Flashy Flash and Ōgon Seishi speed scaling CRT

[Qawsedf234]

As discussed here, some users have proposed upgrading Flashy's speed based on the recent webcomic chapter.

Flashy Flash

Arugments for as presented in the last thread by My area & DbzDB2

but good news you guys, the new webcomic chapter was just released about 20 min ago.

http://galaxyheavyblow.web.fc2.com/fc2-imageviewer/?aid=1&iid=114

here we can see that flash can actually barely keep up with an extremely casual saitama.

the context is that saitama has to land one blow on flash to win, and obviously saitama was super casual, flash was able to dodge about 4 hits iirc

so flash should get a likely relativistic upgrade

Well Flashy Flash was shown to be able to dodge a pre abandonment Monster Garou for a while who's attack should be much faster than Geryuganshoop attacks so I think Flash should scale

I think Flash is atleast faster than Ogon seshi who lost to Garou before he became pre abandonment Garou

Ōgon Seishi

Some people also proposed scaling GS to Tornado/Geryuganshoop

Ogon Seshi should scale to Geryuganshoop as well because Ogon Seshi was able to blitz a weakened Tatsumaki who was able to crush many Koro Seshi at once and took out Multi Koro Seshi who should be above Geryuganshoop

 

[Qawsedf234]

In order to make sure the into post doesn't come off as bias, here's my issues with the scaling.

Flashy Flash

Awakened Garou is stated faster than Flashy Flash and later on moves fast enough to shock Flashy Flash. This is without abandoment which gives him a all around physical boost. However, despite being faster and getting a buff to his physicals Garou himself stated it would likely not be possible for him to dodge Saitama's blows with just speed. Saitama was also actively avoiding Garou's attacks and fighting with him, unlike Flashy Flash

GS

Just because you blitz/overpower people, doesn't mean that he should scale to a character with no backing. Tornado is "only" sub-rel and everyone else there was at most MHS+.

Final Comments

• For Flashy Flash, if people really want to upgrade him. He should either be "At least Sub-Relativistic+, likely higher" or " At least Sub-Relativistic+, possibly Relativistic". I'm not in support of a total upgrade

• For GS, while I'm fine with upgrading him to Tornado's speed of Sub-Relativistic, it relies on ONE's statement about him vs a prime Tornado being debatable. Which has been shot down in the past. If he does get a upgrade it should be "At least Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic"

 

[Damage3245]

Since Saitama appeared to be super casual, how do we know he was moving at Relativistic speeds?

 

[USklaverei]

So, I think like this:

Geryuganshoop has Relativistic attacks and a casual Saitama is far superior to that.

Flashy Flash can react to the attacks of a casual Saitama, but is still inferior to it.

Garou is superior to Flashy Flash and is paréo for a casual Saitama.

I agree with the final comments, I believe that by Flashy Flash as possibly Relativistic is good.

 

[USklaverei]

In GS, I think Sub-Relativist is good, the other heroes of class 'S' could not even see him move, in addition to a blitzed in Tatsumaki.

 

[Dark649]

In the recent webcomic, Saitama has shown to be much faster than Flashy Flash.

 

[Dark649]

 

[Andytrenom]

I really don't like the idea of scaling someone to a Casual Saitama as if "Casual Saitama" is some kind of key that is around a specific power level. How much of his physical capabilities he shows is little more than a matter of whim and it's unreliable to say that Saitama had to have been moving at rel speeds here due to another showing of him being casually above rel speed attacks.

 

[Ryukama]

Hell no. I knew this was gonna happen though.

Both Saitama and Garou were not in the slightest trying against Flashy. The could (and eventually did) effortlessly blitz him the moment they felt like it. Scaling him to them is incredibly dubious.

Also there is no set "Casual Saitama". His power drastically varies based upon who he's fighting. Even the Saitama that fought Boros was a "Casual Saitama" because he was lying about "serious", which he's admitted multiple times now.

But no let's upgrade Human Choze cause he survived a casual Saitama punch!

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thanks for the input. Although for completions sake, what are your opinions on the GS section?

