One punch man: Ninjas Speed revision and Key Additions

[ZillertheBucko]

Basically
1. Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame's monster forms are faster than light, downscaling from Flashy Flash' speed
2. Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame's post MA arc key should scale directly to Flashy Flash
3. Substitution Jutsu
4. Flashy Flash should get a post MA arc key
5. Flashy Fist and Flashy Slash should also be acknowledged on the profile
6. Boros scales above Saitama


1: Flashy Flash claims that he was looking for an opportunity to finish both ninjas off at once the whole time, because he thought that one would be able to get away if the other was killed first. Gale and Hellfire were even fast enough to where Flashy was worried that they'd be able to take any of the other S class

even though he already directly witnessed stuff like atomic slash directly

additionally, Flashy specifically needed to use flashy flash, but I'll get to that later

addressing the fight itself, Gale and Hellfire weren't really blitzed, Flashy is faster yeah, but he just got them into a good position to kick, which stunned them, but they were stilll fully capable of thinking between his attacks:

First, gale and hellfire are in midair and right next to each other, leaving them in a spot where they'd really have trouble avoiding attacks
then flashy surprises them with a sudden flashy kicks, leaving them stunned
then he quickly bounces over to the wall while they are still stunned, but they are still able to think/talk, meaning they have not been blitzed at any point. This is why it's still consistent to downscale Gale and Hellfire from flashy.
and one more thing, Flashy brings up their technique, rather than their speed often, which is weird considering that if he could just easily blitz them, it would be kinda pointless to brag about skill

so here's the justification

At most FTL (Was fast enough to where flashy was forced to use an ultimate technique on both ninjas at once, or else he thought one would escape. Flashy Flash implied that their skill was why they lost, and not their physical speed. Flashy Flash also stated that their best strategy would be to fight any hero except him, even after witnessing the atomic slash.)


2. Because of the above mentioned stuff, it shouldn't be a problem to scale their post MA arc selves to flashy, as they have trained and were confident that they could take him, even after he outsped their monster forms
also it's kinda implied that they can't monsterize anymore, so this applies to their base

pretty simple stuff here

3. Illusion creation

self explanatory

4. Flashy Flash trained and got stronger, add a post MA arc key for him so we can cut off any circular scaling

5. Just give flashy flash "higher with flashy slash and flashy fist"
Both are blatantly stated as being ultimate techniques, so it's most likely just his fastest moves

rather self explanatory as well.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Forgot to mention, but flashy flash being faster with flashy slash is consistent with the fact that sonic, a fellow ninja, gets a speed amp with tenfold funeral for some reason just by moving faster, so flashy slash being a speed amp makes about the same amount of sense

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I agree with the proposals

 

[karo_senpaii]

Basically
1. Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame's monster forms are faster than light, downscaling from Flashy Flash' speed
2. Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame's post MA arc key should scale directly to Flashy Flash
3. Substitution Jutsu
4. Flashy Flash should get a post MA arc key
5. Flashy Fist and Flashy Slash should also be acknowledged on the profile
6. Boros scales above Saitama


1: Flashy Flash claims that he was looking for an opportunity to finish both ninjas off at once the whole time, because he thought that one would be able to get away if the other was killed first. Gale and Hellfire were even fast enough to where Flashy was worried that they'd be able to take any of the other S class

even though he already directly witnessed stuff like atomic slash directly

additionally, Flashy specifically needed to use flashy flash, but I'll get to that later

addressing the fight itself, Gale and Hellfire weren't really blitzed, Flashy is faster yeah, but he just got them into a good position to kick, which stunned them, but they were stilll fully capable of thinking between his attacks:

First, gale and hellfire are in midair and right next to each other, leaving them in a spot where they'd really have trouble avoiding attacks
then flashy surprises them with a sudden flashy kicks, leaving them stunned
then he quickly bounces over to the wall while they are still stunned, but they are still able to think/talk, meaning they have not been blitzed at any point. This is why it's still consistent to downscale Gale and Hellfire from flashy.
and one more thing, Flashy brings up their technique, rather than their speed often, which is weird considering that if he could just easily blitz them, it would be kinda pointless to brag about skill

so here's the justification

At most FTL (Was fast enough to where flashy was forced to use an ultimate technique on both ninjas at once, or else he thought one would escape. Flashy Flash implied that their skill was why they lost, and not their physical speed. Flashy Flash also stated that their best strategy would be to fight any hero except him, even after witnessing the atomic slash.)


