Garou VS Kaidou

[Phoenks]

Voting for Garou for various advantages:

• AP Advantage. Garou upscales from 2.5 Petatons vs Kaidou upscaling from 1 Petaton. Sure he has a scaling chain but Garou scales to a guy who is 2.5 petatons by just spinning around.
• Vastly superior Reactive Evolution. This has already been mentioned. He can go from 6-A to 5-C during a single fight. Even if he's capped at 6-A he'll still always hold a significant AP advantage over Kaidou. Kaidou can't significantly damage Garou without him evolving and becoming stronger. Not to mention speed. If Garou fights him for long enough at around the same speed he will continually become faster until eventually blitzing him.
• Regeneration. The dude instantaneously regrows limbs.
• Garou's heat resistance is superior to Orochi and Overgrown Rover's blasts that can instantly vaporize the Monster Association base, which could somewhat withstand Phoenix Man's 10000-degree flames.
• Kaidou absolutely doesn't have the endurance or stamina advantage here. Just read Garou's stamina section lmao.
• Garou's Durability Negation has no reason to be resisted by Kaidou, and he starts with it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

• Platinum and Garou
  • Garou, Flashy and Platinum are comparable here (0.55c)
  • Later, Garou and Platinum overcome Flashy
  • After Flashy is defeated, Platinum and Garou begin to evolve even more (4.33c)
  • At the end, Garou Speedblitz and one-shot Platinum
• Elder Centipede and Garou
  • Has difficulty going against an Sage's hand and could have died to his attack. Sage can also withstand Garou's attacks easily
  • Garou can evolve and achieve the perfect fist, and then defeat Sage Centipede with one move
• Ripper and Garou
  • Garou was mutilated by Ripper and is comparable to him
  • One-Shot Ripper later

Among many other examples. At some point Garou will overcome Kaido and defeat him in one punch

 

[Phoenks]

• Platinum and Garou
  • Garou, Flashy and Platinum are comparable here (0.55c)
  • Later, Garou and Platinum overcome Flashy
  • After Flashy is defeated, Platinum and Garou begin to evolve even more (4.33c)
  • At the end, Garou Speedblitz and one-shot Platinum
• Elder Centipede and Garou
  • Has difficulty going against an Elder's hand and could have died to his attack. Elder can also withstand Garou's attacks easily
  • Garou can evolve and achieve the perfect fist, and then defeat Elder Centipede with one move
• Ripper and Garou
  • Garou was mutilated by Ripper and is comparable to him
  • One-Shot Ripper later

Among many other examples. At some point Garou will overcome Kaido and defeat him in one punch

He also was briefly struggling to do significant damage to Sage Centipede but quickly evolved and basically one-shot him afterward.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Garou should take this, skill advantage and evolution. He'll eventually stat stomp as well.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sage Centipede

... I got the names mixed up

 

[LordGinSama]

Which is why i said "Garou has Haki" and not "Garou can use Haki".

No.

Haki being an energy that every being with willpower and/or a soul have in OP means anyone that fulfills those two things will also have Haki even if they have not awakened or can't properly control it while under verse equalization.

Garou isn't from One Piece, he'd only have Haki if his enegry system was similar. We wouldn't assume Garou has God Ki or Reiatsu, we wouldn't do the same for Haki

As for not granting abilities... Sure? I never claimed it would grant Garou anything specific?

Irrelevant.

 

[LordGinSama]

Voting for Garou for various advantages:

• AP Advantage. Garou upscales from 2.5 Petatons vs Kaidou upscaling from 1 Petaton. Sure he has a scaling chain but Garou scales to a guy who is 2.5 petatons by just spinning around.

The difference in AP is negligible.

• Vastly superior Reactive Evolution. This has already been mentioned. He can go from 6-A to 5-C during a single fight. Even if he's capped at 6-A he'll still always hold a significant AP advantage over Kaidou.

6-A is such a small tier that neither combatant would really have a "significant." advantage over one another.

• Kaidou can't significantly damage Garou without him evolving and becoming stronger.

And? Garou can't effectively put down Kaido either.

• Not to mention speed. If Garou fights him for long enough at around the same speed he will continually become faster until eventually blitzing him.

Future sight that allows the users to see minutes into the future takes care of that amongst his own speed amps.

• Regeneration. The dude instantaneously regrows limbs.

Haki negates Mid levels of Regeneration.

