Fire Force 3-A Adolla CRT

[Sonoftanavast9]

I'll try to make this as straight forward as possible. This thread is to propose an upgrade of ShinraBansho man and the evangelist based solely off their scaling to and relationship with "Adolla". This is based purely off Adolla itself and no inferred ratings from dimensional scaling etc.
In this thread I will do only 2 things

• Present the dimension of adolla as 3-A(Universal Level)
• Present Why Shinra Bansho Man and the Evangelist scale to it

Adolla
During the final arc of Fire Force the dimension of "Adolla" begins merging with the normal world causing the cataclysm. The scale of this event is often thought of as not given by a lot of people but with context from the manga it's clear that Adolla is merging with the universe itself

Specifically Jiovanni(someone who studied adolla and actually made himself closer to it) mentions that in terms of scale the cataclysm is happening to the "Universe"(Chapter 234). This is important because literally goes out of his way to clarify that he means "Universe" and in context he is specifically by his own admission speaking in terms of "Scale".

This on it's own simply means adolla's merger with the "World" is in fact happening to the "Universe" meaning adolla itself is as large as the universe itself. This is also supported by the previous cataclysms attempts having

• Altered the physics of the world(which we now know in context of giovannis statement refers to "Universe")
• Changed the structure of the "World": An effect which altered the world of fire force to such a degree that it changed from full on like IRL/Live action to anime artsyle as whole( something which is clearly universal)

Who Scales to this:
The Evangelist/Haumea: The evangelist would undoubtably scale Adolla itself being 3-A and being capable of affecting a whole universe for the simple reason that The Evangelist is Adolla itself. We get the context for this from 2 through lines:

• Adolla as the Collective Unconsciousness: Adolla is referred to very clearly as the "Collective unconsciousness" and the Evangelist is stated to be "the entire collective unconsciousness" by Sho.
• Adolla as Despair: The "Despair" is said to be what is trying to fuse with the world by sho(meaning it is adolla) and the evangelist's true form is said to be that despair but also when separated from haumea the evangelist is referred to as "All that despair".

It is very much apparent that the Evangelist=Adolla as the Evangelist is adolla itself.

Shinrabansho Man: This part is very simple as it's already accepted(and even already on his profile) that Shinra bansho man destroyed "The Despair" which in the context of the information above is the entirety of adolla itself.

Agree: @Maitreya, @Lormac_CC (Possibly 3-A), @Zexer1 , @Excel616 , @Alexander ,@Arkenis ,@CurrySenpai , @eliaspower1234 (Possibly 3-A), @Lynieryz , @ObberGobb , @EndlessCalamity (Possibly Low 2-C), @Null

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

if its two dimensions merging wouldnt it be baseline 2-C

 

[PrinceofPein]

Specifically Jiovanni(someone who studied adolla and actually made himself closer to it) mentions that in terms of scale the cataclysm is happening to the "Universe"(Chapter 234). This is important because literally goes out of his way to clarify that he means "Universe" and in context he is specifically by his own admission speaking in terms of "Scale".

There is something called flowery language, Jiovanni here is an example of one, this is not a solid statement

This on it's own simply means adolla's merger with the "World" is in fact happening to the "Universe" meaning adolla itself is as large as the universe itself. This is also supported by the previous cataclysms attempts having

• Altered the physics of the world(which we now know in context of giovannis statement refers to "Universe")

No it does not, where are you seeing that exactly?

• Changed the structure of the "World": An effect which altered the world of fire force to such a degree that it changed from full on like IRL/Live action to anime artsyle as whole( something which is clearly universal)

How does reality warping life on earth become a universe thing? are there proof of life elsewhere?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

There is something called flowery language, Jiovanni here is an example of one, this is not a solid statement

He explicitly says universe in clarification after just "World" which is vague on it's own but is more clear with the added statement and he is literally specifically talking in terms of scale.

If he just said "World" and I automatically assumed he meant universe then maybe but that's not the case. You have literally provided NO reason for why we should assume it's flowery language or why it's not a "Solid statement"... Literally no reason behind your assumption.

