Four Knights of the Apocalypse/Nanatsu no Taizai Main Discussion Thread

[helper]

Proof? Also, Tristan explicitly enchants the weapon.

tristan use lightening and darkness, percy can use fire, and gawain use fire

 

[ByAsura]

Percy has Hero Type, which allows him to emulate properties of other forms of magic.

Gawain doesn't have fire, she has Escanor's Grace, which produces immense heat and light.

 

[Zezu1995]

ya until we see a sin use enchantment in the new series we dont scale them right? cuz we know they can but we need more proof? or do they need to clash

 

[helper]

Percy has Hero Type, which allows him to emulate properties of other forms of magic.

Gawain doesn't have fire, she has Escanor's Grace, which produces immense heat and light.

he still have destroyer type

 

[ByAsura]

And Enchanter.

 

[speedster352]

Percy has Hero Type, which allows him to emulate properties of other forms of magic.

Gawain doesn't have fire, she has Escanor's Grace, which produces immense heat and light.

Would Gilthunder lightning count for destroyer type? What about enchant hellblaze?

 

[helper]

And Enchanter.

he has most of them

 

[Makai641001]

Proof? Also, Tristan explicitly enchants the weapon.

They can have multiple magic types and Tristan manipulate light

 

[ByAsura]

Would Gilthunder lightning count for destroyer type? What about enchant hellblaze?

I think so. He and Howzer are shown using them without weapons, and it takes a compatible Sacred Treasure to work properly.

I'm not sure about Hellblaze. Is it natural?

They can have multiple magic types and Tristan manipulate light

he has most of them

I'm not arguing that he doesn't have it at all, I'm arguing he used Enchanter in this panel. The fact that they have multiple types supports my claim.

 

[helper]

I'm not arguing that he doesn't have it at all, I'm arguing he used Enchanter in this panel. The fact that they have multiple types supports my claim.

oh, i thought u was saying that percy isnt a destroyer type

 

[VsReferee]

I'm not sure about Hellblaze. Is it natural?

hm, it seems to be magic. Why though?
is enchantment natural?

 

[ByAsura]

Destroyer is exclusively natural forces, while enchanter is either natural or unnatural (and it's also not exclusive to items like that list says).

 

[speedster352]

Destroyer is exclusively natural forces, while enchanter is either natural or unnatural (and it's also not exclusive to items like that list says).

What about earth magic? Does light magic count as destroyer?

 

[helper]

hm, it seems to be magic. Why though?
is enchantment natural?

enchantment is both natural and unnatural

 

[ByAsura]

What about earth magic? Does light magic count as destroyer?

No clue.

 

[speedster352]

No clue.

Then darkness and hellblaze can count for destroyer type since demons can use it without weapons

 

[Zezu1995]

hellblaze is also natural and non, cuz one of them is magic the other is just purgatory fire... which they can manipulate soo its hard to say xd seems like another darkness issue

 

[speedster352]

Ludoshel couldn't even push back Derieri with an attack concentrated from both hands.

This is substantiated by Indura Monspeet casually overpowering Sariel and Tarmiel's entire bodies with each set of limbs.

Elizabeth flares her aura and almost overpowers both of them at once while using the same form of magic.

It's contradicted by the in-universe statement that Mael, Ludoshel and Elizabeth are equivalent to Meliodas, but this scaling contradicts itself because Elizabeth, Mael and Meliodas are stated and shown to be stronger than Ludoshel.

So I think it's entirely reasonable for Elizabeth to be 2x True Body Ludoshel in the new scaling, and for us to ignore the dumb statements.

What does everyone think?

Is this accepted? Can it be used?

 

[speedster352]

No clue.

If you apply destroyer magic to a weapon the amp is 10x does that correlate to durability?

 

[ByAsura]

If you apply destroyer magic to a weapon the amp is 10x does that correlate to durability?

I don't think it should intrinsically. Most characters don't even scale to their unenhanced weapons in NNT/4KoA.

Then darkness and hellblaze can count for destroyer type since demons can use it without weapons

Sure. I guess Hellblaze can oscillate between the two, though.

 

[speedster352]

I don't think it should intrinsically. Most characters don't even scale to their unenhanced weapons in NNT/4KoA.

Sure. I guess Hellblaze can oscillate between the two, though.

Say a continental character takes no damage from their FC enchanted destroyer attack does that give them multi continental to planetary durability?

 

[ByAsura]

Depends on how far they are into continent level.

Absolutely no on planetary. Baseline Small Planet level is almost 100,000 times baseline Multi-Continent level.

 

[speedster352]

Depends on how far they are into continent level.

Absolutely no on planetary. Baseline Small Planet level is almost 100,000 times baseline Multi-Continent level.

My bad I meant moon level would that work?

 

[ByAsura]

Baseline Moon level is 6674 times baseline Multi-Continent level.

 

[speedster352]

Baseline Moon level is 6674 times baseline Multi-Continent level.

So why exactly can’t the magic types be used in nnt same for the amps. It’s not contradicted

 

[ByAsura]

It straight up makes Gilthunder and basically every Holy Knight a walking contradiction. We've discussed this in past pages of the thread.

 

[speedster352]

It straight up makes Gilthunder and basically every Holy Knight a walking contradiction. We've discussed this in past pages of the thread.