• Garou's heat resistance is superior to Orochi and Overgrown Rover's blasts that can instantly vaporize the Monster Association base,

It wasn't vaped, there was visible large chunks of debris left from Rover's attack and Orochi's is blatantly melting.

• which could somewhat withstand Phoenix Man's 10000-degree flames.

Kaido's heat can burn Luffy's who can stand within Akainu's passive heat Aura which is way above 10'000 C.

• Kaidou absolutely doesn't have the endurance or stamina advantage here. Just read Garou's stamina section lmao.

Lmao I have and it's nothing in comparison to Kaido who can eat durability negation attacks like a dog, including having his heart ruptured, organs torn apart and having his brain attacked several times. In terms of stamina Kaido is sweeping, Kaido scales to characters who can fight who 5-10 days non-stop. Garou has nothing on Kaido here.

• Garou's Durability Negation has no reason to be resisted by Kaidou, and he starts with it.

Regeneration and has tanked much more impressive durability negation.

 

[LordGinSama]

No, it is not.

Yes, it is.

28,000 °C is what Akainu is passively.

 

[KingTempest]

Voting for Garou for various advantages:

What in the one sided?

• Massive AP Advantage. Garou upscales from 4 Petatons vs Kaidou upscaling from 1 Petaton. Sure he has a scaling chain but Garou scales to a guy who is 4 petatons by just spinning around.

He doesn't upscale from 4 Petatons at all.

• Vastly superior Reactive Evolution. This has already been mentioned. He can go from 6-A to 5-C during a single fight. Even if he's capped at 6-A he'll still always hold a significant AP advantage over Kaidou. Kaidou can't significantly damage Garou without him evolving and becoming stronger.

Who said he can't significantly damage him?
Kaidou can just send cutting attacks his way.

• Regeneration. The dude instantaneously regrows limbs.

Regen negation.

• Garou's heat resistance is superior to Orochi and Overgrown Rover's blasts that can instantly vaporize the Monster Association base, which could somewhat withstand Phoenix Man's 10000-degree flames.

What Gin said

• Kaidou absolutely doesn't have the endurance or stamina advantage here. Just read Garou's stamina section lmao.

There isn't a single thing there that is above Kaidou's average feats or scaling.

• Garou's Durability Negation has no reason to be resisted by Kaidou, and he starts with it.

Kaidou took Kamaa Sonic, blade shaped shockwaves which are pretty much supposed to cut your insides, nothing happened to him.
Kaidou took the Gamma Knife, a technique which tears apart the body from the inside, which hurt Doflamingo who took a Diable Jambe kick, which burns to the bone.
Kaidou scales ridiculous levels above Dressrosa Luffy who can take internal shockwaves strong enough to break metal shields
Same Luffy who scales drastically above his Enies Lobby form, who can take Rokuogans, internal shockwaves several times stronger than Impact Dials
Same Luffy who scales drastically above his Skypiea form, who can take impact dials.

Garou's durability negation is nothing

 

[Eminiteable]

Regarding Kaidou's future sight it's not something he uses often, he only ever used it once when he was being bombarded with continuous blows with no means of escape otherwise, and afterwards showed no signs of actively using it like before.

 

[KingTempest]

He uses it when there's a drastic speed advantage.

Regular observation is fine. If he amps his speed, then he'll use it.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Kaidou seems to have the upper hand here to be blunt...

 

[Jibz]

“Garou would have haki” is genuinely the more dumb version of “Ultron would have a soul, as even items have souls in bleach”. No Garou wont have haki jesus. Dont give verse exclusive powers to others because “verse equalize”.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah Garou's good and he'd beat Kaidou 4 times out of 10
Kaidou's winning 6/10. His endurance is godly.

Garou's endurance and stamina feats are "he's been knocked unconscious, then he gets back up and fights close to his regular self". Ok everyone in One Piece.

Luffy's reactive power level was making him go up 10x in minutes. Haki's reactive power level is superior to that, and Kaidou has that along with many amps.

I vote Kaidou

 

[Greatsage13th]

Yeah Garou's good and he'd beat Kaidou 4 times out of 10
Kaidou's winning 6/10. His endurance is godly.

Garou's endurance and stamina feats are "he's been knocked unconscious, then he gets back up and fights close to his regular self". Ok everyone in One Piece.

Luffy's reactive power level was making him go up 10x in minutes. Haki's reactive power level is superior to that, and Kaidou has that along with many amps.

