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Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

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AKM sama said:
I've been responding to you since the last 20-30 comments...what are you even saying? You can't just force me to agree with you simply because you think you're right.
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I wrote a 500 light year long essay for you and you said "I disagree" with no reason without responding and leave and that's bad for me. But okay, you aren't convinced and don't want to continue, I've already made my point and countered yours so I'll just wait. Thank for your opinion anyway.
 
Mainly because I have nothing new to write. I have already responded to everything relevant to this discussion here and I have added more in other comments. I don't see any point in us going back and forth repeating the same things which is why I stopped.
 
If each side explain all of their points in a single post, I can ask more staff members to evaluate them if you wish.
 
Exactly. Otherwise Nappa should get downgraded to 5-C as well, and actually so does Goku as well

There's literally no difference between the two scenarios. In both cases the characters downscale from someone that made the feat because Kaioken is proven to be consistent in both AP and power levels many times
 
Vizer04 said:
@FluffyCreatureZ did you change your mind now?
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No.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Exactly. Otherwise Nappa should get downgraded to 5-C as well, and actually so does Goku as well

There's literally no difference between the two scenarios. In both cases the characters downscale from someone that made the feat because Kaioken is proven to be consistent in both AP and power levels many times
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Yes there is a difference, in vegeta's case, we know for a fact that Kk3 Goku scales above him and we know it's linear.
But in the case of freeza, not only do we not know if kk10 goku even scales to him, but the pl in that section (530000) aren't even linear.
Kaioken is a linear multiplier for attack potency and speed, not power level, and power levels do not increase AP linearly, it just so happens that every time kaioken is used, power levels become linear, so we cannot assume kk10 goku scales above freeza.
That's my whole argument, just ask the mods for their opinions now, not me, I'm not important.
 
Vizer04 said:
We literally do that for Goku, Nappa and King Vegeta...
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Which we don't do via power levels. We do it through the actual multiplier of Kaioken.

Goku scales below Vegeta with Kaioken x2, but above him with Kaioken x3. So, without the use of power levels, we know that Goku and Nappa at full power are 2-3x weaker than Planet level.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
No.

Yes there is a difference, in vegeta's case, we know for a fact that Kk3 Goku scales above him and we know it's linear.
But in the case of freeza, not only do we not know if kk10 goku even scales to him, but the pl in that section (530000) aren't even linear.
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Yes we do. Goku thought he could fight against Second Form Frieza, who is far above First Form Frieza. And no, he certainly did not expect a massive zenkai in that level to happen to him, as he was surprised by his own power when that happen
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Kaioken is a linear multiplier for attack potency and speed, not power level, and power levels do not increase AP linearly
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Prove it. You literally proved nothing. All you do is just stonewall with absolutely zero proof to your claims, yet expect people to believe you just because. Sorry but that will never work on me. I'm never going to accept your argument when you provide no proof to it
FluffyCreatureZ said:
, it just so happens that every time kaioken is used, power levels become linear, so we cannot assume kk10 goku scales above freeza.
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Then why exactly in this specific instance this wouldn't work? And don't tell me because AP stuff because the same thing can be said about Vegeta's feat

We all know that kaioken increase AP linearly. We also know that kaioken increases power level linearly (Goku uses kaioken 3 times in Z: #1) In the Saiyan Saga, Goku's Base PL is 8000. With KK2 it increases to 16,000 and with KK3 it increases to 24,000. So far linear. #2) Namek Saga: Goku's Base PL is 90,000. With KK2, this becomes 180,000. Still linear. And lastly #3) Frieza Saga: Goku's Base PL is 3 million. With Kaioken times 10 it becomes 30 million and with KK20 it becomes 60 million. That's still linear)

This proves that Kaioken is consistently linear in both AP and power level, and no amounts of mental gymnastics from you are going to change that. And unless you can come with legitimate proof from the story itself to why kaioken magically stops being linear for some contrived reason, your claims are simply false
FluffyCreatureZ said:
That's my whole argument, just ask the mods for their opinions now, not me, I'm not important.
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Appealing to authority is not argument
 
He also thought he couldn't beat Third Form Frieza even after healing, so the possibility that Goku was expecting a massive zenkai is thrown out of the window
 
It's not stated that Goku knows about Zenkai boosts. Vegeta never even tells him before he's in the healing tank. So we don't know if he'd expect some sort of immediate massive amp.

Another thing is also that we don't know if they just get an immediate amp when the healing takes place over a long period. Goku's power level even with Kaioken x10 (600,000-900,000) is far inferior to a heavily suppressed Second Form Frieza, let alone his Third Form, so the fact that he believes he has a chance against either form suggests it's a progressive amp.

Vegeta was referring to all of them, and wanted Goku fully healed, potentially suggesting he wanted him to get much stronger. Later when fighting Frieza, he states that he, Krillin and Gohan could win. Vegeta then gets extremely surprised at Frieza's level of power in his next form because he thought it'd be a small amp. It's not that impressive, and treats Goku as the deadweight if anything.

Also, Vegeta said before that Goku doesn't have a chance under any circumstance.
 
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Not really, i'm not using power levels to justify the upgrade, just statements from the manga. You can check my previous reply to see those statements.

ByAsura said:
Also, Vegeta said before that Goku doesn't have a chance under any circumstance.
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Vegeta doesn't know that Goku can use a Kx10
 
And the statements aren't even accurate to begin with.

Vegeta's knowledge of x10 doesn't matter. Your argument was that Vegeta thinking Goku will be of great assistance is substantiation for this scaling, but he outright says that isn't the case.
 
ByAsura said:
It's not stated that Goku knows about Zenkai boosts. Vegeta never even tells him before he's in the healing tank. So we don't know if he'd expect some sort of immediate massive amp.
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Thank you, this supports my point, Goku wasn't expecting a massive Zenkai.
 
What I was saying is that we don't know if he was expecting an amp at all. His power could easily be increasing in the chamber.
 
I don't really see why that rules it out given how you can still be surprised at having an insane level of power that eclipses anything you've ever had (and 3/4ths of Frieza's forms), but I don't have enough evidence, so I'll just concede.
 
ByAsura is working on a cleaner AP exclusive blog to better showcase the scaling and current ratings.
 
Lack of any feat to back up the assigned values, in short. It's better to rate faster characters beyond a certain point as "likely higher" or "likely much higher" than assigning a particular value that is unsupported by feats in its vicinity.
 
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