You can't just say what amounts to "Flowery language exists so the statement is flowery language and isn't solid" without giving any justification for why you want to assume it is flowery language or What makes it not solid.

No it does not, where are you seeing that exactly?

I'm obviously talking in context of his prior statement

How does reality warping life on earth become a universe thing? are there proof of life elsewhere?

It doesn't just affect life which is obviously the case as literally everything else in the past (buildings etc) are all rendered in live action and all have a grainy filter like aesthetic to it all(which is just what is generally used to render the live action type parts of the series) which is never present anywhere else even when we see the sun, the stars etc.

There is no reason to assume it's just life. Shinra specifically talks to Arthur about the humans cause they were the most apparent

 

[PrinceofPein]

He explicitly says universe in clarification after just "World" which is vague on it's own but is more clear with the added statement and he is literally specifically talking in terms of scale.

No he was not clarifying anything.
As it will be with this world, as it will be with the universe.
That is flowery not clarification

If he just said "World" and I automatically assumed he meant universe then maybe but that's not the case. You have literally provided NO reason for why we should assume it's flowery language or why it's not a "Solid statement"... Literally no reason behind your assumption.

Cause that is an example of a flowery statement

You can't just say what amounts to "Flowery language exists so the statement is flowery language and isn't solid" without giving any justification for why you want to assume it is flowery language or What makes it not solid.

Flowery statements are determined by you know what was said,

It doesn't just affect life which is obviously the case as literally everything else in the past buildings etc are all rendered in live action and all have a grainy filter like aesthetic to it all which is never present anywhere else even when we see the sun the stars etc.

There is no reason to assume it's just life. shinra just specifically talks to arthur about the humans cause they were the most apparent

Not just life, anything that has do with earth, since adolla was only shown to engulf the planet, where are you seeing your own claims

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

No he was not clarifying anything.

He is literally adding to his originally more vague statement

As it will be with this world, as it will be with the universe.
That is flowery not clarification

How there is literally no reason to assume so. You are literally just going back to square one of "It's flowery language for .... no reasons given" also here is the statement given in Japanese and a more accurate translation where he goes ahead and actually says "And"(In some other translation I've seen it says "Universe too") meaning it is obviously meant as an addition/clarification.

Cause that is an example of a flowery statement

Again you are failing to provide a reason.

Your just saying what amount to "It is because I say it is"

Flowery statements are determined by you know what was said,

Genuinely confused on what you mean here???

Not just life, anything that has do with earth, since adolla was only shown to engulf the planet, where are you seeing your own claims

We have literally seen it warp the stars.... Why would we assume it is only engulfs the earth with literally no outright statement saying so, we know a previous cataclysm created the sun so this is also a knock against this random assumption and we know it warps stars beyond even the earths moon...

 

[Deceived3596]

Following

 

[Cyberblader90]

this is also stated by dragon

 

[PrinceofPein]

have literally seen it warp the stars.... Why would we assume it is only engulfs the earth with literally no outright statement saying so, we know a previous cataclysm created the sun so this is also a knock against this random assumption and we know it warps stars beyond even the earths moon...

That was what we were shown literally
Engulfs earth

Scan

Get this officially translated not MLT. I'd trust viz not you.
Again
As it will be with this world, as it will be with the universe.

Is extremely flowery

this is also stated by dragon

I mean can't argue with such a solid statement not flowery at all

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

That was what we were shown literally
Engulfs earth

Even prior to the full cataclysm we literally see it warp stars which are beyond the earths moon. This is still undisputed by you and we also know for a fact that the normal sun was created by and even more prior cataclysm which again is still undisputed by you

Get this officially translated not MLT. I'd trust viz not you.
Again
As it will be with this world, as it will be with the universe.

Is extremely flowery

You again provide no reason as to why it is flowery. You can't just say a statement is flowery with no reason when the statement is extremely cut and dry.

