- 33,408
- 8,430
In the recent Chronicle X expansion, a decent amount of Digimon were granted the same OS Generics Jesmon GX uses in his fight with Ogudomon X. This includes some Champion Digimon.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Edelweiss coming for that spot baby.
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #42
You ask for dangerous things.
- 33,408
- 8,430
What if the opponent is already dead?
thonk
thonk
- 26,330
- 3,126
@Firephoenixearl
Willian killed the embodiments of his fears and nighmares, so the desperado thing is definitelly not affecting him
Willian killed the embodiments of his fears and nighmares, so the desperado thing is definitelly not affecting him
- 26,330
- 3,126
"(Shadow Magic protects the mind, In order to become one with Shadow magic, you have to destroy embodiments of your fears and nightmares)"
- 33,408
- 8,430
Well, can Edel kill Za Duck without her powers?
- 8,753
- 1,617
This looks like a funny match up, so am kinda keeping an eye.
- 15,998
- 6,001
Just came to say nice.
- 26,330
- 3,126
1. his profile
2. You can't really e the embodiment of something without also being abtract to some degree
Last edited:
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #54
Does it matter? He'll still visualise a form of true death. This has nothing to do with being immortal, this is just fate telling him to stay the f away from desperados.
So? This isn't actual fear hax, we call it that for simplicity. This is just, you aren't going into a fight you know you'll die in without a good reason.
These reasons usually include having someone to protect (to the point where you'd throw your life away), but such a thing doesn't exist in vs battles cuz there is no one to protect. And the other is having stella's mentality. To explain her mentality which allowed her to escape the fear, it was "I am the princess, I have to save my people, for that I need to get stronger, and if I cannot get stronger here then I don't want to live". So not much change from the first but it's the "I'd rather die" kind of mentality, the reason this is so rare is cus very few ppl will actually willingly step into certain death for no reason if they can very easily avoid it.
Either that or be acausal type 4, that will save you from the active of some desperados and the passives of most desperados. Except for edel ofc cus her passives work on other desperados so good luck with that.
Last edited:
- 33,408
- 8,430
So what are the weaknesses here? Or I guess DnD resist this hax, otherwise, by how Earl is setting up this skill, Edel should take 6-C unless there is a weakness he's not bringing up.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #56
Of desperados? Well it's pretty much impossible to fight it without smurf resistance or type 4 aca. Cus you need a very specific mentality, it's as they say "it's an act similar to throwing yourself in hell". Or sth along those lines, can't remember the exact line.
- 33,408
- 8,430
I assume Smurf resistance to Fate Hax from what I am getting. Well, if this is so, then I know what I need to know.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #58
Yeah smurf resistance to fate hax.
- 7,142
- 4,657
That is without a doubt the most blatant example of Fear Manipulation their is, you see your death, you are scared of your death, you don't want to die. This is the most common type of Fear Manipulation there is, the amount of characters on the Wiki who have Fear Manipulation simply because their presence causes people to feel their inevitable death is far too numerous to give a number to.
Resistance to Fear Manipulation is indeed what is needed to resist that. We don't give it Fear Manipulation because that's the closet thing it is, it's given Fear Manipulation because it is Fear Manipulation. This is an indexing Wiki, after all, we don't give out inaccurate power descriptions if we can help it.
Resistance to Fear Manipulation is indeed what is needed to resist that. We don't give it Fear Manipulation because that's the closet thing it is, it's given Fear Manipulation because it is Fear Manipulation. This is an indexing Wiki, after all, we don't give out inaccurate power descriptions if we can help it.
