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Which are? If you're talking about PC, Sonic was threatned by a weaker clone afterwards
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Nothing, Nowhere, Not At All - Metal Overlord Generations
- Thread starter ShakeResounding
- Start date
- Status
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Chaos Emeralds do scale to Shuffle; but the premise of overlord being tier 1 hinges on Eggman actually knowing the Precioustone is tier 1 to begin with at the time, which he doesn’t really. He wasn’t there to witness Illumina call the final board the fourth dimension, he has no idea how big MW is.
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There is no buts and ifs, Chaos emeralds scale? Tier 1.Eggman doesn’t know? Not tier 1 and Power of the Stars gets downgraded too because of this exact reason, pick your poison
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Power of the stars has additional justification, post ‘06 Super Sonic blatantly saying he and Blaze have to go at Egg Wizard full power to win (that’s why Wizard is 1-C and not Low 1-C)
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@Theuser789 I'd stop with the allegations that chariot hasn't done any help or doesn't know anything he has helped me with shit and has played most of the games, just because someone doesn't interact normally on wiki doesn't give you grounds to dismiss them and belittle them.
Thats probably the most unnecessary thing you've been consistently doing in this thread so please calm down
Thats probably the most unnecessary thing you've been consistently doing in this thread so please calm down
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He does know of the scope of dreams and stuff, heck he even made one himself far before Shuffle, also the manual says he knows of the PS's power, as i linked in my first message here
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You literally conceded above that it is indeed the same argument. Eggman also believes Infinite is "unstoppable" even after everything Sonic beat, and believes Infinite is his "Ultimate Creation" despite turning the Time Eater into a cyborg. He also believes the Phantom Ruby is so powerful he doesn't need the Master Emerald anymore, making Ruby>Master Emerald.
Silver also says the Phantom Ruby has "near limitless power" in Speed Sim, even after he got all seven emeralds.
This clearly shows Infinite>>>everything prior to Forces.
No, what I am showing is how terrible this logic is. That we can just upscale everything using this simple "hype" logic to put people above others. Overlord scaling is simply based on the emeralds being "unimaginable" to Eggman after Shuffle, and Eggman thinking chances of winning with the emeralds are slim. What I am showing is that this type of upscaling can apply to everything, and you yourself agree since your only counters were "idc, apply it anyways". You're not subtle all you want is to upscale everything. At least it's better than Omega that wants to apply one but not the other.
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Don't blame me when the first thread he ever showed up it's when he wants to upscale everything, and belittles those who don't agree with him.
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Can you link it to me ? I have a bad memory
Anyways, that doesn't change anything when Sonic team needed time to charge the emeralds + Eggman saying they need a miracle to beat him + I remember multiple "Don't hold back" statements during the final boss, by default it means they also used the full power
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Here
The only dream he made was sleeping egg, which doesn’t really have any reason to be one of the 5-D dreams. The links for Eggman knowing of the precioustone’s full power are:
-Him trying to grab a random Forcejewel (dunno why this is here)
-Him saying he learned of the precioustone’s power, which is in no way indicative he knows it’s 5-D and can easily just be “he knows the stone can turn dreams into reality”
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Not that he wants to upscale everything, we already have an existing scaling chain established he's just not excusing the handwaving being used to ignore stuff and the complaints like "we've done a lot of work" or "its too much work", I'm still in agreeance with omega and Chariots points
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Ignoring the fact the Phantom Ruby one is misintepreted given "power" there isn't solely regarding raw stats but the fact it's haxed out the ass as well.You literally conceded above that it is indeed the same argument. Eggman also believes Infinite is "unstoppable" even after everything Sonic beat, and believes Infinite is his "Ultimate Creation" despite turning the Time Eater into a cyborg. He also believes the Phantom Ruby is so powerful he doesn't need the Master Emerald anymore, making Ruby>Master Emerald.
Silver also says the Phantom Ruby has "near limitless power" in Speed Sim, even after he got all seven emeralds.
And? You realize you're self-sabotaging right?
Yep would make sense I suppose? Doesn't he literally have a statement saying in raw power with the Phantom Ruby he's the strongest thing they've ever faced? Go upgade the lil brat if you wanna, idc.