2. Because of the above mentioned stuff, it shouldn't be a problem to scale their post MA arc selves to flashy, as they have trained and were confident that they could take him, even after he outsped their monster forms
also it's kinda implied that they can't monsterize anymore, so this applies to their base

pretty simple stuff here

3. Illusion creation

self explanatory

4. Flashy Flash trained and got stronger, add a post MA arc key for him so we can cut off any circular scaling

5. Just give flashy flash "higher with flashy slash and flashy fist"
Both are blatantly stated as being ultimate techniques, so it's most likely just his fastest moves

rather self explanatory as well.

I just keep wondering shouldn't sonic scale to the duo in speed? He was pretty confident on taking the two of them on again even while after seeing the fight with flashy flash. Sonic stuck at mhs+ really sucks. If he doesn't scale he would literally look frozen while they move

 

[ZillertheBucko]

We’ll get to that once he actually gets feats for it
at the moment sonic doesn’t actually have any grounds for reliable confidence scaling or anything since he hasn’t dealt with current flashy or gale wind or hellfire flame
it’s just gonna be like a dozen chapters at most before we see sonic have more direct feats for it

 

[karo_senpaii]

We’ll get to that once he actually gets feats for it
at the moment sonic doesn’t actually have any grounds for reliable confidence scaling or anything since he hasn’t dealt with current flashy or gale wind or hellfire flame
it’s just gonna be like a dozen chapters at most before we see sonic have more direct feats for it

I guess that's fair. And yes I think in this arc we'd get sonic scalling

 

[Epiccheev]

Another Boros W
Agree FRA

 

[ImposingTiger]

Absolutely agree

 

[Coomandar]

I just keep wondering shouldn't sonic scale to the duo in speed? He was pretty confident on taking the two of them on again even while after seeing the fight with flashy flash. Sonic stuck at mhs+ really sucks. If he doesn't scale he would literally look frozen while they move

the compatibility system will downscale tatsumaki to the ninja duo, at least to the point where she can react and defeat them. And so does sonic downscale to her

but this is another crt




anyway, i agree FRA

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Agree with everything, pretty clear cut and obvious.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Personally speaking before any upgrade or change is put in place I say we wait until the arc is finished like with the CF Garou stuff. Otherwise it'll take multiple CRTs to do minor stuff rather than just one with major stuff.

 

[Coomandar]

Personally speaking before any upgrade or change is put in place I say we wait until the arc is finished like with the CF Garou stuff. Otherwise it'll take multiple CRTs to do minor stuff rather than just one with major stuff.

but this is a crt for an old arc

 

[Qawsedf234]

but this is a crt for an old arc

It's a CRT of the newest arc and of the MA arc. Considering any scaling will effect all the current scaling I say just gold off on it.

 

[Coomandar]

It's a CRT of the newest arc and of the MA arc. Considering any scaling will effect all the current scaling I say just gold off on it.

i dont think that fixing their monster key would cause a bad effect to the current scaling

also, it’s a separated key, what happened is already settled.

 

[Qawsedf234]

i dont think that fixing their monster key would causa a bad effect to the current scaling

But it would, because the OP is saying their current form scales to their monster form and by proxy every ninja will scale to that.

If its just the MA arc it's one thing but if you're including current stuff it's a bad idea in my view.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Personally speaking before any upgrade or change is put in place I say we wait until the arc is finished like with the CF Garou stuff. Otherwise it'll take multiple CRTs to do minor stuff rather than just one with major stuff.

None of this is going to change, if they get new feats then their MA arc keys will stay the same, and their new keys are just going to get a tier change. Flashy Slash and Flashy Fist are not going to change, and ONE isn't gonna suddenly retcon their substitution ability out of existence.
To be blunt, this has no reason at all to be postponed. None.

 

[Qawsedf234]

To be blunt, this has no reason at all to be postponed. None.

It has reasons to be postponed for the same reason we postponed late stage MA revisions or revisions when arcs are still on going due to scaling snowballing.

