Edelweiss coming for that spot baby.

[The_real_cal_howard]

Aight how are y’all eating this up? Seriously stop sucking Edel’s dick.
It’s a goddamn illusion. Anyone from Itachi to freaking Freddy Kreuger can make you see a quote on quote “true death”. Put her against like, Vegeta, she shows him a death, realizes it’s a mind trick (after reading her power level), and nukes her. If you can shrug off any half decent illusion, you should be fine, willingness to die or not.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Your evidence for this is?

Evidence is that even people with acausality who are otherwise unaffected by causation abilities (fate, precog etc, ya get the point) get f-ed over by edelweiss.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Put her against like, Vegeta, she shows him a death, realizes it’s a mind trick (after reading her power level), and nukes her. If you can shrug off any half decent illusion, you should be fine, willingness to die or not.

I quite literally made like 4 novels of text above with dragon to explain that.

Also if vegeta takes a step he's dead, just sayin.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

A wall of text that nobody would bother to read won’t change the argumentum ad verbosium.
I’ll repeat what I said. Even strong willpower won’t even be necessary. Be smart enough to realize it’s an illusion, or heck, be stupid enough to not care, and you can bullhead your way through. It’s not my fault Rakudai people arent smart enough to realize what they’re shown isn’t a certainty.

 

[Everything12]

Evidence is that even people with acausality who are otherwise unaffected by causation abilities (fate, precog etc, ya get the point) get f-ed over by edelweiss.

Such as?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Before someone brings up the “soul understand the terror” that’s so blatantly flowery language (you know, something super common in light novels) that it’s not even funny.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Such as?

Nene

 

[Overlord775]

I vote Duck for passive powernull and shadow magic istantly killing Edel

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I’ll repeat what I said. Even strong willpower won’t even be necessary.

It's not necessary, the mentality is.

Be smart enough to realize it’s an illusion

It's not about being smart, extraordinary geniuses are failing. And these guys do get affected by illusions and don't think it's their future. Starts to make you wonder doesn't it?

, or heck, be stupid enough to not care, and you can bullhead your way through.

Depending on the scenario you're thinking of that would actually apply.

It’s not my fault Rakudai people are dumbasses and believe what they’re shown is a certainty.

The same argument as Trackless Step, the "people in rakudai are flawed because we don't like accepting this working on other verses" smh.

I vote Duck for passive powernull

Debunked

shadow magic istantly killing Edel

Answered before.

 

[Overlord775]

nope, you didn't debunk anything, that was the fear hax

The Power Nullification is outright stated to passive in the profile and shadow magic has like 10ish applications that can instantly kill Edel like petrification

 

[Everything12]

Nene

When?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

“It's not about being smart, extraordinary geniuses are failing. And these guys do get affected by illusions and don't think it's their future. Starts to make you wonder doesn't it?”

Genius doesn’t translate to common sense or basic logic. Shizuku could be the smartest girl in fiction and still get tricked by the “shoes are untied” bit. And no, it doesn’t make me wonder. Not all illusions are created equally. Only one shows you outright dying as opposed to there being two of your opponent for example. Apparently Rakudai dudes don’t have the stomach for the former.

“The same argument as Trackless Step, the "people in rakudai are flawed because we don't like accepting this working on other verses" smh.”

YES. If they decide to ignore common sense and be subjected to it something by all human logic, they shouldn’t, then that 100% is a flaw on them. Not everything has to make your pet characters be as strong as humanly possible. That goes for all of you.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Zen, probably the only knowledgeable on Pirate, will comment soon.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

When?

When she fought Ikki, they got symptoms similar to Ikki when they were cities away.

 

[Overlord775]

also, William sold his soul to and was possessed by grandfather Spider

So, Edel's thing is definitelly not scaring him

 

[Firephoenixearl]

also, William sold his soul to and was possessed by grandfather Spider

So, Edel's thing is definitelly not scaring him

What's that gotta do with edel's desperado stuff my guy?

 

[Overlord775]

he ain't giving a shit about Edel showing him his death, which to point out would require blessed silver bullets and Edel visibly doesn't have guns

 

[Firephoenixearl]

he ain't giving a shit about Edel showing him his death,

Exactly, how did you come to this conclusion from the "sold his soul"?

which to point out would require blessed silver bullets and Edel visibly doesn't have guns

Visibly
From out of line of sight from 4KM away

Yes, i see ya.

 

[Overlord775]

Exactly, how did you come to this conclusion from the "sold his soul"?

did you even ****** watch the video ?

all the remains of him is an evil husk

 

[Overlord775]

also, line of sight is over 4 km and William has Enchances Senses, so he can see her

 

[Firephoenixearl]

also, line of sight is over 4 km and William has Enchances Senses, so he can see her

In plain view, not with objects around.

all the remains of him is an evil husk

Never saw this. Nor do i see what that has to do with countering Edelweiss.