I vote Kaidou

I Too Shall Vote Kaidou

 

[LordGinSama]

If I hadn't made it clear, I'm voting Kaidou.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The difference in AP is negligible.

Advantage of 2.5 times is not negligible, not even close. It is something extremely advantageous. For example, it makes quite a difference when you lift something that weighs 50 kg and something that weighs 150 kg, it's a really considerable difference. Maybe you can interpret "Ap IS insignificant" simply because it is not the minimum value for One-Shot (To which, by the way, is subjustive in many cases), but 2.5 times is not even close to being irrelevant and much less useless. I really don't see the sense in your comment. It's similar to saying that a person who runs 7 meters per second is comparable to a person who runs 17 meters per second in a competition.

6-A is such a small tier that neither combatant would really have a "significant." advantage over one another.

You miss the point. Garou can evolve from 6-A to 5-C, ANYTHING BETWEEN THESE TWO TIERS IS POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO ACHIEVE IN SECONDS OR EVEM LESS. He is not limited to 6-A and never will be, Garou's reactive evolution is something passive in monster form, he will not stop evolving until he defeats Kaido completely. I have shown some examples of Garou's evolution, usually he reaches levels that surpass his previous opponent in divine levels. Another notable example was when he was not able to scratch the Bug God's skin, but later, while he was sleeping, he showed that he was able to fight Darkshine, someone who by moving his muscles defeated/exploded Bug God's second form. Even later managing to defeat and match Darkshine's full strength. He will basically become immeasurably stronger than his opponent, but in an unqualified way

• Platinum and Garou
  • Garou, Flashy and Platinum are comparable here (0.55c)
  • Later, Garou and Platinum overcome Flashy
  • After Flashy is defeated, Platinum and Garou begin to evolve even more (4.33c)
  • At the end, Garou Speedblitz and one-shot Platinum
• Elder Centipede and Garou
  • Has difficulty going against an Sage's hand and could have died to his attack. Sage can also withstand Garou's attacks easily
  • Garou can evolve and achieve the perfect fist, and then defeat Sage Centipede with one move
• Ripper and Garou
  • Garou was mutilated by Ripper and is comparable to him
  • One-Shot Ripper later

Among many other examples. At some point Garou will overcome Kaido and defeat him in one punch

Future sight that allows the users to see minutes into the future takes care of that amongst his own speed amps.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kaido use the future sight only near the end of the fight against Luffy? In case my memory is correct, I don't think this will be a big problem, since Garou would defeat him long before that or at least evolve to the point where anything from Kaido would be irrelevant.

Kaido's heat can burn Luffy's who can stand within Akainu's passive heat Aura which is way above 10'000 C.

No

Regeneration and has tanked much more impressive durability negation.

When Kaido had all his organs destroyed and all his bones broken?

 

[Greatsage13th]

When Kaido had all his organs destroyed and all his bones broken?

Here's the good thing, he doesn't. Since he resists.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

“Garou would have haki” is genuinely the more dumb version of “Ultron would have a soul, as even items have souls in bleach”. No Garou wont have haki jesus. Dont give verse exclusive powers to others because “verse equalize”.

That was simply my comment at the beginning of that match, and soon after Snook corrected me. I don't know why you guys are up to now with this shit

 

[Jibz]

I don't know why you guys are up to now with this shit

What’s this imply?

 

[LordGinSama]

Advantage of 2.5 times is not negligible, not even close. It is something extremely advantageous.

Extreme is far from the proper term to use here mate and we both know your being intentionally hyperbolic. A 2x advantage is not a game changer at all, it's definitely an advantage but not to the extent your making seem.

For example, it makes quite a difference when you carry something that weighs 50 kg and something that weighs 150 kg, it's a really considerable difference.

That's lifting strength, not AP. Two different things.

Maybe you can interpret "Ap IS insignificant" simply because it is not the minimum value for One-Shot (To which, by the way, is subjustive in many cases),

The one shot figure is 7.5 last i checked so no.

but 2.5 times is not even close to being irrelevant and much less useless.

It's definitely useless against someone with Reactive Evolution, several means of amps, Regeneration, etc. Context matters my child.

I really don't see the sense in your comment. It's similar to saying that a person who runs 7 meters per second is similar to a person who runs 17 meters per second in a competition.

Once again, applying what I said and adding completely different situations upon it. This is what we call a "strawman." and done intentionally. Much like your poor Lifting Strength comparison, this wouldn't be applicable.

