Nullflowerblush
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It isn't.yes Dragon Ball Kai is canon
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It isn't.yes Dragon Ball Kai is canon
I already lost excuses, I did not know that this was something aggressive.@LuffyRuffy46307 tone the behavior down right now. If you don’t apologize and make an effort to act more mature over a CRT you will be reported, is that clear?
As for the thread itself, with some of the newer info to retcon the universe globe looks, plus the inconsistency with the scale for snake way and king Kai’s planet, I’d be fine with that being removed when it comes to scaling Dragon Ball’s universe, and would just use the observable universe as the basis unless there’s other sources we can use that isn’t contradicted.
Yes, the guides and databooks are secondary canon, but treating any information coming from them as headcanon by default unless all of them have been directly stated/show in main canon its bonkers.
Just because King Kai never stated how much big its the Other World is doesn't automatically disgregate all the info about the realm to be universal in size.
That a ridiculous standard, as long there is no direct contradiction the information from guides and databooks are fair to be use as evidence, and if there is some inconsistencies then it still doesn't mean that the rest of the info must be now wrong.
Those do not looks like separated dimensions at all, they looks more like large nebulas or dwarf galaxies within the map, and this assumption is baseless as nothing indicate that those are suppost to rappresent separated dimensions.
If we trully must assume that those visuals are suppost to be fully accurate on scale descriptions that are meant completely retcon the original structure given to Universe 7 (even thought the DBS Manga show the same structure still exist), then we have to say that Other World and Kaioshin Realm are no longer part of Universe 7 (like with ROSAT) and that universes are only 3-C in size.
Yeah, i completely disagree with the CRT.
Great!
Here's a Dragon Ball Super guidebook that shows the same U7 map.
It has not been retconned. What's left now?
Before you agree with everything presented, read the counter arguments, where this topic was refuted, and to clarify one thing, this is one of the rules that AKM made, and the same arguments were used to lower the back.What contradict the macrocosm map? Aside for the visuals used in DBS, which i already stated why its a bad idea.
The same structure was show in DBS Manga for crying out loud, the canon series with its loosely based on Toriyama's vision and nobody else (aside for Toyotaro).
The way the universes are show make them seen to have just single large galaxy with a few large nebulas/dwarf galaxies orbiting around the main body.
I don't see how that can be interpreted in any different way.
Snakeway is shown to show the locations of the afterlife and isn’t used in the calculation AKM states the only things that matter are the realms themselvesI'm not convinced by that.
Because the things are that big to show the locations of them but as said doesn’t influence the calculationsif the things in the afterlife are not in scale, why would anything else be?
The globe isn’t retconned and the argument that the kaioshin realm and afterlife are one of those specs of light is wrong when the kaioshin realm is shown orbiting around the macrocosm and is stated to be the size of a tenth of the living universe and afterlife combined@LuffyRuffy46307 tone the behavior down right now. If you don’t apologize and make an effort to act more mature over a CRT you will be reported, is that clear?
As for the thread itself, with some of the newer info to retcon the universe globe looks, plus the inconsistency with the scale for snake way and king Kai’s planet, I’d be fine with that being removed when it comes to scaling Dragon Ball’s universe, and would just use the observable universe as the basis unless there’s other sources we can use that isn’t contradicted.
they weren't, i made that very clear in page oneBefore you agree with everything presented, read the counter arguments, where this topic was refuted, and to clarify one thing, this is one of the rules that AKM made, and the same arguments were used to lower the back.
which is the thing getting targeted hereSnakeway is shown to show the locations of the afterlife and isn’t used in the calculation AKM states the only things that matter are the realms themselves
yes they doBecause the things are that big to show the locations of them but as said doesn’t influence the calculations
again, this is covered in the op, read point 2, even if the globe is used, it still brings contradictions in sizes and as such, can't be used in calculation due to that
it is only ever shown orbiting in the macrocosm map, show where in the actual series does it shown itself orbiting itand the argument that the kaioshin realm and afterlife are one of those specs of light is wrong when the kaioshin realm is shown orbiting around the macrocosm
which is clearly not the case in dbs anime when we actually see the universe from outside, it is either too small to be seen from outside, or one of the cosmic objects pointed in the op is it, i would go with the former just to be safe thoand is stated to be the size of a tenth of the living universe and afterlife combined
well, you two are the calc members that commented on this, are any of you willing to do the recalcs? or should we call some other calc group member?
I only did the stuff involving the macrocosm.well, you two are the calc members that commented on this, are any of you willing to do the recalcs? or should we call some other calc group member?
Calm down, you have to wait 48 hours, and the counterarguments are coming, no need to introduce yourself, lolwell, you two are the calc members that commented on this, are any of you willing to do the recalcs? or should we call some other calc group member?
I'm pretty sure staff can give permission to users to create a topic that is normally against discussion rules.Before you agree with everything presented, read the counter arguments, where this topic was refuted, and to clarify one thing, this is one of the rules that AKM made, and the same arguments were used to lower the back.
Thank you for commenting.I thought the map was just a reference, like heaven would be here, hell here, and so on. Not an actual visual shot of the universe. I'm honesty fine with using the normal universe since we actual see it looks like the normal universe in DBS but really, I don't much have time for heavy DB revisions like this though.
Okay, but AKM still has to come here, she made this rule and knows the verse, so wait a little longer.I'm pretty sure staff can give permission to users to create a topic that is normally against discussion rules.
