Dragon ball universe crt

[LuffyRuffy46307]

As damage said, even it uses the map, if the map itself is not on scale thrn we can't use to calc


This was removed in a thread made by null, so moot point


I will be repearing myself at this point i feel, if things like the kai's planets and the snake way are not in scale, why would anything else be? Answer this questiom directly please

But the planet Kai are in scale yes, is said to have 1/10 Living universe and another world, and the path of the serpent has its own scale, which in size is defined by constructions.

 

[Omegabronic]

But the planet Kai are in scale yes, is said to have 1/10 Living universe and another world

i was talking about king kai's planet, also that is talking about the kaioshin realm, not the planet inside of it

and the path of the serpent has its own scale, which in size is defined by constructions.

i didn't understood what you just said

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Long story short, the globe showing components in the bubbles shouldn't be used for reference, just the realms themselves. Us seeing to components simply exist to give us depictions of what is in those realms. Otherworld clearly consists of a lot more than just Snake Way which is clearly a spec compared to the rest of Otherworld. It also contains Heaven which admittedly doesn't have the most consistent size and not going to vouch it being wider than the living universe, but it should still be large enough to contain the combined population at least and thus larger than the largest living world planet. Though it does circle an even larger star that is otherwise uber giant for star standards. With Hell being much larger than either of those and has multiple statements about being larger than the universe (And it would have to be since the population always rises and never decreases unlike the living world having a population that can go back and forth. But the point still stands.

And even without Otherworld, the "Edge of the Universe" detail is still only a simple fact. While it doesn't prove exact size of the living universe, it still needs to be accounted for since Line A to B is still 47 billion light years at minimum and insignificant compared to line B to C; point A being northern edge of the universe, point B being Earth, and point C being the southern edge of the universe. It's just consistent measure with the afterlife comparison globe.

 

[Damage3245]

Long story short, the globe showing components in the bubbles shouldn't be used for reference, just the realms themselves. Us seeing to components simply exist to give us depictions of what is in those realms. Otherworld clearly consists of a lot more than just Snake Way which is clearly a spec compared to the rest of Otherworld. It also contains Heaven which admittedly doesn't have the most consistent size and not going to vouch it being wider than the living universe, but it should still be large enough to contain the combined population at least and thus larger than the largest living world planet. Though it does circle an even larger star that is otherwise uber giant for star standards. With Hell being much larger than either of those and has multiple statements about being larger than the universe (And it would have to be since the population always rises and never decreases unlike the living world having a population that can go back and forth. But the point still stands.

Why doesn't that apply to the living world too?

And even without Otherworld, the "Edge of the Universe" detail is still only a simple fact. While it doesn't prove exact size of the living universe, it still needs to be accounted for since Line A to B is still 47 billion light years at minimum and insignificant compared to line B to C; point A being northern edge of the universe, point B being Earth, and point C being the southern edge of the universe. It's just consistent measure with the afterlife comparison globe.

Which lines are you referring to which have to be 47 billion light years?

 

[Omegabronic]

Long story short, the globe showing components in the bubbles shouldn't be used for reference, just the realms themselves. Us seeing to components simply exist to give us depictions of what is in those realms. Otherworld clearly consists of a lot more than just Snake Way which is clearly a spec compared to the rest of Otherworld.

if things like the components of the afterlife are not in scale, why would the realms themselves be? it seems arbitrary to desconsider only specific parts of the map, if the components are out of scale, logically everything also would be

It also contains Heaven which admittedly doesn't have the most consistent size and not going to vouch it being wider than the living universe, but it should still be large enough to contain the combined population at least and thus larger than the largest living world planet.

that is an okay assumption i guess

Though it does circle an even larger star that is otherwise uber giant for star standards.

what is the source for this? do we have any information regarding the otherworld star?

With Hell being much larger than either of those and has multiple statements about being larger than the universe (And it would have to be since the population always rises and never decreases unlike the living world having a population that can go back and forth. But the point still stands.

such statements were rejected in an earlier thread and are currently not accepted in the canon cosmology

And even without Otherworld, the "Edge of the Universe" detail is still only a simple fact. While it doesn't prove exact size of the living universe, it still needs to be accounted for since Line A to B is still 47 billion light years at minimum and insignificant compared to line B to C; point A being northern edge of the universe, point B being Earth, and point C being the southern edge of the universe. It's just consistent measure with the afterlife comparison globe.

yeah, the final results will still be above the baseline i am sure, there is a calc about the destruction being slightly above 3 times baseline

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Which lines are you referring to which have to be 47 billion light years?