You miss the point. Garou can evolve from 6-A to 5-C, ANYTHING BETWEEN THESE TWO TIERS IS POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO ACHIEVE IN SECONDS OR EVEM LESS.

Calm down, adding a bunch of caps won't make your argument any better. Garou is not permitted to go past 6-A here unless stated otherwise.

He is not limited to 6-A and never will be,

According to the OP, no Garou isn't permitted to go beyond 6-A.

Garou's reactive evolution is something passive in monster form, he will not stop evolving until he defeats Kaido completely.

Reactive Evolution is typically a passive ability in most cases so i fail how this means jack especially given that Post Time Skip Luffy has the same thing.

I have shown some examples of Garou's evolution, usually he reaches levels that surpass his previous opponent in divine levels.

And so has King with Luffy's Reactive Evolution.

Another notable example was when he was not able to scratch the Bug God's, but later, while he was sleeping, he showed that he was able to fight Darkshine, someone who by moving his muscles defeated Bug God's second form. Even later managing to defeat and match Darkshine's full strength. He will basically become immeasurably stronger than his opponent, but in an unqualified way.

Say no more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kaido use the future sight only near the end of the fight against Luffy? In case my memory is correct, I don't think this will be a big problem, since Garou would defeat him long before that or at least evolve to the point where anything from Kaido would be irrelevant.

Ahhh okay so now Garou is Doomsday? There is such thing as NLF, I seriously doubt Garou is gaining a resistance to temporal precog.

No.

Yes.

When Kaido had all his organs destroyed and all his bones broken?

Had the majority of them cut by Killer, had his organs attacked by Luffy dozens of times including his head, and had his heart blown up by Law.

 

[LordGinSama]

Btw King Of Life before you even comment your Carbon nonsense

1: Your comparing two different art styles from two different manga, obviously they won't look the same.

2: Full color scans disagree with you, the sword was vaporized and the only thing there is a piece of Akainu's own magma.


3: It's already accepted.

 

[SnookB]

1 PT < Issho < Akainu ~ Hybrid Marco ~ 1 Homie Big Mom ~ Base Kaidou < Hybrid < Buso Hybrid < Buso Hao Hybrid < Drunk Buso Hao Hybrid < His super strong ass magma dragon (which is about to be < 4 PT)

jesuschrist


Anyway, I'm going to very openly IGNORE all arguments of "Garou learns haki" because they're dumb.
Voting Kaido. He's got blitz amps with his bagua.
Layered precog. Insane temperatures. Two layers of empowerment. So high up the scaling over 1.1 that there's zero difference. His insides are as strong as his outsides. Danmaku and AOE spam if he needs to. Regen negging via Busoshoku. Unpredictability to neg layered precog when drunk. GODLY endurance compared to Garou. And regen that repairs internal and external wounds fairly quickly during battle if not negged.

Garou needs to even get close and even then that's one factor out of several that Kaido has.

Voting Kaido. The "garou learns haki" argument alone was enough for me to realize the debate will be one-sided anyway

 

[Magmag]

What LoK stated, garou just adapts beyond kaidou and kaidou won't be able to hit him after a few moments, his RE is cracked.
garou blitzes as seen going even, increase his speed many fold in milliseconds, great heat resistance against orochi blazing and vaporzing everything, scaling far above SC, struggling to damage him and being low diffed then one shotting him 2 attacks later, so stats aren't a problem and neither is heat. Smooth like butter, doesn't get hit, or should i say he won't get hit. Garou just does what garou does and beats kaido.

 

[XDragnoir]

Question, Garou's evolution happens with or without him wanting it? Cause there was a thread that changed the rules so that abilities triggered regardless of their user's will can't be restricted.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

2: Full color scans disagree with you, the sword was vaporized and the only thing there is a piece of Akainu's own magma.

But nothing has changed

 

[LordGinSama]

Also remind me how Garou is gonna react to Kaidou's invisible air slashes whenever people with better senses with Kenbunshoku Haki couldn't / had trouble reacting to them?

