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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

RedReaper616 said:
To be frank, SSJ4 doesn't really have a set multiplier either. It seems to just continually grant more strength the more Ki you have or more control you have. We're explicitly told that the SSJ4 you see most of the time is actually nerfed, because Goku isn't at Full Power, which results in him not performing as well as he should. This is very clearly established with his fight with Baby--The massive jumps in power I listed are the amps it gave a Goku on death's door. Once he gained his full power, he was able to just wallop Baby, and he can continually absorb Ki to grow in strength further, like he did to the Revenge Death Ball. This is really consistent, because when Goku fought Nuova he didn't even really have the Ki to transform at all, and was just forcing his body to do so, and he was fighting comparably, whereas when Goku fought Omega, after getting Ki given to him for his "Super Full Power" he utterly dwarfed everyone else and was directly stated to be so close to Omega the difference in their powers was impossible to tell.

So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.
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Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
 
BlastX said:
Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
Click to expand...
No, Gohan explicitly states their powers were similar. Omega also outright wasn't able to hurt Goku due to the resistances Goku had to all of his hax, and was only mildly stronger, they were going back and forth with Goku on the backfoot, something which we see visually when Omega does his hand raise wave, which easily knocked around everyone but Goku. Goku only becomes unable to do anything after he burns basically all his Ki on the Dragon Hammer/Super Dragon Fist. Super Full Power Goku thrashed Syn Shenron, and yes it was necessary because normal SSJ4 Goku (with virtually no Ki) was being utterly dominated, but all of that I noted (in a prior comment).

EDIT: Rewatching, GT Goku is on a much bigger backfoot physically, so not "moderately" weaker, as Goku kept getting hit before he could collect his bearings and even attack. However, Goku is still relative to Omega based on Gohan's statement regardless.
 
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Huesito88 said:
So you don't buy how Buuhans feat is handled and you also disagree with infinite size cosmology?
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i have been around since the loungemoviecodec days debating GT feats I've seen all the arguments to be had but it seems to me ever since DBS got their new feats DBGT is now suddenly getting highballed to keep up with Super

No one back in the day was arguing for Multiversal GT and last i checked GT hasnt had a show since then.

Buuhan was screaming to the point where he was going to collapse the dimensions not sure how people are now arguing for multiversal Buuhan because that's something only he can do

Cosmology isn't the problem it's scaling GT to have infinite speed to a movie which(like most movies before BOG) doesn't fit in the timeline.

But i'll agree to disagree it's not that big of a deal to me.
 
GodOfThunder said:
Cosmology isn't the problem it's scaling GT to have infinite speed to a movie which(like most movies before BOG) doesn't fit in the timeline..
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The Buuhan feat being treated as 2-C is all thanks to @Ultima_Reality (whom is definitely NOT one of the GT guys that randomly wanted Multiversal DBZ all of a sudden in response to Super) making the crt and getting it accepted

Pikkon and Goku traveling Heaven is one of the main feats of infinite speed, it's not movie only
 
Huesito88 said:
The Buuhan feat being treated as 2-C is all thanks to @Ultima_Reality (whom is definitely NOT one of the GT guys that randomly wanted Multiversal DBZ all of a sudden in response to Super) making the crt and getting it accepted

Pikkon and Goku traveling Heaven is one of the main feats of infinite speed, it's not movie only
Click to expand...
i see but even then the point remains the same it doesn't make any sense claiming Base Goku and anyone who scales to him has infinite speed is ridiculous
 
Mr. Popo's filler has pretty neat stuff when it comes to the martial arts side of Dragon Ball. Also, they're just very charming. Watching Kid Goku try to solve these problems and learn the foundations of Ki we take for granted is just so riveting.
 
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