- 33,408
- 8,430
I honestly find Super just more fun to watch.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 61: It's almost time and 30 secs in an episode is a thing
- Thread starter TISSG7Redgrave
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dragon ball
- Status
- 898
- 162
I've explained it many times but I'll repeat what I said; I'm not against Goku losing. I'm against the way it was handled. If UI Omen had lost against Jiren in the final fight, I wouldn't have felt the way I do now. It's the fact that jiren is a Gary Sue and a hyped transformation failed to defeat said Gary Sue; that being said, I'm not sure whether there was hype around SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ3 Goku in Japan. If there is, I can't remember but I think there was. But SSG and MUI are 2 different things and comparing the situations of both is like comparing apples and oranges.Ovrhide said:
- 898
- 162
>Ultra Instinct Shaggy confirmed. He'll walk on Jiren's face.CursedGentleman said:
- 898
- 162
Apples and Oranges, imo.Ryukama said:
- 3,082
- 1,141
I've explained it many times but I'll repeat what I said; I'm not against Goku losing. I'm against the way it was handled. If UI Omen had lost against Jiren in the final fight, I wouldn't have felt the way I do now. It's the fact that jiren is a Gary Sue and a hyped transformation failed to defeat said Gary Sue; that being said, I'm not sure whether there was hype around SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ3 Goku in Japan. If there is, I can't remember but I think there was. But SSG and MUI are 2 different things and comparing the situations of both is like comparing apples and oranges.
Jiren isn't a Gary sue, he is a being above hakaishin level, as established in 93. He has flaws as we have seen, he is far from perfect. The problem is people overhyping MUI gokus power. MUI goku isn't this overly powerful transformation capable of defeating anyone, on the contrary, we have a quote from beerus in a promo stating that MUI goku MIGHT be stronger than him, not outright stronger than him. This is a case of a fandom overhyping something far more than it needs to. Attacking and defending without thinking, somehow people think thats an out of this world ability.
(This part below isnt meant for your response, this is my opinion) Goku losing to jiren could be beneficial to the story. From the interview that came out, with jiren having an important role in 131, and producers thinking that Akira Toriyama might expand on the story based on how it ends, i believe jiren will be something of importance in future installments. With the revelation of beerus perhaps being on par with MUI goku, we can potentially have a beerus vs goku rematch. This also means Goku still has room for inprovement, he can still get stronger.
Jiren isn't a Gary sue, he is a being above hakaishin level, as established in 93. He has flaws as we have seen, he is far from perfect. The problem is people overhyping MUI gokus power. MUI goku isn't this overly powerful transformation capable of defeating anyone, on the contrary, we have a quote from beerus in a promo stating that MUI goku MIGHT be stronger than him, not outright stronger than him. This is a case of a fandom overhyping something far more than it needs to. Attacking and defending without thinking, somehow people think thats an out of this world ability.
(This part below isnt meant for your response, this is my opinion) Goku losing to jiren could be beneficial to the story. From the interview that came out, with jiren having an important role in 131, and producers thinking that Akira Toriyama might expand on the story based on how it ends, i believe jiren will be something of importance in future installments. With the revelation of beerus perhaps being on par with MUI goku, we can potentially have a beerus vs goku rematch. This also means Goku still has room for inprovement, he can still get stronger.
- 11,531
- 8,016
Again how so? SSG (at least at the time before other forms came and overshadowed it) was just as if not even more hyped up and important in lore as Ultra Instinct. Yet it still lost to an opponent who was established to be ridiculously powerful. What makes this time any different? Unless you just don't like the fact that it happened again.Stryk3r1337 said:
- 33,408
- 8,430
This is the Dragon Ball community in a nutshell.Ryukama said:
- 11,531
- 8,016
Super Saiyan God was the center transformation around the first continuation of the Dragon Ball series in well over a decade. And featured in the first Dragon Ball movie in 17 years to have a theatrical release. A transformation that had 2 entire prophecies centered around it. One that worked on God Ki, an entirely different level of power in which no "mortal" could sense. One that required an ancient ritual as it was too powerful for conventional training to obtain. The form where Goku greatly surpassed every form, limit or opponent before and "ascended to godhood".
Then guess what? Goku still lost to Beerus. And Beerus was only using 70% of his power at that.
