Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Sus]

and gogeta is > ss4 goku in base, stack yet another probably larger ss4 amp on top

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Isn't Super Saiyan 4 just a compressed Super Saiyan Great Ape?

 

[SlendVeny]

Isn't Super Saiyan 4 just a compressed Super Saiyan Great Ape?

No

 

[RedReaper616]

Isn't Super Saiyan 4 just a compressed Super Saiyan Great Ape?

SSJ4, despite requiring SSJ and Oozaru, is described as being a “separate species” of transformation that acts as a “awakening of a Saiyan’s potential.” It's not a multiplier or actually dependent on prior form powers, and is more in line with the ritual Gohan went through.

 

[Sus]

aside from SS4, SSG and UI/UE
what other forms grant astronomical boosts compared to base?

 

[Damage3245]

aside from SS4, SSG and UI/UE
what other forms grant astronomical boosts compared to base?

Being empowered by the Dragon Balls, if you consider that a form going by Granolah & Gas.

 

[SlendVeny]

aside from SS4, SSG and UI/UE
what other forms grant astronomical boosts compared to base?

Canonically: Ultimate/Potential Unleash, Orange/Beast, Golden Frieza, Black Frieza, SSJ Rage, SSJB, SSJBE, SSJ Rose, LSSJ, Fusion, Dragon Ball Empowered, GoD form, and Merus' Angel state

 

[TiltedFN]

W GT glaze

 

[SlendVeny]

W GT glaze

Base Cabba GG or whatever the meme is rn

 

[Sus]

Ultimate/Potential Unleash

what's the biggest gap from base to ultimate that we know of? considering that base gohan isn't weak

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

what's the biggest gap from base to ultimate that we know of? considering that base gohan isn't weak

Well, iirc

Ssj kids>base Gohan
Base Gotenks> ssj kids (PRE ROSAT)
Base Gotenks (POST ROSAT)> ssj Gotenks (PRE ROSAT)
Ssj3 Gotenks= 400x base
Ultimate>ssj3 Gotenks

So base to ultimate is around 20,000x from base by simply scaling purely from Gotenks

 

[Sus]

Canonically: Ultimate/Potential Unleash, Orange/Beast, Golden Frieza, Black Frieza, SSJ Rage, SSJB, SSJBE, SSJ Rose, LSSJ, Fusion, Dragon Ball Empowered, GoD form, and Merus' Angel state

ngl most of these aren't even that impressive
toppo was = blue vegeta, in god form he's =< blue evolution, barely a 20x amp

frieza is fair, angel power is just angels not holding back
i didn't count blue/rose because it's 2 forms combined
LSS is fair maybeeee? it's roughly an SSG gap??

Well, iirc

Ssj kids>base Gohan
Base Gotenks> ssj kids (PRE ROSAT)
Base Gotenks (POST ROSAT)> ssj Gotenks (PRE ROSAT)
Ssj3 Gotenks= 400x base
Ultimate>ssj3 Gotenks

So base to ultimate is around 20,000x from base by simply scaling purely from Gotenks

after training with the z sword, base gohan was >= base goku iirc
but yeah applying the gotenks goofy scaling it gets bumped up really alot
SS2 goku is 100x his base
SS3 gotenks is 20,000x that
gohan is > gotenks
2 million times is huge, but it's kinda consistent, because in super it bumped gohan to SSB level

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

LSS is fair maybeeee? it's roughly an SSG gap??

LSSJ let Broly go from Base Gohan level to easily beating him in SSJ2, so it's about x5,000

 

[Sus]

LSSJ let Broly go from Base Gohan level to easily beating him in SSJ2, so it's about x5,000

oh i was talking about canon broly's green haired form
he went from being somewhat SS1 gogeta level to not too far behind SSB
but broly got insane reactive evolution so idk

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Has Luffy already done the CRT to level up Majin Buu?

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

When will VBW accept SSG as the infinite multiplier it is

 

[Sus]

When will VBW accept SSG as the infinite multiplier it is

is there proof of that? nothing in-verse ever indicates it being an infinite amp

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

is there proof of that? nothing in-verse ever indicates it being an infinite amp

VBW wise, it's a tier 3 to tier 2 jump

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Has Luffy already done the CRT to level up Majin Buu?

No, it will happen as soon as the first episode of Dragon Ball Daima comes out, i want to do something very different with a lot of evidence.