 

[Overlord775]

In plain view, not with objects around.

they are in central park, there's not really a objects that would be in the way

Never saw this. Nor do i see what that has to do with countering Edelweiss.

watch the goddam video then i linked then

her thing is DEFINITELLY not working on a evil souless husk under the corruption of a Low 1-C abstract being

also, the only way to kill him is bullets blessed by gradmother Raven (the goddess of light of the setting), which since it's paracasual can't even show up in the fate

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Her thing isn’t working on him period, Overlord.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

they are in central park, there's not really a objects that would be in the way

U for real bruh?

watch the goddam video then i linked then

her thing is DEFINITELLY not working on a evil souless husk under the corruption of a Low 1-C abstract being

I did, never saw possession, it only said he sold his soul to get power, not that he got possessed or corrupted.

also, the only way to kill him is bullets blessed by gradmother Raven (the goddess of light of the setting), which since it's paracasual can't even show up in the fate

Nah, from the statement, just pure silver will do it.

Only one shows you outright dying as opposed to there being two of your opponent for example. Apparently Rakudai dudes don’t have the stomach for the former.

1 of them shows you dying, the other shows you winning. How come they believe the former is their fate but not the latter?

YES. If they decide to ignore common sense and be subjected to it something by all human logic

And we all know how that went when the debate actually happened.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

1 of them shows you dying, the other shows you winning. How come they believe the former is their fate but not the latter?

Pessimism, stupidity, could be a number of reasons. Doesn’t stop a spade from being called a spade.

And we all know how that went when the debate actually happened.

You and I both know that I’m fully willing to die on this hill and make that thread.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Pessimism, stupidity, could be a number of reasons. Doesn’t stop a spade from being called a spade.

You really are going to great lengths to not agree with something that is made pretty blatant aren't you? You danger sense telling you to run, seeing visions of your own death, your own fate trying to stop you from acting, the soul thing to the level where Stella herself didn't realize she was scared, i've got all of these on top of feats and you expect to go around with "stupidity" (which i already explained it isn't), freaking "pessimism"...u deadass dawg?

I am fully willing to make that thread.

We already did, several times. But i don't remember your arguments ever winning.

 

[Overlord775]

U for real bruh?

you do realize that's all folliage, which does't exed all the way down, while tree trunks aren't thick at all ad can easilly be seen past ?

I did, never saw possession, it only said he sold his soul to get power, not that he got possessed or corrupted.

You mean beside the fact he became a black demon with red eyes and that his true self died ?

Nah, from the statement, just pure silver will do it.

Nope, specifically blessed silver is needed

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You really are going to great lengths to not agree with something that is made pretty blatant aren't you? You danger sense telling you to run, seeing visions of your own death, your own fate trying to stop you from acting, the soul thing to the level where Stella herself didn't realize she was scared, i've got all of these on top of feats and you expect to go around with "stupidity" (which i already explained it isn't), freaking "pessimism"...u deadass dawg?

Yes. I’m deadass. Because by all accounts, this is either a) fear manipulation, which you disagree with, or b) an illusion. Nothing you say or however you word or spin it changes that. Nothing in the series is ever blatant because it’s filled with so much prose and flowery language that it makes Lewis Carroll’s nonsense poems blush. Stella was able to overcome it because she’d rather die than not get stronger? Are you kidding me? If that’s not an example of just being able to willpower your way through then I don’t know what is. Touka threw herself into several situations like that and didn’t have the willpower to get out of it. It makes you scared. Sure. But I’d be a monkey’s uncle before I believe it’s some fate based fear that impossible to bypass when it’s blatantly an illusion. Does it look like a duck? Does it sound like a duck? Then what is it? AFLAC.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Stella was able to overcome it because she’d rather die than not get stronger? Are you kidding me? If that’s not an example of just being able to willpower your way through then I don’t know what is.

Yes, because it's not that she willpowered through the fear of death, she just decided her life isn't worth anymore. There's a difference between willpower and throwing your life away.

Touka threw herself into several situations like that and didn’t have the willpower to get out of it. It makes you scared. Sure. But I’d be a monkey’s uncle before I believe it’s some fate based fear that impossible to bypass when it’s blatantly an illusion.

Never said impossible to bypass now did I?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

you do realize that's all folliage, which does't exed all the way down, while tree trunks aren't thick at all ad can easilly be seen past ?

You do realize we had a thread about this right?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yes, because it's not that she willpowered through the fear of death, she just decided her life isn't worth anymore. There's a difference between willpower and throwing your life away.

Yes. It’s exactly that. They’re all but one in the same. Virtually no difference.

Never said impossible to bypass now did I?

You’ve all but implied it multiple times with your “you gotta be 4D or higher or have super acasuality or you lose! See! It’s not an NLF! Because it gets beat by literally nothing short of the best!”

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes. It’s exactly that. They’re all but one in the same. Virtually no difference.

It's about how much you value your life. Again, why would you ever take a match you know you will lose? Oh is it because (like Stella) you have the chance to get strong enough to solve a big issue that will save millions of people therefore you're fine with throwing away your life if you fair? You're gucci. Just going in like you're in a "match to the death" just doesn't really cut it though.

You’ve all but implied it multiple times with your “you gotta be 4D or higher or have super acasuality or you lose! See! It’s not an NLF! Because it gets beat by literally nothing short of the best!”