ONE isn't gonna suddenly retcon their substitution ability out of existence.

I mean, you really can't say that. Because he has completely retconed abilities before.

 

[Damage3245]

Just want to say that Flashy Flash thinking the other S-Class heroes may have trouble with the ninja's speed doesn't mean he's comparing them to the Atomic Slash necessarily. The other S-Class heroes are a lot slower than Atomic Samurai's attack speed, and Atomic Samurai's attack speed won't necessarily help him if ninjas ambushed him

 

[ZillertheBucko]

But it would, because the OP is saying their current form scales to their monster form and by proxy every ninja will scale to that.

If its just the MA arc it's one thing but if you're including current stuff it's a bad idea in my view.

the only ones who scale to it right now are literally gale wind, hellfire flame, and a buncha characters with no profile
and as it turns out, the changes are for gale wind and hellfire flame, and not the characters that have no profile
the crt exists now, so there is no reason at all to pause it outside of just making things take longer because "the council of staff have decided we feel like it "
the entire ninja arc is gonna take like at least a month from now to finish, just keep the damn profiles up to date.

It has reasons to be postponed for the same reason we postponed late stage MA revisions or revisions when arcs are still on going due to scaling snowballing.

Didn't we literally update saitama and garou with extreme fa jin calcs and the ocean water serious punch feats like moments after it happened?
There is no practical reason not to just have crts to keep things up to date. Let people do things instead of being bored for a whole arc,

These changes aren't even major, the arguably biggest ones are literally for a fight that was 100 chapters ago from now, and the rest of them are just adding new keys, something that we are guaranteed to do regardless.
This is not something to wait until an arc is over for, this is routine profile maintenance.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Didn't we literally update saitama and garou with extreme fa jin calcs and the ocean water serious punch feats like moments after it happened?

Those calcs also had to be altered almost immediately after because of redrawn and all future revisions were put on hold because of scaling and new stuff.

These changes aren't even major, the arguably biggest ones are literally for a fight that was 100 chapters ago from now,

I'm fine with 1 & 5 going through. I just think 2-4 should wait until the arc is concluded.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

better yet, we should just stop waiting to do stuff like this in general and just continue keeping the profiles up to date rather than being one of the weird and only verses that just decided "hey we should stop people from making crts and force them to wait a few more weeks because we feel like it"
I mean I get that it's really because "stuff could change really soon after" but then we just make more crts. It's a hobby, making crts is basically just engagement and I don't really see why people should care that much that we're just engaging with it more.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I agree!

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Just want to say that Flashy Flash thinking the other S-Class heroes may have trouble with the ninja's speed doesn't mean he's comparing them to the Atomic Slash necessarily. The other S-Class heroes are a lot slower than Atomic Samurai's attack speed, and Atomic Samurai's attack speed won't necessarily help him if ninjas ambushed him

Well that's just supporting evidence, since one could argue that if atomic slash was much faster then he'd be able to contest their speed with his analytical prediction and instinct alone, though if it was my only point, then yes, I wouldn't attempt to directly upscale Gale and Flame from the atomic slash
admittedly though, that's just laying the groundwork there for future revisions as well.

 

[Damage3245]

better yet, we should just stop waiting to do stuff like this in general and just continue keeping the profiles up to date rather than being one of the weird and only verses that just decided "hey we should stop people from making crts and force them to wait a few more weeks because we feel like it"

This is far from the only verse to get this kind of treatment. A lot of series have done the "Let's wait till the arc is over before major revisions".

 

[Qawsedf234]

, I wouldn't attempt to directly upscale Gale and Flame from the atomic slash

To me the proof would be this scan where Flashy says he wanted to kill both of them at once so they couldn't escape. Which is implying he might struggle catching the other (probably stealth + speed) if he just killed one and the other dipped rather than try and leapfrog to AS.

Basically just Them -> Flashy -> PS -> GS -> AS

Rather than an assumption of them -> AS.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Like I said, it’s just support, I’m not actually trying to put ninjas > atomic slash as a part of their scaling chains, so the OP was misleading
they’re just downscaling from flashy, yeah, since they’re inferior in speed but still fast enough to threaten escape and essentially force him to use an ultimate technique.