The minimum distance between Earth and the "Edge of the Universe". On all corners, the Earth at bare minimum needs to be that far away from the edge of the universe and Bulma literally states in the manga that the observable is merely a spec compared to how big the rest of the universe is. Toriyama himself also states that the Dragon Ball living universe is at least as big as our universe. And since the observable universe is at least 94 billion lightyears and diameter, the actual universe would need to be much larger.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

if things like the components of the afterlife are not in scale, why would the realms themselves be? it seems arbitrary to desconsider only specific parts of the map, if the components are out of scale, logically everything also would be

Those are just common bubble reflections in fiction. There are plenty of verses that use bubbles to demonstrate the "Many universes" and often times all we see outside the bubbles is just someone's face; that doesn't mean we assume universe sized person.

But in Dragon Ball's case, the actual realms are still consistent with the statements such as afterlife being larger than living universe and Realm of the Kai's being 1/10th the size or something like that.

 

[Omegabronic]

Bulma literally states in the manga that the observable is merely a spec compared to how big the rest of the universe is.

could you show a scan of this statement? but i guess we could put an "At least" before the ratings and be good

Those are just common bubble reflections in fiction. There are plenty of verses that use bubbles to demonstrate the "Many universes" and often times all we see outside the bubbles is just someone's face; that doesn't mean we assume universe sized person.

i don't see how does that correlates to what i asked

But in Dragon Ball's case, the actual realms are still consistent with the statements such as afterlife being larger than living universe

the map contradicts that since both are of the same size in it, but anyway the map and the statements are different things, if the informations in regard to size in the map are clearly wrong, then we discard the map and use those statements instead without using the map to cal the distance

and Realm of the Kai's being 1/10th the size or something like that.

yeah that can be kept i guess

 

[Damage3245]

The minimum distance between Earth and the "Edge of the Universe". On all corners, the Earth at bare minimum needs to be that far away from the edge of the universe and Bulma literally states in the manga that the observable is merely a spec compared to how big the rest of the universe is. Toriyama himself also states that the Dragon Ball living universe is at least as big as our universe.

It seems like the best solution is to just treat the living world as being as big as our Universe.

Where does Bulma say that the Observable Universe is merely a spec?

And since the observable universe is at least 94 billion lightyears and diameter, the actual universe would need to be much larger.

Why would this be the case? We've been given no reason to indicate that the edges of the Dragon Ball universe are visible, or if that if you just travel "up" far enough you'll be able to fly to Heaven. The interior of the living world shouldn't have any bearing on the size of the exterior Universe.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

could you show a scan of this statement? but i guess we could put an "At least" before the ratings and be good

I am getting ready for work again, but it was shown in a lot of threads. I could dig up an old thread again to find it unless someone else already posts it by the time I do.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, I found it via a google search, she says it here.

 

[Omegabronic]

Actually, I found it via a google search, she says it here.

she doesn't say anything about the observable being merely a spec compared to the rest of the universe in this scan tho

 

[ImmortalDread]

I'm pretty sure staff can give permission to users to create a topic that is normally against discussion rules.

This is not a rule, yet. You actually reminded me to remind Ant to evaluate it. Thanks. :3

 

[Reiner04]

This is not a rule, yet. You actually reminded me to remind Ant to evaluate it. Thanks. :3

Rule has been long broken when universe was argued to be infinite in size in a staff discussion forum itself and Ant gave a permission for it. Anyway, staff can do that, given that it's no less than 3 staff members.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I meant by, Damage reminded of my last staff thread, lol. I never said he is wrong.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Thinking about it, when do we see the Afterlife in the manga/DBS?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Thinking about it, when do we see the Afterlife in the manga/DBS?

He is shown briefly in chapter 16 of the manga and in the first few chapters of the manga, where Goku trains there.

Edit, edit, edit= I forgot to mention that Top is also shown, where Freeza gets his own earth-based hell with cute little fairies

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

If these things are so out of scale, who is to say the realms aren't, why would the realms be in scale when everything else isn't


The realms existing is not a factor here, they do exist in the universe, they are just not visible in dbs anime version of the universe


The fact that we don't see them from outside the universe?


If they aren't in scale, why would anything else be?


The guides are secondary cannon, and again the realms not being visible just means that they are not visible just means that they are not visible from outside, is therr anything in the main canon, no guides, that would suggwst that they would be visible?