I give permission for omegabronic's thread to continue and I think the topic is seriously worth exploring instead of trying to shut it down from the onset.
We're not in a rush for it to be applied. There has to be a minimum of 48 hours that pass anyway.Okay, but AKM still has to come here, she made this rule and knows the verse, so wait a little longer.
okay, thank you for the input, do you believe that we could use one of these for the recalc of the anime if it comes down to it?I only did the stuff involving the macrocosm.
Though even then characters would still be far above baseline thanks to inverse-square law and given that Earth is at the far edge of the universe. Speed feats get halved as a result I believe. The current diameter is just 2x over the regular size IIRC.
thank you Damage, that was a mistake on my part, I should have asked for permission first before doing the thread, welp every day a new lesson learned i guessI'm pretty sure staff can give permission to users to create a topic that is normally against discussion rules.
I give permission for omegabronic's thread to continue and I think the topic is seriously worth exploring instead of trying to shut it down from the onset.
okay, thank you for the input, do you believe that we could use one of these for the recalc of the anime if it comes down to it?
more in favor of using the first image of this one below, since it is when we see it the closest and the most detailed
was your recalc using just the basic observable universe assumption instead of the radius gotten by calculating the macrocosm map?None of this is needed to make an actual calculation. I think I already redid it with the manga Zamasu calculation, just copypaste that shit and call it a day.
Yes.was your recalc using just the basic observable universe assumption instead of the radius gotten by calculating the macrocosm map?
oh, that is good then, should i link it in the op for easy access?Yes.
DBS (Manga) - Merged Zamasu gets angry
vsbattles.fandom.com
You can ignore the map in the calc above, I dumped it and just used full diameter of the IRL universe because of the Earth being at the edge and all.
LMAO, just divide 8.8e+26 m by 30 seconds and you get 2.9333333e+25 m/s and you get 97.85-ish quadrillion times FTL. Speed only gets halved, so not that big of a difference.altho, the speed calculation should also be recalced since it uses the earlier macrocosm map
huh, okay then, but that should probably be put on a blog for evaluation firstLMAO, just divide 8.8e+26 m by 30 seconds and you get 2.9333333e+25 m/s and you get 97.85-ish quadrillion times FTL. Speed only gets halved, so not that big of a difference.
if elements from it are out of scale, why would the size of the realms be?I think the point about them being different spaces is a better argument for downgrading the calcs instead of the size of the other dimensions. 4-C Afterlife is pretty excessive when considering that the map does still take account how the realms themselves correlate in size (not the landmarks)
as above, we don't know their sizes based on the series itself, and the map of the macrocosm is clearly out of scale in sizeand having it dwarf the Kaioshin Realm and mirror outer space itself in size.
"Proposal for the anime: simply use the images we have of the universe showed in the anime alongside the basic assumption of the observable universe, and make estimates for the sizes of the other dimensions based on what we know of them, which is that we at least know that they have a star in themBro what??? 4-C afterlife wtf is going on
That “star” in the afterlife is stated to be bigger than most of the observable/known living universeif elements from it are out of scale, why would the size of the realms be?
as above, we don't know their sizes based on the series itself, and the map of the macrocosm is clearly out of scale in size
"Proposal for the anime: simply use the images we have of the universe showed in the anime alongside the basic assumption of the observable universe, and make estimates for the sizes of the other dimensions based on what we know of them, which is that we at least know that they have a star in them
Proposal for the db manga: i guess we can only use the basic observable universe assumption and go on from there, but i believe the logic for the other dimensions proposed above could be used as well"
The landmarks are only there as locational indicators, they don't discredit the outline of the cosmology as a whole. It's really weird that Toriyama would just arbitrarily draw the Afterlife equal in size to outer space and way bigger than the Kai Realm (which has numerous stars) while it's supposedly a 4-C structure, especially since the size of the Kai Realm does show that the map pays attention to detail on the matter of how the dimensions correlate in size (i.e. the Kai Realm being much smaller than outer space).if elements from it are out of scale, why would the size of the realms be?
as above, we don't know their sizes based on the series itself, and the map of the macrocosm is clearly out of scale in size
Isn't this from that Dragon Ball RPG game that is totally disregarded?That “star” in the afterlife is stated to be bigger than most of the observable/known living universe
that scan is from a table board game, i don't think that we even allow it for anything, besides in the anime we don't see a massive sun in the universe from outside, so it gets contradicted either wayThat “star” in the afterlife is stated to be bigger than most of the observable/known living universe
If you know it needs to be changed, why the need to ask me? Just divide the energy yield by the accepted timeframe.btw, isn't the method used to calc the bog feat different in the manga? so it should also be changed, no?
sorry, it is just that i am not a calc member and don't know how to do calcs, i was just asking to be sure, didn't mean to annoy, sorryIf you know it needs to be changed, why the need to ask me? Just divide the energy yield by the accepted timeframe.
consistent with what exactly? Earth being on the edge of the universe doesn't mean much for its sizeHowever, some aspects are consistent such as the fact that the living universe alone would have to be much bigger than the observable universe as Earth is located in the center of the own observable universe.
i don't understand how Earth being close to the edge changes anything, could you explain please?Likewise, even that is still a spec compared to how large the universe actually is with earth in Dragon Ball being located closer to the edge of the universe.
is it? what is the source for this information?Likewise, Otherworld by extension is officially larger than the living universe.
did he? could you show it?And AKM sama has already addressed the numerous points people have against the common concerns.