 

[Coomandar]

Just want to say that Flashy Flash thinking the other S-Class heroes may have trouble with the ninja's speed doesn't mean he's comparing them to the Atomic Slash necessarily. The other S-Class heroes are a lot slower than Atomic Samurai's attack speed, and Atomic Samurai's attack speed won't necessarily help him if ninjas ambushed him

well, when you guys finally decide to accept that AS has ftl reactions, this will be no longer an issue.

 

[Coomandar]

These changes aren't even major, the arguably biggest ones are literally for a fight that was 100 chapters ago from now

exactly, theres no way to compare it with garou vs saitama situation.

 

[Epiccheev]

Honestly it doesn't make sense to assume AS's arms can move thousands of times faster than his own perception and still perform precise slashes.

 

[Coomandar]

Honestly it doesn't make sense to assume AS's arms can move thousands of times faster than his own perception and still perform precise slashes.

nothing in AS’s profile makes sense tbh lol

 

[Qawsedf234]

nothing in AS’ profile makes sense tbh lol

AS just sucks. If he was consistently fast like Flashy it would be fine. But he struggles against BS and making him any faster would result in his feat becoming an outlier again.

 

[Coomandar]

AS just sucks. If he was consistently fast like Flashy it would be fine. But he struggles against BS and making him any faster would result in his feat becoming an outlier again.

ignoring the fact that BS already dodged a direct attack from AS’s coming from a blind spot, AS even called him nimble. This would already put BS above g5, who Atomic called a loser.

because, if you consider this, black sperm with a undetermined amount of cells would be already ftl.


and again, this wouldn’t mess the scaling, just good news for the verse

 

[ZillertheBucko]

To be fair I do consider atomic slash to be greater than his reactions, even given that he should have rela reactions
I think it’s kinda cool to think that he has enough skill to where he doesn’t even need to see his attacks to know how he’s doing in the fight, and just purely trains his slashing speed
But also there’s only a handful of characters who would even be able to keep up with atomic slash’s speed, since Golden Sperm is one of the fastest in the verse too, so he can kinda attack speed blitz plenty of characters

Anyways the relativistic atomic samurai stuff will come at a later date, so hopefully this will be the last post about him in this thread

 

[Coomandar]

i don’t see why you guys wants to keep that “consistency” in the verse even thought it’s totally illogical. What’s wrong with the dragons being ftl?

 

[Qawsedf234]

ignoring the fact that BS already dodged a direct attack from AS’s coming from a blind spot,

Ignoring the fact that everyone from Iaian to Genos has killed BS bodies you're proposing a universal FTL upgrade which isn't happening because it's nonsensical.

and again, this wouldn’t mess the scaling

It would.

 

[Damage3245]

Honestly it doesn't make sense to assume AS's arms can move thousands of times faster than his own perception and still perform precise slashes.

Atomic Samurai can cut Black Sperms thousands of times in an instant yet still get hit with attacks from Black Sperm. Atomic Samurai's attack speed is just a lot faster than the rest of him. It's his whole gimmick essentially.

 

[Coomandar]

Ignoring the fact that everyone from Iaian to Genos has killed BS bodies you're proposing a universal FTL upgrade which isn't happening because it's nonsensical.

nonsensical because? am i really reading this from a website where we’ve got 5-b sakura?

and yes, i’d suggest an universal revamp.

 

[Coomandar]

Ignoring the fact that everyone from Iaian to Genos has killed BS bodies you're proposing a universal FTL upgrade which isn't happening because it's nonsensical.


It would.

also, another note: black sperm’s speed varies, just like his strenght.

its kinda easy to add this to his profile and theres nothing contradictory on it.

But im out, dont wanna spoil ziller’s crt

 

[Damage3245]

nonsensical because? am i really reading this from a website where we’ve got 5-b sakura?

and yes, i’d suggest an universal revamp.

Go downgrade Sakura if you disagree with her ratings. No point bringing up other verses in this thread.

 

[Qawsedf234]

nonsensical because?

I explained why.

we’ve got 5-b sakura?

We have High 1-A Thor. But those are different universes with different justifications. OPM has its own and everyone scaling to a character who blitzes everyone else is nonsensical.