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Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

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FluffyCreatureZ said:
Okay. Alright I'm fine with. I will post all the arguments for and against it in the OP later. But first, I need that calculation evaluated.
@KLOL506 klol man, can you kindly evaluate it?
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Isn't there another similar calc which I evaluated where Buu goes on a rampage of the universe post-Babidi's death?
 
KLOL506 said:
Isn't there another similar calc which I evaluated where Buu goes on a rampage of the universe post-Babidi's death?
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I don't recall. That may be anime only. Link?
This one is quite different, this is the only universe travelling calc in canon Z that has both a distance and a time frame.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Dunno if that works, the universe destruction statements more clearly imply voiding the universe of life rather than blow the actual thing up.
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You clearly misunderstood the calc. The calc basically have Buu gradually destroy every planet in the universe as he's considered a threat to all of Universe 7

At no point in the calc I say that he would blow up the universe in one go, nor the statements imply he would
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
You clearly misunderstood the calc. The calc basically have Buu gradually destroy every planet in the universe as he's considered a threat to all of Universe 7

At no point in the calc I say that he would blow up the universe in one go, nor the statements imply he would
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I think your low end or mid end work fine given it's how long supreme kais live as it basically implies that shin would still be alive when the destruction starts and ends
 
Spinoirr said:
I think your low end or mid end work fine given it's how long supreme kais live as it basically implies that shin would still be alive when the destruction starts and ends
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That's my reasonings too, especially since they fear Buu will come for them eventually after he's done with destroying the planets
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
You clearly misunderstood the calc. The calc basically have Buu gradually destroy every planet in the universe as he's considered a threat to all of Universe 7

At no point in the calc I say that he would blow up the universe in one go, nor the statements imply he would
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No, I meant buu targets planets with life not random ones, and even if he does target everything, he can only target stars and thus their systems as he has no way of finding non luminous objects with no life to sense. But that isn't something he's shown to do. This also isn't clear cut because these statements can also be interpreted not only as buu being a solar system buster who moves really fast but also a galaxy buster or a multi galaxy buster who moves much slower, and there's also the third interpretation which is that he only targets life, something that he has already done and been calculated which I believe is the favourable interpretation.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
No, I meant buu targets planets with life not random ones, and even if he does target everything, he can only target stars and thus their systems as he has no way of finding non luminous objects with no life to sense. But that isn't something he's shown to do.
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In Dragon Ball, most planets visited on the universe do seem to have some form of life, even if they're primitive (such as the U10 Babarians planet), so having at least one planet in each star system with life is not a far fetched assumption. But even if you do reduce the calc by assuming only 1/1000 of the planets have life in them, then the speed would go down by only a factor of 1000, which will still make the feat MFTL+
FluffyCreatureZ said:
This also isn't clear cut because these statements can also be interpreted not only as buu being a solar system buster who moves really fast but also a galaxy buster or a multi galaxy buster who moves much slower, and there's also the third interpretation which is that he only targets life, something that he has already done and been calculated which I believe is the favourable interpretation.
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The reason why it is calced this way is because we don't have clear evidence for Buu being a galaxy buster or higher than that. I am willing to edit the calc though if you could find clear statement of Buu being capable of busting entire galaxies in one go
 
The planet in that statement is a husk, but not destroyed.

I think Buu going to individual planet is more logical than him busting Solar Systems, which even he didn’t do against Goku and Vegeta.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
In Dragon Ball, most planets visited on the universe do seem to have some form of life, even if they're primitive (such as the U10 Babarians planet), so having at least one planet in each star system with life is not a far fetched assumption. But even if you do reduce the calc by assuming only 1/1000 of the planets have life in them, then the speed would go down by only a factor of 1000, which will still make the feat MFTL+

The reason why it is calced this way is because we don't have clear evidence for Buu being a galaxy buster or higher than that. I am willing to edit the calc though if you could find clear statement of Buu being capable of busting entire galaxies in one go
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Isn't it stated that there are only 27 planets with life in u7?
Though, these planets are shown to be in different places in the universe completely so he must still be able to travel these interstellar to intergalactic distances.
ByAsura said:
The planet in that statement is a husk, but not destroyed.

I think Buu going to individual planet is more logical than him busting Solar Systems, which even he didn’t do against Goku and Vegeta.
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There were life forms on it before, it's how he found it.
He can't find the planets if there are no life on them, he needs to target the stars. The reason he blew up the earth only was because he was already on it.
 