- 26,330
- 3,126
^^^^^^
yeah, fire is vastly exagerating it, like all you need to get past the fear of death that is sufficiet enough willpower
yeah, fire is vastly exagerating it, like all you need to get past the fear of death that is sufficiet enough willpower
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #61
That is dumb. Like... really dumb. You give fear manipulation if you force people to feel fear when they shouldn't. That's fear manipulation. Not "I'm scared cus u gon kill me" that is naturally induced fear, resistance isn't needed for that, cuz it doesn't even apply. That is countered simply by mentality. If we do that for profiles that is dumb af and needs to be fixed.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #62
Yes but depends on the scenario. You may get past the "oh I may die", good luck with "oh I WILL die". There is generally no reason to get into a fight you know for a fact you'll die in.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #63
Anyway imma go to sleep, will get back atcha tomorrow.
- 7,142
- 4,657
Then make a CRT because that is indeed how we treat Fear Manipulation and "natural" Fear.
- 26,330
- 3,126
Fire, SBA means the fighters are compalled to fight each other to the point they would even break their own moral code and go for the kill if necessary
only a complete wuss would just run away
and the duck has willpower in spades, as he fought his own fears which is just as bad to much worse tha facing the fear of death
so, duck nopes either way and applies shadow magic
only a complete wuss would just run away
and the duck has willpower in spades, as he fought his own fears which is just as bad to much worse tha facing the fear of death
so, duck nopes either way and applies shadow magic
- 26,330
- 3,126
oh ad btw, the duck has passive fear hax from his shadow magic, so it's Edelweiss the one who gets scared into submission
- 15,920
- 2,693
I mean, even when I agree Earl is exaggerating, saying "sufficiet enough willpower" makes you resist the Desparado aura is plain wrong.
- 8,753
- 1,617
Gotta agree with Ion. We don't assume willpower is enough by now unless it is outright said.
The usual thing here is, if it's not stated to be a weakness, assume it is a resistance of the character. So instead of "this technique is weak to strong willpowers" if it's framed as "this person resisted the technique with willpower", we treat it as resistance and not some weakness of the technique.
Otherwise, resistances would not be a thing, because we could just say everything doesn't work on people stronger than you, or comparable to you, or whatever circumstances are involved. There's a reason why the rule is so explicit that "it needs to be made clear if a power has a weakness". is the only thing that divides the two most of the time.
The usual thing here is, if it's not stated to be a weakness, assume it is a resistance of the character. So instead of "this technique is weak to strong willpowers" if it's framed as "this person resisted the technique with willpower", we treat it as resistance and not some weakness of the technique.
Otherwise, resistances would not be a thing, because we could just say everything doesn't work on people stronger than you, or comparable to you, or whatever circumstances are involved. There's a reason why the rule is so explicit that "it needs to be made clear if a power has a weakness". is the only thing that divides the two most of the time.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #70
Ah yes the good ol oven argument "it's not stated anywhere on the page but we apply it in stupid ways for many series so make a CRT to change them all" despite the page saying "It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.". In other words if you can just somehow tell your opponent "yo mofo, i can kill you", that is not fear hax.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #72
Yes, "kill if necessary", not "die if necessary". I really hope you know the difference between the 2.
Most people would run away from certain death if they can avoid it.
The only reason willpower is even mentioned in the series as a way to avoid this is cus willpower makes you a desperado. So yeah unless he has shown willpower to become type 4, good luck.
How is that NLF? We call NLF on her actually causing that death for any character (although i should make a CRT in the future explaining why it's not NLF unless there are some smurf immortalities). Not just showing them, cus it's not her showing you that, it's your own fate.
- 63,529
- 8,506
You can argue fear manipulation and how it correlated with mind manipulation but don’t tell me fear or mind Manip can be shrugged through sufficient willpower
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,926
- 4,438
I mean, if you have real strong Supernatural Willpower , you might be able to. Though, those are only in some rare cases, and it doesn't look like William has it.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #75
True fear manip and mind manip, no they cannot be shrugged off like that.
The "natural fear" which as i've explained is not "true fear hax", that can be shrugged off without needing resistances should some conditions be met (depending on the type, you just need willpower for most, in rakudai's case just mentality would suffice).