Which most of the scaling already does.
Yep. Eggman believes that even with the power of the low 1-C pebbles, the MO is simply so strong that defeating him is super unlikely.
This is basic scaling, we scale MO to the thing that is deemed unlikely to beat him due to his own raw power. In a verse with constant power escalation, statements like this do in fact be abundant, DBZ syndrome.
And even if, we take your "oh Eggman just meant uh, the chance to draw on the high end power to beta him is unlikely", which is not at all what is said, it'd still lead to Low 1-C MO, because that would then frame the situation as "If you don't draw on the good shit, you die, if you do, you can beat him". They beat him, though only after a prolonged fight, so he'd scale anyway.
Then apply it to everything. I do not care. It has no bearing on the argument.
Uh, no, I just want what the evidence suggests, you are literally giving evidence to upscale everything.
That's on you, you're actively self-sabotaging your own conclusion. That ain't my fault. I only give a shit about the actual premise of the CRT, because that's what the CRT is about, and the evidence for him scaling is sound from what I've seen. Your arguments are either objectively not true like Shadow having made no progress, unused statements, or trying to scale Sonic to one of the most blatant cases of deliberate sandbagging known to man, or just going "if we do this, this must happen", which, good for that other thing. Do it, or don't, I would need to check over the context of those myself really before I agree or disagree, so yes, I don't care.
I mean I don't really care; How about instead of trying to undermine everyone by going "uh you don't play the games"
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God I wish I were belittling you, at this point it might be justified
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Admittedly it’s kind of weird but, Ian did write the story, and it wasn’t a vs related question, so I guess it was treated as fine because it’s not leading Ian into specific answers.
I’m not sure about using it myself but the idea that Black Doom prevents the timeline from healing is decent justification itself.
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He's literally agreeing with all the Infinite tier 1 arguments. Even the post above he says it's good evidence. It's simply the consequence of Omega's hype arguments. You can't accept that but keep Infinite.
Yes. If we're accepting garbage than we should go full with it rather than cherrypicking what we want. 1-C Infinite is more valid than low 1-C Overlord.
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Pretty much I think the reasoning for 5-D Overlord in this thread is pretty weak, I’d rather use the Sonic channel Perfect Chaos buff if it comes to upgrade Overlord past tier 2
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To show he was indeed in MW, in case people doubted
"Can" isn't "is", do we have any reason to demote the statement? It is said by the manual itself, not Eggman as you said, that he learned of the power the precioustone possess, so we assume the basic that "he knows what it can do" unless we have any reason to assume otherwise
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Sonic is esentially saying that their method of fightin allows them to conserve energy efficiently thus using their max he isn’t saying they’re innately using their full power at every moment. However, even if we interpret it that way, I can still say this: this is similar to the fight with MO, where there were multiple "don’t hold back" encouraging statements, emphasizing that they were giving it their all. On top of that, they needed to charge the Triple Attack to even damage hhim, which strongly implies they were battling at their maximum power. It wouldn’t make sense for them to hold back in such a dire situation when they explicitly needed time to charge the emeralds to succeed
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I prefer downgrading the Egg Wizard than having Overlord scaling to low 1-C.
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The difference is context I think, this is Sonic saying this after he had battled Solaris and remembered that experience, along with Blaze also remembering it, so the full power holds a lot more weight.
That’s not how burden of proof works, you’re trying to prove that Eggman has full knowledge of the precioustone’s capabilities and specifically it being able to sustain 5-D realms, rather than the baseline knowledge of “the stone makes dreams real”, which is the natural course one would assume from the statement since that’s what’s pointed out in the game itself and would be most readily apparent to outside overseers.
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They don't remember 06
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Bro it's Eggman. He knows what it can do. And even if he didn't at the time, he def would post Shuffle.
You are literally digging yourself a hole.
Ok good on you. Go make the upgrade ig.
Why are you arguing for stuff you don't want while posting stuff going "see! they say it here too!", what do you want me to say? "Oh yep, they say it there too, I guess they're literally just lying and we should ignore this". Dude, I don't care, that ain't the thread, and you're really not doing a good job explaining why it's ass if like ten different things all lead to the conclusion you don't want.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,559
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It really doesn't, but even if it did, are you proposing we downgrade Void or what?