Also fire force isn't translated by or even on Viz.... so what the hell do they have to do with anything

Just as insects fly toward flames.
Mankind marches towards death and destruction.
The only difference between the two is a matter of scale.
As it will be with this world. As it will be with this universe.

There's literally no indication of it being flowery language in that he doesn't mean it is going to affect the universe when he expressly goes out of his way to say so.

The first 2 sentences are setting up for comparing humans to bugs in that they both go towards their destruction and then the later 2 are clarifying the specific difference is in scale in relation to the events about to transpire.

I don't see why this would be considered flowery language when It's so clearly reads as literal and you are yet to provide a reason.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i dont think the effects of adolla extending to space is flowerily with alot of statements for it

 

[Maitreya12]

Yeah I agree. Adolla is widely consistent to be a complete alteration of all of reality and physics across the entire universe.

-We directly witness it alter the stars and moon in the night sky.

-We have a clear statement of Adolla impacting the universe

-We are literally informed that reality was simply our 3D selves, until Adolla turned it all into a 2D anime.

I think that’s very clear.

 

[Makai641001]

Yeah I agree. Adolla is widely consistent to be a complete alteration of all of reality and physics across the entire universe.

I don’t think We should assume it’s range Is universal

We should take it’s visible range into account

Also it’s warping Is due to the human perception and Is solely related to how they perceive things

-We directly witness it alter the stars and moon in the night sky.

And the moon Is factually altered in the eyes of the characters

-We have a clear statement of Adolla impacting the universe

To What degree? Using what?
Could you send me the raws

-We are literally informed that reality was simply our 3D selves, until Adolla turned it all into a 2D anime.

This works for the planet from what i remember we only see the old population as IRL

I think that’s very clear.

I don’t think it’s that clear

 

[Lormac_CC]

Agree with this. Nothing sounds flowery here

 

[Lormac_CC]

I don’t think We should assume it’s range Is universal

We should take it’s visible range into account

A good point. Well I still believe it should have possibly 3-A.

 

[Makai641001]

A good point. Well I still believe it should have possibly 3-A.

Idek if a possible should be added since reality seems to be warped only in the eyes of people With a range going to the moon and a few stars

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I don’t think We should assume it’s range Is universal

We should take it’s visible range into account

Also it’s warping Is due to the human perception and Is solely related to how they perceive things

The human perception is sent to Adolla itself, It is literally depicted as "The collective Unconsciousness"(which I already outline in the op). Adolla is the world of perception and is the place human perception goes to but the effects of the warping were specifically caused by adolla being brought closer(first time it is stated) but the specific way things end up looking like is where peoples perception comes into play

And the moon Is factually altered in the eyes of the characters

The moon was factually altered by adolla being brought closer(second time stated) but the design was based off the collective unconscious of the general populous

Essentially the actual reality warping is done by adolla being drawn closer but what things are warped into/ the specifics of the effect are based off general human perception because these perceptions go directly to adolla

To What degree? Using what?
Could you send me the raws

I posted the raws above already but here you go:

This works for the planet from what i remember we only see the old population as IRL

It's never once stated that it's only effecting the planet and if it was the myriad of times we saw space and beyond earth throughout the story would have used the same irl/3d style and the grainy overlay used to portray that in manga form but as we see repeatedly this is not the case.

 

[Makai641001]

The human perception is sent to Adolla itself, It is literally depicted as "The collective Unconsciousness"(which I already outline in the op). Adolla is the world of perception and is the place human perception goes to but the effects of the warping were specifically caused by adolla being brought closer but the specific way it looks is where peoples perception comes into play


The moon was factually altered by adolla being brought closer but the design was based off the collective unconscious of the general populous

Essentially the actual reality warping is done by adolla being closer but what things are warped into/ the specifics of the effect are based off general human perception because these things go to adolla

I posted the raws above already but here you go:

It's never once stated that it's only effecting the planet and if it was the myriad of times we saw space and beyond earth throughout the story would have used the same irl/3d style and the grainy overlay used to portray that in manga form but as we see repeatedly this is not the case.