Any complaint you can make about Ultra Instinct still losing to Jiren can be said about BoG. BoG is arguably an even more extreme extent of this. It's not "apples to oranges". Though I can see people not liking that the same thing happened yet again.
Then guess what? Goku still lost to Beerus. And Beerus was only using 70% of his power at that.
Any complaint you can make about Ultra Instinct still losing to Jiren can be said about BoG. BoG is arguably an even more extreme extent of this. It's not "apples to oranges". Though I can see people not liking that the same thing happened yet again.
- 11,531
- 8,016
Anyways unpopular opinion time, I don't care how OP they make Jiren at this point on, because I can't take his stupid ass character seriously in the slightest. I put him in the same category as Arale. Silly person meant to be ridiculously strong.
- 3,082
- 1,141
Super Saiyan God was unimaginably powerful by the time. It being described as power that Goku could have never achieved on his own, a world beyond anything Goku could have imagined, a Form with the word God on it. It was so hype that before super came out, people put it way above the likes of ssj4 Gogeta, the strongest db character at the time,
- 898
- 162
Slight difference here is that Beerus is a literal GoD and Jiren is a ningen, albeit a very powerful one. And I think the fact that there was still more to come after the Beerus saga and that Goku had time made things better whereas here, the series is ending (not the whole franchise, but the Super anime). Goku could still train and train to atleast get close to Beerus whereas the fight against Jiren is it. Beerus is a GoD and Jiren is just a DB version of Saitama with a Batman-esque backstory.Ryukama said:
- 11,531
- 8,016
And Jiren is someone explicitly stronger than a literal GoD. Just like it made sense for Goku getting this sudden new form to not be on Beerus's level, it makes sense for Goku getting this sudden new form to not be on Jiren's level.
We had no idea if there was more to come around the time BoG came out. It was just speculation until RoF then Super got announced. Also as stated Toriyama is likely trying to build up to new stories.
Now the complaint is just that you think Jiren is a shitty character so you don't like Goku losing to him (which I don't necessarily think is an invalid complaint). Not that Goku got a new hyped up form and still lost to someome clearly too powerful for him like many others are saying.
We had no idea if there was more to come around the time BoG came out. It was just speculation until RoF then Super got announced. Also as stated Toriyama is likely trying to build up to new stories.
Now the complaint is just that you think Jiren is a shitty character so you don't like Goku losing to him (which I don't necessarily think is an invalid complaint). Not that Goku got a new hyped up form and still lost to someome clearly too powerful for him like many others are saying.
- 33,408
- 8,430
Well like I said Ryu already made it much easier for me to accept with his earlier comment.
Honestly, though for me, the situation of SSG and MUI just felt different. For some reason it felt that MUI losing after Goku had mastered it after all the crap he went through during this arc for it seemed to just leave a bitter taste in my mouth when compared to SSG losing to Beerus I honestly don't know why. I feel like MUI was hyped up more than SSG in some way shape or form. That might not be the reality however.
Honestly, though for me, the situation of SSG and MUI just felt different. For some reason it felt that MUI losing after Goku had mastered it after all the crap he went through during this arc for it seemed to just leave a bitter taste in my mouth when compared to SSG losing to Beerus I honestly don't know why. I feel like MUI was hyped up more than SSG in some way shape or form. That might not be the reality however.
- 11,531
- 8,016
SSG's initial appearance was more hyped than Ultra Instict's initial appearance. However since Ultra Instinct came after SSG became totally irrelevant of course it got hyped as being a much better form than SSG. Just like how SSJ1 was insanely hyped at first but then later forms came on to overshadow it. And this will inevitably happen to Ultra Instinct if new stories come along. There'll be some baddie that makes Jiren look like a girl scout and Goku's gonna get some other "uber strongest form evar!!!" to fight him.
I think one of the main things is people don't like Goku losing this way yet again, and they hate Jiren as a character.
I think one of the main things is people don't like Goku losing this way yet again, and they hate Jiren as a character.
- 33,408
- 8,430
Well tbh I don't mind Jiren at all. I want him to return later on to get more character out of him. I never disliked the guy. I actually like him for the memes alone.
- 11,531
- 8,016
I see.