Your interpretation ends up with a Low 1-C Egg Dragoon wether MO is Low 1-C or not.
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Yes, I am. If we're accepting dogshit we're going full in. Then you all harvest the consequences of accepting it.
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They do, Blaze name drops that she didn’t think she’d return to crisis city and Sonic mentions Silver trying to kill him in TSR.
The only way I imagine he’d know is extrapolating his comments about Solaris to mean he can instantly recognize higher dimensional stuff as higher dimensional, which I’m not inherently opposed to but isn’t clear from Shuffle itself due to Eggman not being a major part of the story.
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Said things happened after Rush adventure, do I need to remind you of rush, Colors DS and rivals?
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No but he is there, and he knows what it can do because that's why he wants it? And it like, isn't like he doesn't know about the collapse and shit, he's kinda there as it's happening.
Ok cool. I don't particularly mind as long as it's rooted in evidence.
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No but I don’t think that inherently takes away from the idea that Sonic at this point, should reasonably be able to tap into the full potential of the chaos emeralds due to doing it in that instant. Arguably he’s been able to do it since Sonic Adventure, going off Sonic Channel.
Well yes, he was in Maginaryworld as Void was destroying it. It’s just that he would only be able to definitively tell it was 5-D level destruction with added context from later games and interpreting specific meanings from that, stuff that arguably he couldn’t do in this game because we don’t know if he has the necessary technology (like the scanning he did with his glasses in that game)
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So FP Emeralds scaling for Master Overlord, concession accepted
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He's literally just using your logic against you and you're throwing a fit being too blind to see it, blud has never believed tier 1 infinite, clowned @Baken384 for it even.
He's literally just arguing off any objective evidence so if you keep making arguments against yourself in favor of tier 1 then he's not gonna go "aw shucks" hence him telling you you're digging youself a hole cause you're not doing a good job supporting what it is your truing to argue
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Honestly yeah, I’d prefer if that was the reasoning for it, but that was rejected (at least for PC), I doubt it would be different here.
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 9,045
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- Thread starter
- #393
Okay, I'm honestly thinking it's best to remake this thread without the Metal Overlord downgrade because I don't think staff would like to read through this debate for him.
I think Metal Overlord staying at 1-C is preferable for now and his scaling should be done in another thread that's created from this.
Can we agree to this?
I think Metal Overlord staying at 1-C is preferable for now and his scaling should be done in another thread that's created from this.
Can we agree to this?
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Good idea.
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Sure, I'd like Shadow's profile updated first then having to go through all of this.
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10 pages of Metal Overlord lmao
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Ok so....
We are told Eggman wants the thing because of its power (Nothing implicates he's going in will a lack of knowledge either, it's just framed like he knows, assuming he doesn't actually know how strong it is, would require more assumptions).
He was there the whole game, he seen what it can do, what it was doing, etc, so even if he didn't know initially, he would by the end.
He was there while the dimension was collapsing because of it, so he knows at least that much.
And yet, we're saying he actually doesn't know the full power of it? Why? He's aware of the thing that makes it Low 1-C to begin with? Are we really arguing "well he knows about it but he might not know it's AS strong as it actually is", why? What implicates that? You'd think they would have actually said that if that was the case and he was acting out of ignorance. But even then, the relevant scans happen after Shuffle, he didn't know then for some reason, he'd def know post-Shuffle.
The fact he has literally went "yep this is HDE" multiple times also isn't a very good sign, he's obviously capable of inferring or figuring out such things if we want to somehow discredit the more or less straightforward not really up for debate statements based on him just maybe being ignorant of such facts.
And the worst part of this is, this is all just assumptions. Your argument here is based on a "maybe" not "is", against statements that don't implicate such maybes to begin with.
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 9,045
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- Thread starter
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Seems that the quick reception is yes, but I'll let others comment and give it maybe an hour to see.
If the general consensus is yes, I'll create the thread and perhaps somebody could create a thread for Metal Overlord (either alongside the upcoming thread or after it's complete).
If the general consensus is yes, I'll create the thread and perhaps somebody could create a thread for Metal Overlord (either alongside the upcoming thread or after it's complete).
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