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Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
In no point does it say Type 4 exists completely outside causality, it simply says they work on a different system that makes regular Causality Manipulation fail. So you simply have to also be able to affect the irregular system as well for it to work.
 
Though regardless, if what's been said is correct then the Duck has resistance from a 4-D irregular Causality system, which is beyond Edelweiss even if she could affect another Desperado.
 
Aren't all Desperado's on the same system though? Hence why they should be able to affect one another's fate even with them having a different system of fate than most others?
 
Because they don't transcend fate as a concept. Honestly no different from the "transcends time and space" not being 1-A by default.
 
except Edel's fate maipulation is not conceptual, so they are being affected by something they supposely should be outside of
 
except Edel's fate maipulation is not conceptual, so they are being affected by something they supposely should be outside of
<Conceptual fate manip
Yeah alright.

And no, you don't need conceptual fate manip (whatever that is and wherever you got that from) to affect a type 4. You just need to be capable of affecting the system of causality they exist on.
 
also, Desperados are specifically writte as existig outside of causality/fate, so what everything said doesn't apply
Idk if you're trying really hard to try and downgrade at this point or truly don't get it.

If it's the latter, think of how it's normal to assume souls can interact with souls even though humans can't.
 
Not really seeing what's so crazy about Fate Haxing someone with Type 4 (Hell, even Digimon has done this) when we have shit like Time Stopping High 1-As, Erasing characters with NEP, etc, etc in fiction.
 
Yes, which is exactly what Everything explained
In no point does it say Type 4 exists completely outside causality, it simply says they work on a different system that makes regular Causality Manipulation fail. So you simply have to also be able to affect the irregular system as well for it to work.

@Firephoenixearl

that exemple very much doesn't work, as it would be more like trying to matter hax something not made of matter or space-time hax something outside of space-time

@Dragonmasterxyz

Time stopping High 1-A beings is not a thing, people just missuderstand Ren's law, which is Stagnation/Stillness, not time stop

Erasing nonexistant characters is Non-Existance Erasure, which is pretty much a separate power from normal EE
 
again, no, that would matter only if Edel manipulated the very concept of fate, but she doesn't, so she would be manipulating just normal fate, something that they supposently shouldn't be bound by and be above to
 
Also you're only beyond causality if you're beyond it entirely (type 5). Again same thing as beyond time. Higher D time manip can still affect people who are stated to be "beyond time". Cus we don't assume that people who are beyond time are beyond the concept of time. And you don't need conceptual time manip or whatever you may think you need to affect those.
 
I would love for Overlord to make a thread about this subject because we do have multiple examples of Type 4s being affected by fatehax across the wiki, such as in Digimon, Sonic, DC, etc. So this isn't a Rakudai only thing.
 
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