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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Yes (idc what VSBW says)
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No, due to upscaling from Buuhan by a **** ton compared to how much higher Cabba scales from BoG Goku
BoG SSG Goku = 1 Macrocosm
Goku becomes that strong in SSJ
Then Goku becomes 50x stronger (surpasses his SSJ self in Base)
Then in RoF Goku and Vegeta are equal, stronger than before (unknown value.)
Trained 3 years (stronger than before, unknown value).
Vegeta fights Cabba (they’re equal). So Cabba is like vaguely above 50x the BoG feat.
Comparatively, (Toei) Buuhan = 1 Macrocosm.
(Toei) Kid Buu is stronger, and Goku is about even to slightly superior in SSJ3.
In GT, Base Goku is about = to his previous SSJ3 self.
Or 400x the Buuhan feat.
Base U6 Cabba outright wouldn't get past Base GT Goku from the Black Star Saga, let alone fight SSJ4 Gogeta.
It's less funny though.
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,707
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my goat gtku
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He doesn't have the AP
He doesn't have the speed
He doesn't have the Hax
Yet, he still beats SS4 Gogeta
Team Cabba forever
He doesn't have the speed
He doesn't have the Hax
Yet, he still beats SS4 Gogeta
Team Cabba forever
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Wonder how it would change if Buuhan's feat wasn't included.
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All sparking zero characters and renders, if you wanted to look through them.
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Curious how?
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Interestingly, this guide treats the Z films about as canon as the filler and TV Specials (which are all anime-canon), as when it covers "the main characters of the Dragon Ball TV Series/Cartoon" and the "Locations of the Dragon Ball TV Series/Cartoon," (at least as far as Google Translate has given me) it references the films. Which makes a limited form of sense, because despite how we treat the films, they're canonically all one Timeline, as seen in Fusion Reborn.
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What part is in question? Because it seems pretty straight forward-
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We don't know but very likely not SSJB level.
Most common estimate I've seen is 4,000x base.
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I've seen far higher than that
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From all the estimates I've made it's anywhere from 500x to 32,000x but that's extra muddled by Goku likely getting a power boost from turning back into an adult. So I can see it's probably <32,000x
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Isn't it stated he didn't loose any strength when he turned into a kid?
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Iirc being a kid again didn't nerf his actual power, but it did increase his stamina drain making SSJ3 even less effective.
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I've always felt like 4,000 was reasonable.
It's still got nothing on the god forms that take Goku to a literal different realm of strength. SSJG is like 20,000 at a LOWBALL estimate. Like bare minimum. Using that would make SSJB a 1,000,000x base form multiplier. And UI is vastly superior to that.
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saiyan beyond god is not in the anime? i only watched the movie
BlastX
He/Him- 5,543
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It's muddled because on top of that it's a limit breaker and a potential unlock, so it's hard to say which part is a multiplier and which isn't.
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As well as Gas, Granola, Cell Max and Beerus
Sagambo and 17 aren't that strong in comparison to current characters. Same could be said for Moro
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17 does not show something comparable to the base piccolo and gohan arco moro and
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I think cell max should scale on Gas
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That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low, dude. You have to remember that SSJ3 Goku was ~ Super Saiyan Baby, and then Baby went SSJ2 and SSJ3. Golden Oozaru eclipsed that, and then Goku went SSJ4 with Golden Oozaru Baby being near him in strength (meaning the multiplier from Golden Oozaru to SSJ4 must be comparable to the multiplier gap between SSJ3 and Golden Oozaru itself.)
Like, the actual lowball would be near 10.24 million times Base.
(400 x 2 x 4 is 3200 to get to where SB2 {and thus Golden Oozaru} is from Base, then multiply 3200 on itself to get the bare minimum SSJ4 Multiplier. 3200 times 3200 is 10.24 million).
How it stacks up compared to the God Forms is iffy, though, because SSJ4 is just propelling an already 2-C fighter massively forward whereas SSG is taking a Multi-Solar System/Galaxy fighter to 2-C. If you compared actual numerical minimums, SSJ4 would be superior, but if you got the power jumps as written in the context of their stories I'd say SSG and SSJ4 would be comparable (SSJ4 was compared to the multiplier Anime Vegito gave in the guides and we also know that SSJ2 Baby exceeded him outright, so it's consistent, and Anime Vegito took Galaxy-Multi Galaxy fighters to 2-C like SSG did for Goku in BoG so within the context of their stories, they're comparable as infinite jumps of power. No, SSG being "above Vegito" doesn't matter, because that was referring to Manga Vegito, whose level of power and increase are dwarfed by Anime Vegito.)
Then SSB is a 50x jump off of that, making it the stronger form compared to ordinary SSJ4, and SFPSSJ4 is at least a ten times amp, (likely much higher because it took SSJ4 Goku who couldn't even handle Syn Shenron beyond even Omega Shenron, which is a ten times amp off Syn Shenron himself, so this is just the numerical lowball, not an accurate estimate), so based on that SSB is stronger, but wouldn't be too much so. GT Goku would likely be able to use the Super Dragon Fist to cross the remaining gap (it allowed Base Goku to damage S17, who at that point was stronger than SSJ4 Goku of that arc). SSJ4 would definitely be behind forms like SSBKK, SSBE, and Ultra Instinct/Ego though.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,142
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Remember PUI and UE are limitless unbounded states of mind/forms/techniques
Their power depends on the mindset of the user and thus have no set multiplier
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To be frank, SSJ4 doesn't really have a set multiplier either. It seems to just continually grant more strength the more Ki you have or more control you have. We're explicitly told that the SSJ4 you see most of the time is actually nerfed, because Goku isn't at Full Power, which results in him not performing as well as he should. This is very clearly established with his fight with Baby--The massive jumps in power I listed are the amps it gave a Goku on death's door. Once he gained his full power, he was able to just wallop Baby, and he can continually absorb Ki to grow in strength further, like he did to the Revenge Death Ball. This is really consistent, because when Goku fought Nuova he didn't even really have the Ki to transform at all, and was just forcing his body to do so, and he was fighting comparably, whereas when Goku fought Omega, after getting Ki given to him for his "Super Full Power" he utterly dwarfed everyone else and was directly stated to be so close to Omega the difference in their powers was impossible to tell.
So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.
So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.
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