Read above


If the tge things are not in scale, why would the living realm or the other realms be? Because if they aren't then calcing with it doesn't work


Covered in point 2 of the op:
"2: the map is clearly not in scale, and you can clearly see the map makes the snake way, which is only 1.000.000 km long, is seemingly 2x the universe in height if put in a horizontal position, also king kai's planet, which is extremely small, is via this map only 14.25x smaller than the entire living universe, so even in the manga, it shouldn't be used to calc since it is clearly out of scale in size."

I already addressed that and like DDM said above the living universe would at minimum be as big as our world from how Toriyama describes it and the afterlife is depicted as shortly bigger and the Kaioshin realm being a 10th of both realms combined so the sizes of the realm are consistent the only inconsistencies like AKM has said are the things within afterlife which again as said are only slightly bigger to depict where places in the afterlife are so they shouldn’t have an effect on the calcs so as I explained earlier the realms sizes are consistent just not the things within the afterlife which have a reason to being ignored

 

[Omegabronic]

I already addressed that and like DDM said above the living universe would at minimum be as big as our world from how Toriyama describes it

which is what was suggested in the op yes

and the afterlife is depicted as shortly bigger

when? i am sure that such statements were already rejected in an earlier thread

and the Kaioshin realm being a 10th of both realms combined

yeah this is not changing for the op proposals outside of the anime proposal

so the sizes of the realm are consistent the only inconsistencies like AKM has said are the things within afterlife

if the map shows inconsistencies in sizes, then we can't use the size of the distances to calculate

which again as said are only slightly bigger to depict where places in the afterlife are

define "slightly" a 1.000.000km long path being 2x the universe in height if put horizontally is anything but slight

so they shouldn’t have an effect on the calcs so as I explained earlier the realms sizes are consistent just not the things within the afterlife which have a reason to being ignored

you would need to provide scans for thing like the afterlife, i am pretty sure we already rejected these statements

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

she doesn't say anything about the observable being merely a spec compared to the rest of the universe in this scan tho

She specifically states attempting to observe the entire universe from earth is impossible due to "Living at the edge of the universe" and that they'd need to move to the center of the universe to do so.

 

[Reiner04]

I meant by, Damage reminded of my last staff thread, lol. I never said he is wrong.

Mb

So one proposal is that Size of U7 should be taken as same as the Size of Observable Universe, @omegabronic ?

And other proposal is that we should take the size to be..?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just a heads up, being "The same size as our universe" =/= same size as the observable universe. Since IRL, Observable universe is just a spec compared to how big the actual universe is which would be up to like 10^23 times the diameter or even infinite.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

which is what was suggested in the op yes


when? i am sure that such statements were already rejected in an earlier thread


yeah this is not changing for the op proposals outside of the anime proposal


if the map shows inconsistencies in sizes, then we can't use the size of the distances to calculate


define "slightly" a 1.000.000km long path being 2x the universe in height if put horizontally is anything but slight


you would need to provide scans for thing like the afterlife, i am pretty sure we already rejected these statements

No you’re trying to default the entire macrocosm to the size of the observable universe that’s mad downplay

as I’ve established before the sizes of the realms are consistent it’s just the things inside the afterlife which are bigger to pinpoint the locations so the Calc isn’t used to scale things in the afterlife and Vice versa but the living universe was calced and that was used to Calc the entire afterlife and the kaioshin realm the inconsistent size depictions aren’t used in the Calc and only the consistent ones are used like I’ve explained and AKM explained

also what statements are you referring to?

 

[Damage3245]

as I’ve established before the sizes of the realms are consistent it’s just the things inside the afterlife which are bigger to pinpoint the locations so the Calc isn’t used to scale things in the afterlife and Vice versa but the living universe was calced and that was used to Calc the entire afterlife and the kaioshin realm the inconsistent size depictions aren’t used in the Calc and only the consistent ones are used like I’ve explained and AKM explained

There is no given reason for why the size of the interior of the living world lines up with the distance between two points outside of the living world.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

There is no given reason for why the size of the interior of the living world lines up with the distance between two points outside of the living world.

I don’t understand what you mean by that

 

[ImmortalDread]

He said that there is no reason that the inside of the living world has something to do with the distance between two points outside of it.

 

[Omegabronic]

Mb

So one proposal is that Size of U7 should be taken as same as the Size of Observable Universe, @omegabronic ?

