept energy" is just a game system that increases according to the amount of items you put in the game, this serves to earn more coins and increase the limit of coins, it's not like it's power or something type. According to Tubby's explanation, item creation uses subspace creation, as the person uses imagination/mind for the item to take the shape we want, and this still wouldn't scale to AP, as the Traveler only uses subspace creation to that the item takes shape, and does not create the item or the materials of item.

The quote is clear and direct, "we use enough energy to dry up the seas", there is no analogy here, there is no other "sea" to use as an analogy, because something so direct and obvious would be an analogy to something, that and just pushing it too hard, Genshin uses analogies and metaphors, but that's obviously not a metaphor, you're just pushing it for the scale to happen, and are you sure a character with AP island is capable of drying up the sea of an entire planet with an atack?

It's in the commentary, Madame Ping mentions the feat while explaining realm creation, and in one comment, she puts Morax's feats (mountain) above realm creation.

I already explained how sub-space creation is based on elemental energy which can also be harnessed for destruction. Adeptal energy is used to transmute and manipulate matter with the Realm Depot as well as sub-space creation, I’m sure it’s pretty evident the method Traveller uses to create items out of thin air is Adeptal energy.

Fair enough, the destruction system could be game mechanics since we never seen an erasure feat in Genshin, however, still doesn’t explain the type of elemental power used to power-up the crossbows.

Raiden herself could vaporize the seas across Inazuma through her volition anytime she wants. Drying up all water across a planet or continent would be drying up the ocean, not seas. She doesn’t need to harness power from clashing with her puppet to vaporize the sea; otherwise, if 500 years of a battle could barely dry up seas, it would be enough to qualify for a downgrade from High 6-C.

Perhaps she meant Morax’s true power in-general not just that feat alone.

About Subspaces Creation: Subspaces are created from an adept skill (Waijing), specific items, mind power.

Post-creation: Realms are created with their own "sun", sky, sea, etc (probably depending on what the realm looks like).

About: Subspaces are not true worlds, and have their limitations:

Paimon: Wow, is that all it takes? Then... we could build a whole city inside, couldn't we!
Tubby: Hmm... I doubt it. A golden-eyed adeptus explained this to me at some point in the past.
Tubby: He said that even though Sub-Space Creation is a product of adeptal power, even that has its limits.
Tubby: This world is not a true one, after all. It provides merely a moment of brief respite from the mortal realm, not a means of escaping it entirely.

Taking into account the realms that we see in the game, they all look different, which means that the person chooses the appearance of the kingdom at the time of creation (probably using the power of the mind).

This is due to the fact that Madame Ping is not seen with materials that would be needed to create the items she already has in the realm's po-creation, such as a sun, sea, earth, house, etc. In addition to Madam Ping asking for items that we have not seen in the realm, and would have nothing to do with it.

Madame Ping: Well... For starters, I require some Shimmersoil from the banks of Dihua Marsh. Back in the day, it could only be found where the Glaze Lilies thrived most profusely.

Which means that it's quite obvious that creating a subspace is different from creating the items inside, as you have to "prepare the materials" (have them) to create the items using the power of your mind, being materials they use to create the same object normally (such as wood to create a chair), different from subspace creation.


Not only does subspace creation not use materials like item creation (like taking water from an ocean to create an ocean in the realm), it also uses adept abilities (Waijing) and mind power, as far as I've seen none of that seems to escalate to AP.


And about the creation of items, in addition to not having anything to indicate that Traveler has created something like a city or something (taking into account the limit mentioned by Tubby, and nothing in the lore mentions this), there is still the fact that who has no reason to escalate to AP, Traveler just needs to get the materials, the creation of the item comes from the imagination/mind.

The harnessing of materials before creation applies to the Traveler, not to mention a small quantity of negligible pieces could create large abundances. Was there really an official statement confirming sub-spaces are embedded of stars, sea, sky, etc. by default? At least I can’t seem to recall in-game. If a small quantity object could be transmuted into something abnormally bigger with discrete properties, I don’t see how transforming a rock into a sun would be such an impossible staggering outlier.

The point is: What is used for the creation of the realm and an adept ability called Waijing/mind power, and some materials, does not have feats of similar level to this (at least not shown here) without it being the creation of a realm, the "universal energy system" in Genshin and the elemental energy, which is not used in the creation of the realm.
At best, I believe this feat only scales to realm creation, as it's not something that any character has been shown to be able to do with pure AP (elemental energy).
It's like Rimuru and his imaginary space.