 

[USklaverei]

I think the Flashy case was different, since he was also able to fight two Sub-Relativistic+ and still not use his full speed.

 

[Ryukama]

I think the Flashy case was different, since he was also able to fight two Sub-Relativistic+ and still not use his full speed.

That doesn't prove he's now suddenly on par with or should scale to people who've casually blitzed him.

 

[Andytrenom]

Wasn't the sub rel+ calc supposed to be downgraded a while ago?

 

[Ryukama]

Thanks for the input. Although for completions sake, what are your opinions on the GS section?

There's nothing to really say. It's just a "who should be above him" without any elaboration or real reason why he should. I agree Golden Sperm is much stronger than him but nothing suggests he's as fast as this one specific attack.

 

[USklaverei]

But I did not say that he is suddenly equal, I agree that he is less than Saitama casual, I even said so in my coment, so the possibly Relativistic.

 

[Ryukama]

"Saitama casual" isn't a set power level. Saitama is always casual. Especially against humans and especially when he doesn't even think this is an actual fight rather some little game. Flashy keeping up with a "casual Saitama" isn't a speed bump for him just like Human Choze surviving a punch from "casual Saitama" isn't a durability bump for him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wasn't the sub rel+ calc supposed to be downgraded a while ago?

Assualt was supposed to make a CRT on it but never did to my understanding. But the one currently used was deemed incorrect due to relying on the detonation velocity of a explosion rather than the impact velocity of the ninjas.

I agree Golden Sperm is much stronger than him but nothing suggests he's as fast as this one specific attack.

I do agree that he shouldn't scale to the space octopus. But what are your thoughts on scaling him to Tornado?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wait I was wrong, he did make the thread it was just inactive

 

[USklaverei]

But how.
Flashy Flash without using all his speed is superior to two Sub-Relativistic +, he had much more work with Saitama than with Gale and Flame.

two Sub-relativist + are less than a Saitama.

Saitama should be at speeds close to the Relativistic, at least it would be a possibility.

 

[Ryukama]

Also this whole "he kept up with him" makes no sense in the first place. Here's how the fight went down.

• Saitama throws a fake punch in front of Flashy that he wasn't able to react to.

• After Flashy sees the fist in his face he moves and does his afterimage technique.

• Flashy starts throwing combos at Saitama who's just standing there.

• Flashy starts running around, and despite Saitama giving Flashy a head start he instantly catches up to him.

• After Saitama grabs his cape Flashy runs off and hides.

• Then Flashy attempts to attack Saitama while his back is turned, yet Saitama not only reacts but blocks the sword with his teeth faster than Flashy was able to see.

• Flashy starts desperately throwing shuriken at Saitama as he's coming towards him, which Saitama casually dodges.

• Flashy hits a Saitama that isn't fighting back some more.

• Flashy tries to sneak behind Saitama, yet caught afterimagine while the real Saitama already snuck behind Flashy.

• Saitama chases him a little bit more until Flashy hits a rock wall.

I mean even this "casual Saitama" Flashy was not able to at all keep up with. He was constantly getting blitzed and never actually dodged or kept pace with.

 

[Ryukama]

I do agree that he shouldn't scale to the space octopus. But what are your thoughts on scaling him to Tornado?

I think a possibly sure. According to the person who translated ONE's statement it implies Golden Sperm would give medium difficulty, and he's implied by Murata to be on par with Orochi, who's also been implied to be on par with Tatsu. I'm not sure.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So since four mods are against the Flash stuff, the scaling seems to be rejected.


Now as a secondary thing, should GS get a "At least Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic" rating or should we just wait for the manga to cover some more Orochi stuff before we do anything with him?

 

[Damage3245]

It would probably be better to wait for the manga to catch up to that section.

 

[Kirby71]

Ryukama is right, Saitama was too casual here, also, as Saitama is always casual, we can't have a "fixed power" for casual Saitama, OPM is a series where the bald guy has an easy fight, It a really really easy fight, Who knows, we don't know how casual Saitama was here, but we can't assume Saitama was relativistic speed mode, even garou, Who is slower than Saitama by a giant amount, had flash as a joke, not even trying.

Bald power!