 

[SnookB]

• Garou, Flashy and Platinum are comparable here (0.55c)
• Later, Garou and Platinum overcome Flashy
• After Flashy is defeated, Platinum and Garou begin to evolve even more (4.33c)
• At the end, Garou Speedblitz and one-shot Platinum

Kaido blitzes Luffy with TB
Luffy intercepts TB mid-strike in round 3
Drunk Kaido blitzes Luffy with thunder hammered TB
Luffy then goes Gear Four which is a blitz amp to comparables
Super Hybrid Kaido then blitzes Luffy AGAIN.
Gear 5 starts wacking Kaido's shit- then Kaido adapts AGAIN anyway and even blitzes G5 with Death Destroyer's amp

Kaido can evolve extremely fast as well. It's about the same if not greater in Kaido's case for having speed amps.

• Garou was mutilated by Ripper and is comparable to him
• One-Shot Ripper later

Didn't he get DISTRACTED, jumped, cheap shotted, then woke up several hours/days later (I forgor) THEN one-shot Ripper? That's slow as hell for RE.
Hell, if he even NEEDED RE. Garou might've been able to one-shot Ripper the whole time but the factors on their first round (Tareo being there, the roach pressing Garou constantly) just didn't allow it

 

[LordGinSama]

But nothing has changed

Hmm I see an empty comment.

The upper half of the sword is completely gone, no residue left over. It was vaporized, not carbonized. I'm not even sure you know what carbonized means, as that would imply that the upper half of the sword was turned into charcoal which obviously would be clearly visible. There are no signs of the upper half of the sword being turned into charcoal, instead we're given a shot of it completely vaporized.

 

[KingTempest]

Didn't he get DISTRACTED, jumped, cheap shotted, then woke up several hours/days later (I forgor) THEN one-shot Ripper? That's slow as hell for RE.
Hell, if he even NEEDED RE. Garou might've been able to one-shot Ripper the whole time but the factors on their first round (Tareo being there, the roach pressing Garou constantly) just didn't allow it

Luffy has better RPE

 

[LordGinSama]

Also remind me how Garou is gonna react to Kaidou's invisible air slashes whenever people with better senses with Kenbunshoku Haki couldn't / had trouble reacting to them?

^


Literally what stops Garou from getting cut into chunks?

 

[SnookB]

It is that severe.

I don't see it being severe. There's literally ZERO PROOF that it is. If you look at how Ryuou is portrayed with the blocks it literally obliterates the insides of the things it hits, and Kaido tanks it anyway.
It shows the internal shockwaves variant of ryuou literally shattering the target instead of just hitting it.

When Luffy uses it in base on a tree
The tree gets HOLLOWED OUT

You could argue "it is that severe" for Ryuou as well, even more so than being "torn to shreds"

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Hmm I see an empty comment.

The upper half of the sword is completely gone, no residue left over. It was vaporized, not carbonized. I'm not even sure you know what carbonized means, as that would imply that the upper half of the sword was turned into charcoal which obviously would be clearly visible. There are no signs of the upper half of the sword being turned into charcoal, instead we're given a shot of it completely vaporized.

What prevents it from being a small sword like this one

Besides going to vaporization and then to carbonization is completely non sense

Nor is there any sign of steam, which is something oda usually draws

 

[Magmag]

^


Literally what stops Garou from getting cut into chunks?

garou also has air slash techniques, so like...(WICF is the name of it incase u were wondering).

 

[Kachon123]

I don't see it being severe. There's literally ZERO PROOF that it is. If you look at how Ryuou is portrayed with the blocks it literally obliterates the insides of the things it hits, and Kaido tanks it anyway.

The Ryou that Kaido tanked were from people 1/4 of his AP iirc. Garou not only has superior AP which is constantly increasing at a rapid rate, he has durability negation that would shred him apart.

 

[Kachon123]

^


Literally what stops Garou from getting cut into chunks?

Instictive reactions potent enough to allow him to fight people comparable, and in some cases superior to him in every stat.

 

[SnookB]

The Ryou that Kaido tanked were from people 1/4 of his AP iirc. Garou not only has superior AP which is constantly increasing at a rapid rate, he has durability negation that would shred him apart.

It shows the internal shockwaves variant of ryuou literally shattering the target instead of just hitting it.

When Luffy uses it in base on a tree
The tree gets HOLLOWED OUT

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm going to sleep now

But I realize this is going to be another toxic thread

 

[SnookB]

The Ryou that Kaido tanked were from people 1/4 of his AP iirc.

Luffy isn't 1/4 of his AP. Kaido was taking numerous hits from him.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I'm going to sleep now

But I realize this is going to be another toxic thread

The teapot calling the kettle black.