- 8,950
- 990
I'm a bit confused by this part. If she can't kill a character then it isn't their fate to die. So wouldn't that also mean they aren't shown their own death by fate?
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #77
Well Desperados can cause fates that weren't supposed to happen so no. Example Ikki had no chance of killing Iris. Even his strongest blow would only break her armor and not kill her, but he influenced fate and did this:
He just couldn't lose. The moment he prepared to strike at Iris, his blade, which carried the entire history of his victories, merged with the gravitational pull of the fate of the Desperate , which had a great influence on the causality of this world. Ikki's nascent desire intervened in the history of the world and reduced to ashes the page where Ikki was to lose. The die is cast, the Rubicon is crossed. In the battle between the Desperate, the victory is won by the one who first intervenes in the causal relationships of the world. His desire destroyed possible defeat and formed at the tip of his blade as a causal force to cut everything in its path This was the real essence of the last secret blade - " Oikage ".
He did this "specifically" cus he couldn't win otherwise (couldn't kill iris). So just because they cannot achieve the death normally doesn't mean the fate cannot happen.
He just couldn't lose. The moment he prepared to strike at Iris, his blade, which carried the entire history of his victories, merged with the gravitational pull of the fate of the Desperate , which had a great influence on the causality of this world. Ikki's nascent desire intervened in the history of the world and reduced to ashes the page where Ikki was to lose. The die is cast, the Rubicon is crossed. In the battle between the Desperate, the victory is won by the one who first intervenes in the causal relationships of the world. His desire destroyed possible defeat and formed at the tip of his blade as a causal force to cut everything in its path This was the real essence of the last secret blade - " Oikage ".
He did this "specifically" cus he couldn't win otherwise (couldn't kill iris). So just because they cannot achieve the death normally doesn't mean the fate cannot happen.
- 26,330
- 3,126
@Firephoenixearl
You missed the part where even normally completly violence estaining people are willingthe to beatthe up people under sba
Most people wouldn't run away in SBA situation as theirhe only purpose there is to win
Having enough willpower to become a typete 4 acausal is completly unquantifiable
William has feats to not give in to fear, so he resists
You missed the part where even normally completly violence estaining people are willingthe to beatthe up people under sba
Most people wouldn't run away in SBA situation as theirhe only purpose there is to win
Having enough willpower to become a typete 4 acausal is completly unquantifiable
William has feats to not give in to fear, so he resists
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #79
Most people wouldn't run away in a normal fight. Things change when you know you're gonna die. And to repeat myself there is a HUGE difference between the "i could lose my life in this fight but i don't care" and "i WILL lose my life". The former doesn't cut it. And stop that twisted reading of SBA. All SBA ensures is:
1. People don't just get along together dropping the fight.
2. People don't refuse to land a finishing hit if need be.
That's it. That's all the mindset thing does, stop with the "oh but sba says this", it absolutely says nothing regarding fear.
Exactly, and you don't need willpower to become type 4, you need to become type 4. Willpower is just the way to get to type 4 in rakudai. Stop confusing the 2.
We kind of disproved that didn't we? Also it does show how much you're bothering reading the arguments when you say "he resists".
- 26,330
- 3,126
that's litterally the same thing, the fear of death doesn't change
do they have any feats of overcoming fears ? because if ot it does't ****** matter
i read it, but your argument is bullshit headcanon, so i don't buy it
what Edel has is classified as Limited Fear Mamipulation, so fear resistace blocks it, especially sice William's resistace covers the normal kind of fear
Either way, William has passive higher D fear manipulation, so Edel has litterally no chances to win
do they have any feats of overcoming fears ? because if ot it does't ****** matter
i read it, but your argument is bullshit headcanon, so i don't buy it
what Edel has is classified as Limited Fear Mamipulation, so fear resistace blocks it, especially sice William's resistace covers the normal kind of fear
Either way, William has passive higher D fear manipulation, so Edel has litterally no chances to win