Weaker characters can sense people from interstellar distances (like Cell Saga Goku sensing New Namek from Earth, not to mention other areas of the universe), so I don’t see why Buu would be targeting stars. And it doesn’t make much sense from what we’ve seen.

Plus, wouldn’t the Supreme Kai say he’s been blowing up stars? The Supreme Kai doesn’t even go onto clarify that when Vegeta says (thinks, technically) Saiyans can do what Buu did, he just says Buu’s well above Frieza. From a narrative perspective, busting Solar Systems would make him seem like a huge threat.

My point was more that his blast doesn’t destroy anything except Earth, but that’s kind of stupid now that I think about it.

Edit: I’m a little tired. Are you claiming he’s not just destroying planets with life? If so, I guess I can get behind that.
 
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FluffyCreatureZ said:
Isn't it stated that there are only 27 planets with life in u7?
Though, these planets are shown to be in different places in the universe completely so he must still be able to travel these interstellar to intergalactic distances.
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Where it was stated? And this seems pretty illogical since we see many planets with life on them. Hell, the Frieza force own much more planets while enslaving and selling these planets, so there are certainly much more. And that's in the milky way alone. Frieza didn't got to other galaxies
 
ByAsura said:
Weaker characters can sense people from interstellar distances (like Cell Saga Goku sensing New Namek from Earth, not to mention other areas of the universe), so I don’t see why Buu would be targeting stars. And it doesn’t make much sense from what we’ve seen.

Plus, wouldn’t the Supreme Kai say he’s been blowing up stars? The Supreme Kai doesn’t even go onto clarify that when Vegeta says (thinks, technically) Saiyans can do what Buu did, he just says Buu’s well above Frieza. From a narrative perspective, busting Solar Systems would make him seem like a huge threat.

My point was more that his blast doesn’t destroy anything except Earth, but that’s kind of stupid now that I think about it.

Edit: I’m a little tired. Are you claiming he’s not just destroying planets with life? If so, I guess I can get behind that.
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No you are misunderstanding. I'm saying buu cannot find planets with no life on them, so if we interpret the statements as complete universe annihilation, then the only way for buu to destroy lifeless planets is to go to their stars and blow up their solar system, and this leads us to your next paragraph.
Exactly, shin doesn't say buu was destroying stars, but planets, this implies he's looking for planets with life on them which is supported with other evidence.
Glowing rat man is the one making that argument, I'm just saying that it's the less favourable interpretation.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Where it was stated? And this seems pretty illogical since we see many planets with life on them. Hell, the Frieza force own much more planets while enslaving and selling these planets, so there are certainly much more. And that's in the milky way alone. Frieza didn't got to other galaxies
Click to expand...
EWVx3ZJXkAA2lAU.jpg
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
This is contradicted though by earlier information since the Frieza force own hundreds of planets where they take the Frieza force, so this statement is likely false
Click to expand...
Yeah Shin literally sucks at his job and doesn't actually see how much planets with life there are so I don't think we can take his word given freizas army has multiple different alien races and how much planets he sold
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
No you are misunderstanding. I'm saying buu cannot find planets with no life on them, so if we interpret the statements as complete universe annihilation, then the only way for buu to destroy lifeless planets is to go to their stars and blow up their solar system, and this leads us to your next paragraph.
Exactly, shin doesn't say buu was destroying stars, but planets, this implies he's looking for planets with life on them which is supported with other evidence.
Glowing rat man is the one making that argument, I'm just saying that it's the less favourable interpretation.
Click to expand...
Ok, then.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
This is contradicted though by earlier information since the Frieza force own hundreds of planets where they take the Frieza force, so this statement is likely false
Click to expand...
Is there any official statement about Freeza forces owning hundreds of planets? I'd like to see exactly what was said. It could be that they own planets without life too, just to serve as their bases for operations, sort of like, space stations. But considering the later statement was in both the DBS anime and manga, it would mean a retcon even if there exists such a statement about Freeza forces.
 