The objects are warped only through the eyes of the people.

The translation is correct a few words can be translated otherwise but it keeps the same meaning

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

The objects are warped only through the eyes of the people.

It specifically says twice that the warping is caused by adolla being brought closer what the objects are warped into/ to look like are what the eyes of the people influence because as already stated "Human perception goes to adolla"

Everything I've said is backed up by the scans above

 

[PrinceofPein]

i dont think the effects of adolla extending to space is flowerily with alot of statements for it

Uhhhhm "let us decide the fates of the stars" is flowery.
Also bring all the other statements I'd wait.
Check the also the effects of adolla is majorly warping human perception of their surroundings nothing more.

our 3D selves, until Adolla turned it all into a 2D anime.

Lifelike to cartoon like.
Not 3D to 2D.

I don't see why this would be considered flowery language when It's so clearly reads as literal and you are yet to provide a reason.

As it will be with this world, as it will be with the universe

Flowery language occurs when elaborate words are substituted for simple ones and longer sentences are used to try to convey multiple ideas.

it uses too many complicated words or phrases in an attempt to sound skillful

"Just as insects fly toward flames.
Mankind marches towards death and destruction.
The only difference between the two is a matter of scale.
As it will be with this world. As it will be with this universe."

This is flowery but that aside we saw what adolla can do
It changes the people perception about their surrounding, not the surrounding it self, and more importantly we only saw it engulf earth.
Visual showing + concept of what it does >>>>> one or two flowery words.


It's not until I make a large ass post, explaining this. This is supposed to be at least straightforward

 

[Sisyphusx]

I agree

 

[Maitreya12]

Lifelike to cartoon like.
Not 3D to 2D.

That was literally from 3D to 2D. 3 dimensional beings transformed into 2 dimensional cartoonish beings.

As it will be with this world, as it will be with the universe




"Just as insects fly toward flames.
Mankind marches towards death and destruction.
The only difference between the two is a matter of scale.
As it will be with this world. As it will be with this universe."

This is flowery but that aside we saw what adolla can do

You simply stating this is flowery language does not prove this is flowery language. What multiple ideas are trying to be conveyed here with this statement? What elaborate words are being “switched out” instead of added upon since this seems like a very clear cut statement to me.

Everytbing will inevitably lead towards destruction, just akin to insects flying towards death. The fact that he specified the only difference here being scale and then proceeds to say the scale in which this will take place only further solidified this being a clear cut statement.

It changes the people perception about their surrounding, not the surrounding it self, and more importantly we only saw it engulf earth.
Visual showing + concept of what it does >>>>> one or two flowery words.

No, this is an incorrect view. It changes the environment based upon people’s perceptions of the world. Because Adolla is a manifestation of the human consciousness which can fundamentally alter reality. It does not only change the perception of people, it directly impacts the environment based upon people’s perceptions. We very clearly see this with both the stars and the moon. And how people being consumed by despair resulted in the earth being engulfed in black flames. How could this be possible if Adolla is only changing people perceptions and not the environment around them as well?

We have the visual showings (we see the stars of the night sky change). We have the statements (a clear statement indicating the whole universe will be impacted by Adolla. And we have the concepts being explained (Adolla being a manifestation of the human consciousness which fundamentally alters all of reality around them based upon the perceptions of people.)

It seems very clear with very substantial evidence in support of the claims

 

[Zoldyck59]

Following.

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

Following

 

[Excellence616]

Agree

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

As it will be with this world, as it will be with the universe

"Just as insects fly toward flames.
Mankind marches towards death and destruction.
The only difference between the two is a matter of scale.
As it will be with this world. As it will be with this universe."

Where is the "elaborate words are substituted for simple ones and longer sentences are used to try to convey multiple ideas." when the whole thing is extraordinarily simple to begin with and conveys only one clear cut idea
"That humans are like insects in that they go towards their destruction but the difference between the 2 is in scale due to the events about to conspire"- This is conveyed in the most literal sense possible by his statements without any elaborate word substituting any single word or an attempt to convey multiple ideas

Where is the "uses too many complicated words or phrases in an attempt to sound skillful" when this whole thing is extraordinarily short and lacks any such complexity.