 

[Sus]

after training with the z sword, base gohan was >= base goku iirc
but yeah applying the gotenks goofy scaling it gets bumped up really alot
SS2 goku is 100x his base
SS3 gotenks is 20,000x that
gohan is > gotenks
2 million times is huge, but it's kinda consistent, because in super it bumped gohan to SSB level

2C buu saga gohan

 

[SlendVeny]

ngl most of these aren't even that impressive
toppo was = blue vegeta, in god form he's =< blue evolution, barely a 20x amp

I forgorp

LSS is fair maybeeee? it's roughly an SSG gap??

Base Broly < SSG Vegeta, LSSJ Broly > SSJ Gogeta

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Base Broly < SSG Vegeta, LSSJ Broly > SSJ Gogeta

Ehh, isn't Ikari Broly only about x10 stronger than his base form?

 

[Sus]

I forgorp

Base Broly < SSG Vegeta, LSSJ Broly > SSJ Gogeta

base broly is 1/10th of his ikari state
u gotta factor in how broly grows tens of times in mere moments

 

[Sus]

Ehh, isn't Ikari Broly only about x10 stronger than his base form?

u mean stronger?

 

[Sus]

too late

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

whats the current scaling for anime DBS?
wasnt cell max < broly?

No, it only was if it had been completely finished according to Akira Toriyama.

Once completed, it was supposed to be a metahuman that not even Broly would be able to beat, but he was forcibly activated early, and turned into a uncontrollable monster. He screams and flails around in a huge body with hideous coloring, so I felt a bit sorry for the voice actor, actually. He is a veteran voice actor too. I'm so sorry.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

When will VBW accept SSG as the infinite multiplier it is

When the Wiki becomes lucid

 

[Sus]

No, it only was if it had been completely finished according to Akira Toriyama.

yeah that's what i said
the cell max we see is < broly

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

yeah that's what i said
the cell max we see is < broly

That is if he hadn't been awakened in a hurry.

 

[Spinoirr]

That is if he hadn't been awakened in a hurry.

Hell in the Manga Beast Gohan was in a beam crash against Cell Max too

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Hell in the Manga Beast Gohan was in a beam crash against Cell Max too

I saw, Cell Max needed third parties to be defeated, if it was just Gohan alone there would be no way for him to finish it, Cell Max is a monster.

At least i see him being superior to Jiren

 

[SlendVeny]

Ehh, isn't Ikari Broly only about x10 stronger than his base form?

It's not explicitly stated, but pretty much.

 

[GodOfThunder]

What part is in question? Because it seems pretty straight forward-

GT isn't low multiversal or infinite speed

 

[CryoTheMayo]

speaking of transformation multipliers, would golden frieza be ~ ss1 since frieza fought beyond god goku in base and ssb in gold?

No. Because Golden Freeza was far stronger than Blue Goku until the stamina problems kicked in. If we argue that Base Freeza is equivalent to BG/SSG Goku then I'd think Golden would be analogous to a form like SS3 due to similar stamina problems.

 

[RedReaper616]

GT isn't low multiversal

I disagree with this. Buuhan’s feat is blatant and GT upscales.

or infinite speed

I agree with this.

 

[Huesito88]

GT isn't low multiversal or infinite speed

So you don't buy how Buuhans feat is handled and you also disagree with infinite size cosmology?

 

[BlastX]

To be frank, SSJ4 doesn't really have a set multiplier either. It seems to just continually grant more strength the more Ki you have or more control you have. We're explicitly told that the SSJ4 you see most of the time is actually nerfed, because Goku isn't at Full Power, which results in him not performing as well as he should. This is very clearly established with his fight with Baby--The massive jumps in power I listed are the amps it gave a Goku on death's door. Once he gained his full power, he was able to just wallop Baby, and he can continually absorb Ki to grow in strength further, like he did to the Revenge Death Ball. This is really consistent, because when Goku fought Nuova he didn't even really have the Ki to transform at all, and was just forcing his body to do so, and he was fighting comparably, whereas when Goku fought Omega, after getting Ki given to him for his "Super Full Power" he utterly dwarfed everyone else and was directly stated to be so close to Omega the difference in their powers was impossible to tell.

So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.

Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.

 

[Huesito88]

Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.

"Dragon Hammer" Bruh!

 

[BlastX]

Sorry should I have called it Dragon Kamehameha X10?

 

[SlendVeny]

"Dragon Hammer" Bruh!

Dragon Hammer is a pretty solid combo, idk what you mean.