Nope, mentality can change it. The 4D or acausality are just obvious easy ways out (to deal with the fate hax that comes after that too).

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's about how much you value your life. Again, why would you ever take a match you know you will lose? Oh is it because (like Stella) you have the chance to get strong enough to solve a big issue that will save millions of people therefore you're fine with throwing away your life if you fair? You're gucci. Just going in like you're in a "match to the death" just doesn't really cut it though.

Because you don't know you'll lose? Desperados show you a vision of them killing you. Big whoop, given you're not dead afterwards. So long as you can push past the jitters, in which apparently in Rakudai only a select few can do, then you're gucci. You don't know until you actually fight them, and apparently nobody's smart enough to realize that, and instead succumb to basic fear.

Nope, mentality can change it. The 4D or acausality are just obvious easy ways out (to deal with the fate hax that comes after that too).

Exactly. The mentality of "Huh, that vision was fake. Guess I'll try to kill you now." that pretty much anyone would think of.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Big whoop, given you're not dead afterwards. So long as you can push past the jitters, in which apparently in Rakudai only a select few can do, then you're gucci. You don't know until you actually fight them, and apparently nobody's smart enough to realize that, and instead succumb to basic fear.

You are dead should you actually challenge them though....
In rakudai only a select few can do without insta dying and those select few are called desperados.
You do know before actually fighting them. That's the whole point. Stella made everyone shit their pants, they still fought, Moroboshi ran chill down the spines of an entire stadium including ikki, they still fought. So i don't really see your point.

The mentality of "Huh, that vision was fake. Guess I'll try to kill you now." that pretty much anyone would think of.

The mentality of "whatever, **** my life i'll die anyway", some characters who do want to die are actually safe from this. Knives Millions was one of them, he wanted to die, so why would he care about being shown that he'll die? That's the right mentality.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You are dead should you actually challenge them though....

Except they wouldn't. Refer to my Vegeta example, who'd quite literally laugh off Edel's death vision attempts. Or even better, Cell. And then proceed to turn her into jerky.

In rakudai only a select few can do without insta dying and those select few are called desperados.
You do know before actually fighting them. That's the whole point. Stella made everyone shit their pants, they still fought, Moroboshi ran chill down the spines of an entire stadium including ikki, they still fought. So i don't really see your point.

They (at least Stella pre-Desperado) don't give you death visions. That's the breaking point for these dudes. Not for most others.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Except they wouldn't. Refer to my Vegeta example, who'd quite literally laugh off Edel's death vision attempts. Or even better, Cell. And then proceed to turn her into jerky.

This is an entirely different debate as this is discussing the "can she materialize that death?" Which is a completely different matter from the fear part. So I will leave proving you wrong on this one for another time.

They (at least Stella pre-Desperado) don't give you death visions. That's the breaking point for these dudes. Not for most others.

Stella didn't even have visions when she was scared beyond her capability to move in edelberg. Ouma got hypnotised, he didn't think he was seeing his future when he woke up. So pretty bad point there. And that's me not even bringing up the fact that desperados thing is a described as a literal aura that can be felt (I think seen too).

 

[XDragnoir]

There is a problem, does William know of the existence of the silver bullets in the first place? If he does not, Desperado hax can't kill him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This is an entirely different debate as this is discussing the "can she materialize that death?" Which is a completely different matter from the fear part. So I will leave proving you wrong on this one for another time.

I mean she can’t materialize but that’s besides the point. The point is if you beat the fear/illusion and fight them, you didn’t just give yourself a death sentence.

Stella didn't even have visions when she was scared beyond her capability to move in edelberg.

Then Stella’s willpower isn’t as good as you make it out to be if she b*tched out there.

Ouma got hypnotised, he didn't think he was seeing his future when he woke up. So pretty bad point there.

What does this even mean? I have no context to what this is so I’m just going to ignore it.

And that's me not even bringing up the fact that desperados thing is a described as a literal aura that can be felt (I think seen too).

Yeah, and? Countless characters have physical auras that can be felt. From Fairy Tail to Dragon Ball. Doesnt mean you can’t just ignore it with pure hard will (unless it’s the aura that can vaporize you or push you back or such).

 

[Ionliosite]

Then Stella’s willpower isn’t as good as you make it out to be if she b*tched out there.

Uh, no, Stella's willpower is ridiculous, there's a reason she became a Desperado.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The point is if you beat the fear/illusion and fight them, you didn’t just give yourself a death sentence.

You definitely do, that's the whole point, but again that's another topic.

Then Stella’s willpower isn’t as good as you make it out to be if she b*tched out there.

What ion said.

What does this even mean? I have no context to what this is so I’m just going to ignore it.

Abraham carter used hypnosis on Ouma, then beat him up. The hypnosis was broken (cus ouma took damage), then Ouma woke up, was staggered for sure, but he never thought "that's my future".

Yeah, and? Countless characters have physical auras that can be felt. From Fairy Tail to Dragon Ball. Doesnt mean you can’t just ignore it with pure hard will (unless it’s the aura that can vaporize you or push you back or such).

It's to say that it's something you can feel, you can feel your death, i'd have to bring up the edelweiss quotes for this one though.