You are literally just defining flowery language without ever even attempting to point out where the definition you present shows itself in the phrase or how it is applicable. This is literally back to square one, You are just pointing out something exists without ever once even being able to point out how it applies to the statement in question itself

it changes the people perception about their surrounding, not the surrounding it self, and more importantly we only saw it engulf earth.
Visual showing + concept of what it does >>>>> one or two flowery words.

NO, Adolla changes the world itself and this is outright stated.

The manga goes out of it's way to present use with a clear cut explanation of Adolla drawing closer being what causes the changes but that the human perception is what determines what the changes are.

This is made explicitly clear by statements from Hibana as she literally says twice that adolla being drawn closer is what causes the changes, that what the changes end up specifically being is based of human perception and that this is because adolla is the culmination of human perception which is further added on by the fact that it is stated prior to this by the literal manga narration that human perception goes to adolla.

Right after Hibana starts worrying about the changes to the world Lich even literally says "It's perfectly clear to see this is the effect of the cataclysms"

Adolla doesn't change perception. Perception goes to adolla and determines what the changes adolla makes to the world are

Your keep saying it only engulfs earth but are yet to even attempt to address the fact that it has affected stars beyond earths moon already and that a prior cataclysm is what created the original sun.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Sigh, Long post it is addressing this nonsense.
Discussion rule at this point I am tired of doing this over and over again.
Cause tbh, I dont have time for things like this, if you guys have so much energy help fix the pages first, the pages are one of the worst on this wiki.

 

[Alexander]

Sigh, Long post it is addressing this nonsense.
Discussion rule at this point I am tired of doing this over and over again.
Cause tbh, I dont have time for things like this, if you guys have so much energy help fix the pages first, the pages are one of the worst on this wiki.

wait, now that I remember, you try to make a rule to avoid upgrades, and you end up losing.

 

[Alexander]

well this is fine and i accept it, i always knew that this was not flowery language, because, hell, even sho can manipulate time on a universal scale with the adolla burst, and giovanni knows about that.
why adolla,that is were the adolla burst comes from,be different?and also with the dragon stament, that's not flowery language either, because up to this point, those who destined the cataclysm, were dragon's despair and arthur's hope.
even victor say that the fight of arthur vs dragon will decided the cataclysm.

 

[PrinceofPein]

wait, now that I remember, you try to make a rule to avoid upgrades, and you end up losing.

At that time not enough of the thread has happened
Now I have two more, I ca assure you this is enough for a discussion rule

 

[Alexander]

At that time not enough of the thread has happened
Now I have two more, I ca assure you this is enough for a discussion rule

Well, more or less the same thing will happen, because they look at the context, and notice that you didn't give justifications for that and you only said that things were just because.
before it was acceptable that the series did not end, but later, it was simply saying that things are like that because yes

 

[Arkenis]

Typical fire force W. I agree inherently

 

[Arkenis]

Somewhat off topic, but Sho should have his range updated. (I cant do it rn)

 

[CurrySenpai]

Seems solid, I agree.

 

[Iiliminal]

Tending towards agreement with a “possibly 3-A” rating for god tiers. At least 5-B, possibly 3-A. how does that sound?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Tending towards agreement with a “possibly 3-A” rating for god tiers. At least 5-B, possibly 3-A. how does that sound?

Fair enough, I'll add that qualifier to your vote

 

[Alexander]

Wait, but which will be better, at least or possibly.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Wait, but which will be better, at least or possibly.

They mean that they think the addition should be "At least 5-B(Planetary), possibly 3-A(Universal)" not that it will be atleast or possibly 3-A itself

 

[Alexander]

They mean that they think the addition should be "At least 5-B(Planetary), possibly 3-A(Universal)" not that it will be atleast or possibly 3-A itself

ok

 

[Excellence616]

bump