 

[Xulrev]

Somewhat late to the party, simply want to put another perspective on this:

If your scaling for Character X relies on scaling from Character Y, someone being casual to the point of not caring/trying, and you're attempting to equate that in a 1-to-1 manner with Character Y also being able to quite easily stomp Character Z (given the fact of Character Z>Character X in speed), you're not going to have a good time with your scaling.

Quite simply, Y is casually above Z in speed who is quite absurdly above X in speed. Simply because X was able to dodge non-chalant blows from Y does not make them scale to Y; it means that Y objectively is far and away superior to X, and even if this showing included a singular instance of X dodging a semi-serious attack of Y's, it would qualify as an absurd outlier due to the factual evidence precedence we already have proven (Y>Z>X in speed).

It's for this reason that people should rarely, if ever, try to scale weak characters to massively superior characters who aren't trying, and instead stick to simple, easy-to-follow 1-to-1 scaling comparisons and Transitive Scaling(If Y>Z, and Z>X, Y>X).

 

[Andytrenom]

I may regret asking this but...why exactly is it that Boros scaling to Relativistic is fine when scaling anyone to Saitama doesn't seem to be a good idea, considering that he's casually above everyone else. Initially, I believed he could just scale off of being superior to Geryu but now it seems that this reasoning doesn't really hold up when talking about other characters so I'm not sure anymore.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

I think there's too many variables in the arguments they're making.

But Boros and Garou should scale off of Geryuganshoop for sure.

Golden Seishi should scale to Tatsumaki only. Murata made it to a point to say the speed that Geryuganshoop can launch his attacks are something unique to him and something Tatsumaki cannot do herself.

still iffy on Flash.

 

[Ryukama]

@Andy Because Saitama explicitly says Boros was the best fight/opponent he's ever had after just being finished zero-diffing Gery. And that Saitama was "going serious" (of course not really but this obviously means he's putting in way more than normal), had no qualms with killing Boros and yet they were exchanging blows back and forth.

 

[Ryukama]

No but considering that Saitama views this his best battle and greatest opponent I think it's fair to say he's using a greater amount of speed than he did against the guy he thought literally nothing of.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I think I recall Flashy Flash was supposed to be downgraded.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If it counts, Meteoric Burst Boros and Awakened Garou have both gotten a "!" expression from Saitama due to their speed, when that hasn't happened with anyone else afaik.

 

[Muuuuh]

No reason for the upgrade, Saitama was extremely casual, we do not know how much. Saitama is not relativistic in all casual movements, he is not relativistic when eating breakfast or going shopping. There is not much basis for this streamlining unless Saitama says that Flashy is one of the fastest that he faced or that is more serious than normal, something like that.

 

[The4Godlike]

We will get a clear speed for Flashy Flash when he encounters Monster Garou in the manga.

And that is probably one year later or something like that.

In webcomic he says he doesnt have time for Forbidden Techniques. I wonder what that is.

 

[Ryukama]

If that's the reason for saying Saitama is putting in more effort, isn't the argument kinda redundant? Considering you already used the justification of Boros being Saitama's strongest opponent as a reason for scaling.

What? No.

Since Saitama viewed Boros as his strongest opponent and the best fight moments after fighting Gery, who he viewed as "nothing" and a "bad joke", it's safe to say Boros was not only faster but Saitama was also using more speed against him. Nothing redundant about that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They also have stuff like this or this that imply they surprised Saitama unlike with Geryuganshoop

 

[Kirby71]

Yes, and Saitama was just like "ok" at flashy.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Flashy Flash only kept up with a weaker form of Garou; so he's indeed the 3rd strongest S Class Hero next to Tatsumaki and Blast, but he's still fodder compared to Garou's ultimate form that effortlessly stomped him.

 

[The4Godlike]

Why do you think Flash is weaker than Tatsumaki?

 

[Muuuuh]

Why do you think Flash is weaker than Tatsumaki?

Cause he can't touch in her

 

[The4Godlike]

How do you know that? If you say that from their tiers in this site,ok. Otherwise in the upcoming chapters when Flash encounters Garou, his tier will rank up for sure. Just wait for redraw.