AKM sama said:
Is there any official statement about Freeza forces owning hundreds of planets? I'd like to see exactly what was said.
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This was said in Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F. They tell Sorbet that the population in Frieza Planet 448 try to rebel against them, and that with Frieza not around, they have a hard time controlling their occupied worlds

That at the very least means that there are at least 448 planets occupied by the Frieza Force, though it doesn't mean there are only 448 planets, especially since there are many planets Frieza did not reached yet
AKM sama said:
It could be that they own planets without life too, just to serve as their bases for operations, sort of like, space stations. But considering the later statement was in both the DBS anime and manga, it would mean a retcon even if there exists such a statement about Freeza forces.
Click to expand...
I don't really think so, because Frieza considers Planets such as Vampa, that barely have any life to begin with, as worthless
 
Res F is a source that has been already retconned by the series though. We can't use it especially when it contradicts the same source that retcons it. I was hoping such a statement to exist in the original manga.
 
AKM sama said:
Res F is a source that has been already retconned by the series though. We can't use it especially when it contradicts the same source that retcons it. I was hoping such a statement to exist in the original manga.
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That statement regarding Frieza Planet 448 also exists in the DBS Anime as well. It's in Episode 18

Besides, that is not a retcon, it's just an example of Shin being plain wrong, like he was pretty ignorant about other things too (not knowing Beerus despite his life being linked to him, not knowing Ultra Instinct, not knowing Zeno, being unaware of potara fusion and more)
 
Oh, and that's not even mentioning that the fact Frieza Planet 79 exists in the original DB manga means that this statements is utterly false, because unlike Buu who destroys the planets he encounters, Frieza enslaves the native population and uses them in his forces like he did to the Saiyans before destroying them
 
Glowing rat man is making some incredible points. Honestly if there are hundreds of planets with life on them like that and Buu threatens all of them then that is a pretty insane speed feat considering that the planets are spread throughout the entire universe which basically forces buu to fly intergalactic distances.
latest
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Glowing rat man is making some incredible points. Honestly if there are hundreds of planets with life on them like that and Buu threatens all of them then that is a pretty insane speed feat considering that the planets are spread throughout the entire universe which basically forces buu to fly intergalactic distances.
latest
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that this is AT LEAST hundreds of planets. The fact that there is Frieza Planet 448 doesn't mean there are only 448 planets in the Frieza force. There could be many more that we simply unaware of, and not to mention places that are even outside the influence of the Frieza force such as Vampa (and formerly Earth until Goku and his friends fought Frieza, putting Earth on Frieza's map)
 
There are example of planets with life that Frieza unaware of. Like Earth, Yardrat, Namek, and two planets in the early DBS where Beerus visist for food, 1 planet got cut in half, 1 got blow up. That mean there many many more planets with life
 
Literally, the imperfect cell has two claims that threaten to destroy the entire universe, not wipe out life or dominate them. And remember picoolo claims the only reason he can do that is because of Frieza's cells (which can only give knowledge of the universe, SS type 1 and frieza's powers), not to mention anything related to type 1 immortality or long lifespan. Remember, the Imperfect cell didn't have any spaceships or even teleports at the time (he didn't even know what they were, as seen in the semi perfect cell) and the Z fighters didn't destroy the spaceships to blocking the cell threat out further backs that up (they don't even mention it lol)
And I find it strange that the Feat Spirit bomb is not used to calculate speed? The base goku at the end of the Buu saga who was too weak to transform into ssj collected/moved ki throughout the entire universe 7 (including afterlife) in a few minutes at most. And in saiyan saga, it was stated that SB is done by own user ki to collect ki, it's also a lot slower than user's actual combat/react speed, thats why Goku takes at least 30 seconds to charge it through the energy gathered around the earth, instead of 0.5 seconds or less like his sub-rel speed (and it always considers as too flow for lots of characters)
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Glowing rat man is making some incredible points. Honestly if there are hundreds of planets with life on them like that and Buu threatens all of them then that is a pretty insane speed feat considering that the planets are spread throughout the entire universe which basically forces buu to fly intergalactic distances.
Click to expand...
So Snake Way spans entire galaxies? I don't necessarily disagree with your logic (there'd also be hundreds more inhabitable planets by the time Buu started destroying everything), but let's not use a map that presents Snake Way as half the length of the universe.
Rabbit2002 said:
Literally, the imperfect cell has two claims that threaten to destroy the entire universe, not wipe out life or dominate them.
Click to expand...
Can you give scans?
 
So what do our staff members currently think that we should do here?
 
Are you guys going to discuss glowing rat man's calculation? I can't create a thread about kid buu's feat before we finish that first.
 
I mean, i get that it's something that needs to be discussed but there's more important things to discuss at the moment
 
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