What were the arguments? Gilthunder hitting Meliodas with his elbow?

 

[speedster352]

enchantment is both natural and unnatural

Does light magic count as destroyer type?

 

[speedster352]

It straight up makes Gilthunder and basically every Holy Knight a walking contradiction. We've discussed this in past pages of the thread.

How are the Britannia demon king and mother creation calc going? Is Escanor vaping the sea rejected? How are the LS calcs going?

 

[ByAsura]

What were the arguments? Gilthunder hitting Meliodas with his elbow?

Basically, amped up weaponry consistently doesn't change the dynamics of a fight 10-fold.

Literally your average Holy Knight is about 1/10th as strong as a Sin in magic and physical power. I think you even agreed with me based on that.

How are the Britannia demon king and mother creation calc going?

As I said, I'm doing them once Part 1 is finished.

Is Escanor vaping the sea rejected?

Yes.

How are the LS calcs going?

It's just those two.

 

[speedster352]

Basically, amped up weaponry consistently doesn't change the dynamics of a fight 10-fold.

As I said, I'm doing them once Part 1 is finished.

Yes.

It's just those two.

Then it shouldn’t apply to the fight then? I mean they could only harm the sins with weaponry

 

[ByAsura]

No. Ruin, Guila, Gilthunder, etc could harm them without weaponry, and some of them have matched them with and without imbuing their weapons.

 

[speedster352]

No. Ruin, Guila, Gilthunder, etc could harm them without weaponry, and some of them have matched them with and without imbuing their weapons.

But weren’t they suppressed? we went over this in the past the sins suppressed themselves against the holy knights with exception of a few fights.

 

[ByAsura]

We did go over this, and there's nothing to suggest that suppressing lowers durability, or even that they were suppressed.

Edit: Also, here's you disagreeing with the 10x logic.

 

[speedster352]

No. Ruin, Guila, Gilthunder, etc could harm them without weaponry, and some of them have matched them with and without imbuing their weapons.

Also you forgot to update the intelligence of certain characters like chandler and cusack

We did go over this, and there's nothing to suggest that suppressing lowers durability, or even that they were suppressed.

What about Meliodas saying that I shouldn’t hold back too much against the holy knights after the baize fight. Meliodas holding back against Gilthunder on the white forest of dreams. Meliodas not killing the holy knights he fought those are all instances of them holding back.

 

[ByAsura]

What about Meliodas saying that I shouldn’t hold back too much against the holy knights after the baize fight.

Irrelevant. We're not talking about strength, we're talking about the toughness of his skin and bone. Also, he doesn't hold back against everyone.

Meliodas holding back against Gilthunder on the white forest of dreams.

He then explicitly proceeded to not do that in the fight at Liones Castle, which included Hendrickson as well.

Meliodas not killing the holy knights he fought those are all instances of them holding back.

If Holy Knights could amp their attack power 10x with a weapon, Mel probably wouldn't hold back a lot. So I think this is proof of concept.

 

[speedster352]

We did go over this, and there's nothing to suggest that suppressing lowers durability, or even that they were suppressed.

Edit: Also, here's you disagreeing with the 10x logic.

That’s fine I did disagree with it but I just wanted to hear the arguments against it since it’s not that contradictory IMO but whatever

 

[speedster352]

Irrelevant. We're not talking about strength, we're talking about the toughness of his skin and bone.

He then explicitly proceeded to not do that in the fight at Liones Castle.

That’s fine but only the strongest holy knights can somewhat harm the sins without weaponry also Diane tanked combined attacks from multiple holy knights. Why would Guila need a better weapon then similar to a sacred treasure if she could already damage them before? Meliodas did not use hellblaze against Gilthunder, nor wrath nor demon mark(except to block that attack) so you were saying? Also you forgot to update Chandler and cusack stamina and intelligence section

 

[ByAsura]

That’s fine but only the strongest holy knights can somewhat harm the sins without weaponry

We're talking about weaponry amps that'd make them equal to the Sins. That's literally the point.

also Diane tanked combined attacks from multiple holy knights.

Diane is far stronger and tougher than Meliodas.

Why would Guila need a better weapon then similar to a sacred treasure if she could already damage them before?

To face off against King, who wrecked her, or for a completely different reason. Plus, she literally was damaging them, especially with explosion, so this is a terrible point.

Also, all Holy Knights get Sacred Treasures at some point.

Meliodas did not use hellblaze against Gilthunder, nor wrath nor demon mark(except to block that attack) so you were saying?

I'm not talking about Meliodas, I'm talking about them.

But this is a point, too. Why wouldn't Meliodas just change the dynamic of a heavily lopsided fight by amplifying his attack power 10-fold?

 

[speedster352]

Also you forgot to update Chandler and cusack stamina and intelligence section

We're talking about weaponry amps that'd make them equal to the Sins. That's literally the point.

Diane is far stronger and tougher than Meliodas.

To face off against King, who wrecked her, or for a completely different reason. Plus, she literally was damaging them, especially with explosion, so this is a terrible point.

Also, all Holy Knights get Sacred Treasures at some point.

I'm not talking about Meliodas, I'm talking about them.

But this is a point, too. Why wouldn't Meliodas just change the dynamic of a heavily lopsided fight by amplifying his attack power 10-fold?

See this?