Anyways one thing I like about Super is that they've kept Beerus relevant for a super long time. In Z Frieza immediately became irrelevant in the next arc. Cell became immediately irrelevant in the next arc. Beerus remained stronger than Goku for almost the entire series. Hit and Frieza were still legit rivasl for Goku until Ultra Instinct happened. It seems they're going to keep Jiren around for a pretty long time.
Super kept baddies relevant longer than Z did in many instances.
Anyways one thing I like about Super is that they've kept Beerus relevant for a super long time. In Z Frieza immediately became irrelevant in the next arc. Cell became immediately irrelevant in the next arc. Beerus remained stronger than Goku for almost the entire series. Hit and Frieza were still legit rivasl for Goku until Ultra Instinct happened. It seems they're going to keep Jiren around for a pretty long time.
Super kept baddies relevant longer than Z did in many instances.
- 33,408
- 8,430
That's not all. They kept Frieza relevant in Super as well. Super makes sure the characters who are considered powerful, are still relevant....except Zamasu....
- 33,408
- 8,430
I am still looking forward to this fight AND the surprise at the end that the producers hyped up.
In the end, all I want is Universe 6 to return.
In the end, all I want is Universe 6 to return.
- 33,408
- 8,430
- 11,531
- 8,016
What I don't like is they're probably gonna wrap up the side story of Frieza's plan to manipulate the gods and overthrow Zeno in the shittiest, most rushed way possible. As well as how this ties to the end of Z. There are also many other things they haven't tied up.
1. Zalama
2. The other 4 strongest fighters besides Grand Priest.
3. The other 4 universes that were completely and utterly unexplored.
4. Geene and his universe's invention of time travel.
5. Who created the universes? (It is never, ever once stated that Zeno created the universes)
6. Update on how Trunks and Mai are doing.
The story can't end here
1. Zalama
2. The other 4 strongest fighters besides Grand Priest.
3. The other 4 universes that were completely and utterly unexplored.
4. Geene and his universe's invention of time travel.
5. Who created the universes? (It is never, ever once stated that Zeno created the universes)
6. Update on how Trunks and Mai are doing.
The story can't end here
- 3,109
- 870
@Ryu
The series director (I think. Or one of the writers) said Toriyama is ending Super in a way that will set up new stories (Cliffhanger?)
ZALAMA APPEARS INSTEAD OF SUPER SHENRON OWO
The series director (I think. Or one of the writers) said Toriyama is ending Super in a way that will set up new stories (Cliffhanger?)
ZALAMA APPEARS INSTEAD OF SUPER SHENRON OWO
- 33,408
- 8,430
There is the possibility this will end on a cliffhanger
We know that this story ain't over yet. I expect either Super to return or a new anime to take its place once that movie is done.
We know that this story ain't over yet. I expect either Super to return or a new anime to take its place once that movie is done.
- 3,109
- 870
my wet dream is that GP is revealed to be the true omni-king and that, the him in the future didn't die, because of the fact that there is only one Grand Priest (I mean.... we know the omni-king guards survived. But what happened to Grand Priest?) Or Goku leaving with the GP (My top 2 characters)
- 3,082
- 1,141
For sure 131 won't end in a cliff hanger, as it won't be a conclusion like the title suggest. It will just end with an open ended story, for it to be touched upon in the future. What I'm worried about is that the interview suggest that jiren will play an important role in 131, which I hope to god that if he does become relevant again in the future, for them to at least TRY and develop him correctly, for him not to still be the "silent" guy toriyama wanted him to be.
- 1,632
- 351
Zamasu is still alive. That's the cliffhanger ovoRyukama said:
- 898
- 162
I don't actually hate Jiren tbh; I actually defended Jiren's backstory (and still kind of do) when people were bashing it, although it is generic, it still has an emotional touch to it. The main thing is that Goku never really got a proper win against a major villain in Super. The hyping up the new form thing was also giving hope that Goku would atleast get some kind of break against a major villain. At the time of BoG, Goku had a sort of major win against Kid Buu so Goku losing wasn't really that upsetting. Now upto the current arc, Goku didn't get a proper win (Goku lost to Frieza and was only able to fix things because of Whis). All signs pointed at Goku finally getting a win against the main villain of the arc. The ending kind of shit on that, which is what mkes me upset.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