And other proposal is that we should take the size to be..?

for the anime the proposal is to just take as the size of the observable universe, for the manga the same thing, but i guess we can ad the "kaioshin realm 1/10 of the universe's size" since there is no contradictions to it on contrary to the anime, but i am not 100% sure on that and would like to hear more opinions from users and staff about it first before deciding anything personally

She specifically states attempting to observe the entire universe from earth is impossible due to "Living at the edge of the universe" and that they'd need to move to the center of the universe to do so.

which means that from the edge of the universe to the other side is too big to measure, but that says nothing about how big the observable universe is in comparison to the whole universe, we don't have any proof of an observable universe at all for that matter

Just a heads up, being "The same size as our universe" =/= same size as the observable universe. Since IRL, Observable universe is just a spec compared to how big the actual universe is which would be up to like 10^23 times the diameter or even infinite.

yeah but the observable universe is the safe standard low ball, no?

No you’re trying to default the entire macrocosm to the size of the observable universe that’s mad downplay

that is a safe low ball based on what we know of it

as I’ve established before the sizes of the realms are consistent

and i asked for the sources for the information since i am sure we rejected them in a an earlier thread, could you please provide the source

it’s just the things inside the afterlife which are bigger to pinpoint the locations so the Calc isn’t used to scale things in the afterlife and Vice versa but the living universe was calced

you didn't answered my question, why would the things in the afterlife be out of scale and the realms not? answer this directly please

and that was used to Calc the entire afterlife and the kaioshin realm the inconsistent size depictions aren’t used in the Calc and only the consistent ones are used like I’ve explained and AKM explained

it is using the proportions and sizes provided by the map, which has notorious inconsistencies in size, so to use it to calc the distance between, say, the kaioshin realm and the living universe is not valid since the sizes are shown to be wrong in the map, give me a solid reason why would everything in the map be out of scale but not the realms, other statements of size aside, since the contradiction is also in the distance between them

also what statements are you referring to?

see here https://vsbattles.com/threads/real-quick-dragon-ball-thing.150072/

 

[Damage3245]

He said that there is no reason that the inside of the living world has something to do with the distance between two points outside of it.

This, yeah.

 

[Hasty12345]

I change my mind to disagree, we should consider the map to scale and downgrade the universe size to 4-B due to snakeway being drawn to scale with the living universe.

also, Goku’s height should be downscaled proportionally to like atomic in size

 

[Reiner04]

Hasty makes sense to me.

 

[Damage3245]

Please don't waste our time with jokes, I've already issued a warning on this thread for that.

 

[Hasty12345]

Hasty makes sense to me.

And all the supporters should agree as it’s what they’re arguing for

 

[Hasty12345]

Please don't waste our time with jokes, I've already issued a warning on this thread for that.

Bro it’s literally what they spent 2 pages arguing in support of, there’s no jokes here

 

[Damage3245]

Bro it’s literally what they spent 2 pages arguing in support of, there’s no jokes here

Nobody is arguing for that.

 

[Omegabronic]

I change my mind to disagree, we should consider the map to scale and downgrade the universe size to 4-B due to snakeway being drawn to scale with the living universe.

also, Goku’s height should be downscaled proportionally to like atomic in size

And all the supporters should agree as it’s what they’re arguing for

What the hell are you talking about? no one argued for that at all

 

[Hasty12345]

What the hell are you talking about? no one argued for that at all

It’s literally the consequences of taking the map to scale

 

[Reiner04]

What alternatives we have for U7 size aside from observable universe scale? We obviously aren't taking Map into consideration at all to scale the size.

 

[Omegabronic]

It’s literally the consequences of taking the map to scale

So wait, are you agreeing with the thread then? Because to negate the map to scale is the purpose of the thread

What alternatives we have for U7 size aside from observable universe scale? We obviously aren't taking Map into consideration at all to scale the size.

For manga, none for the universe and afterlife, but i guess we can use the "kaioshin realm 1/10 of the macrocosm" statement, but for anime we have the maps shown and linked in the op

 

[pineappleman]

What alternatives we have for U7 size aside from observable universe scale? We obviously aren't taking Map into consideration at all to scale the size.

Guidebook statements concerning size as long as they're not contradicted.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I don’t see the issue with 3-A Afterlife remaining based off the map literally depicting it to be bigger than the Living Universe, it’s a pretty straightforward Occam’s Razor when considering that the map does take into consideration how the realms correspond in size hence the Kaioshin Realm being so much smaller than the Living Universe. Doubly so when considering that the Afterlife dwarfs the Kaioshin Realm which is at least 1/10th of a universe in size.

Not everything has to be perfectly to scale in order for the map to deliver a more general “this is bigger than that” dichotomy for the realms.

The rest of the map like the distance between the realms and exact pixel scaling done with it should probably be discarded as not to scale though.