I’m sure the mind abilities and powers are simply Adeptal energy (also serving as a more superior universal energy system for GI), only the adeptus availed the mind (amalgamated the mind and elemental energy) to create those sub-spaces since the creation of its space-time need’s imagination.

I've read the OP and skimmed most of the thread so I probably missed some things. Anyway, reality warping and Type 3 conceptual manipulation seem fine at a glance but I may change my mind on that.

Scaling everyone to 4-C is pretty iffy on that feat alone. Setting aside the lack of a universal energy system, even series with such things need to prove consistency for a direct tier. Seeing as there doesn't seem to be enough proof of the former from what I can gather, I'll disagree for now.

I haven’t edited the thread yet, I forgot to list quite a few significant information especially the universal energy system. I might need a full-on revision of it, hence, I’d also must concede there are additional information that are suspiciously incorrect or irrelevant. There hasn’t been much lore regarding Adeptal sub-spaces, I dunno if that would prove consistency or not. I don’t recall any concrete evidence debunking the tier of those realms either.

I read them and unless there's an actual blog detailing the matter that I missed, what I've seen doesn't seem to be enough for this to get a rating.

For another thread I suppose, this section is a mess rn ngl

 

[GarrixianXD]

Seeing how the Serenitea pot world is not a true one.
What makes the assumption that the Stars or the light source inside it is merely a false star?
The Size of Serenitea pot is iirc city to mountainous. a far smaller world doesn't necessarily need a large light source

Furthermore there exist a kind of a light source within the verse that is capable of lighting up an entire large area using only but a big tower (i forgot the name of the realm but its the original realm of Sangonomiya clan or something)

Enkanomiya is completely submerged underground and it’s lighted up by an artificial sun as bright as an actual star. Not to mention it doesn’t have an atmosphere nor sky, hence those realms containing a star rather than some giant light source could be more accurate. Not to mention it might be millions of kilometers from the base atmosphere itself. The actual size of the Serenitea pot is unknown since it’s confined by world barriers (or Paimon, more rathe) but its evident there’s land far beyond the world barriers.

Not to mention the actual extent of Enkanomiya isn’t even know either

Dainichi Mikoshi

The Dainichi Mikoshi (Japanese: 大日御輿 "Great Sun Mikoshi") is a subarea in Enkanomiya, Inazuma. It is an artificial sun that was created by Aberaku no Mikoto in order to protect Byakuyakoku from the Bathysmal Vishaps. It can be toggled on and off to control Enkanomiya's day and night...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Enkanomiya is completely submerged underground and it’s lighted up by an artificial sun as bright as an actual star. Not to mention it doesn’t have an atmosphere nor sky, hence those realms containing a star rather than some giant light source could be more accurate. Not to mention it might be millions of kilometers from the base atmosphere itself. The actual size of the Serenitea pot is unknown since it’s confined by world barriers (or Paimon, more rathe) but its evident there’s land far beyond the world barriers.

yes, i already included the background when I mentioned how its size is from city size to mountainous.
As bright as an actual star =/= as big as an actual star
You can achieve a similar brightness of an actual sun in a small room with just a slightly brighter light bulb
distance matters here.
Since we are unaware of how far the light source is and that there are direct statement of the world being fake and some things inside it needs to be created with material from outside world I'm currently disagreeing on how this should even be tierrable even if valid for UES

 

[GarrixianXD]

yes, i already included the background when I mentioned how its size is from city size to mountainous.
As bright as an actual star =/= as big as an actual star
You can achieve a similar brightness of an actual sun in a small room with just a slightly brother light bulb
distance matters here.
Since we are unaware of how far the light source is and that there are direct statement of the world being fake and some things inside it needs to be created with material from outside world I'm currently disagreeing on how this should even be tierrable even if valid for UES

I never stated Enkanomiya artificial sun was a size of an actual star, but oh well. Brightness also correlates with electromagnetic energy/radiation, if the light source came it too close of a contact with abnormal excrescence of photon concentrations then all the land would instantly incinerate, hence it definitely shouldn’t be that close of a distance. Unless you assume the law of physics won’t apply at all.