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Yeah that argument i agree with you, but the other stuff seems okay, but then again, a direct translation from the two scenes in the op would clear everything up completely i feel
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Dragon Ball: Infinite Universe
- Thread starter Reiner04
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Yeah but that is the point, we don't know when the gt timeline branched, we simply don't have enough information to say that it branched in a point were cosmology was defined and wouldn't change
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This might help
Here's an official timeline wall from Shueisha which shows that they are sorta of in the same timeline. Perhaps GT and Super being a sort of "what if" branch.
Stuff from GT cosmology being used in a guidebook that has info about super. (Sugoroku space on page 35)
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- Thread starter
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Doesn't matter omega, it had same cosmology at some point in Time is more than enough. And I wouldn't be supporting may, could, possibly, I think, etc.
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Unless you want to say that gt and super are in the same timeline i don't think that this timeline is a really good evidence
"It had", aka it may not currently
Ok,let us agree to disagree then, back and forth is going nowhere
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• they aren't valid, it's a poor attempt at trying to ignore the literal description of the observable " Infinitely expanding and galaxy illuminations Ten of thousands of light years.. Hundreds of millions of light years.." and then you have the literal statement of the infinite space being given right after. The examples given by tht banned acct are disingenuous and ignore context of the other literal scans saying tht the living universe is an endless space tht envelops all celestial bodies. Which is congruent with the observable infinitely expanding universe inside of a infinite space tht surrounds it. It also literally ignores yakon planet being from infinite/endless part of the universe.
You already been notified, debunked and put on about the scans. Your just continously not putting 2 and 2 together and for no actual good reason, fam.
• the way a phrased is used is related to where it is used cus language is contextual and Japanese is VERY contextual. The Japanese supports and blatantly says the living universe is infinite, it gives literal context via "Infinitely expanding and galaxy illuminations Ten of thousands of light years.. Hundreds of millions of light years.." , in a guide about the world of db and every other guide speaks about an observable and unobservable universe.
• it's not being used metaphorically nor poetically. It's literal.
• the universe been infinite since stating to be such, dbs, dbgt nd dbz all follow the same cosmology (same guide states living world is endless in size tht envelops all celestial bodies . To quote luffyruffy: " Bro, the cosmology is the same, both for DBGT, DBZ, and DBS (which only increased the amount of universes and timelines) everything else is the same, the same map is also the same during the franchise, basically what changes are some fillers that Akira toriyama decided to put in dbz for the anime not to catch up with the manga".
At this point, you fr just arguing for argument sakes. I'm going to bed on that note.
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Preach
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Which being in existence had the capability to change the Universe to finite from Infinite in dragonball? We are going with assumption*assumption*assumption at this point if we don't realize it, reducing the credibility of one's arguement to sheer extent. There is no such character have capability to do so and no reason to do so. So it's a headcanon. Agree to disagree.
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Where did these subs come from? Crunchyroll, Blu-ray, fansub?
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And I think if Atreus can turn into a bear then he can turn into the Kuchisake-onna.
Real talk, is there anything supporting such an assumption? So far we've seen that the decisions that create branching timelines do not affect the core structure whatsoever and the base cosmology has stayed the same regardless of continuity (from what I can gather, feel free to correct me here).
So it can be different, yeah. Now, is there any reason to assume or interpret that it is?
DivineAura44
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"B-but the e-events are d-different."
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Fan sub (I think since it's from an unofficial site). If you want just the japanese then its at episode 29 at around 12:05. Funnily enough dub also gives boundless but probably best if someone here translatesd it like @omegabronic said.
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Da3ggman
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Jesus, I come back to the thread after a day and people are arguing if GT and Super have different cosmologies? If they both come from Z, and no event in either is shown to actively change their cosmologies (i.e. Someone wishing on shenron or something), then they have to be the same. Here's an example of what I mean: let's say you have a weapon that splits timelines and you fire it off at the world. In the two timelines, the Earth is still the exact same, since the weapon isn't shown to change it, but the events on earth would be different.
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This scan here comes from a site where I watched pirated, it may have been translated by a fan
This is the site where I also see some episodes
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This scan here comes from a site where I watched pirated, it may have been translated by a fan
This is the site where I also see some episodes
Watch Dragon Ball Super Episode 29 English Subbed at Gogoanime
Reuniting the franchise's iconic characters, Dragon Ball Super will follow the aftermath of Goku's fierce battle with Majin Buu as he attempts to maintain earth's fragile peace. ... at *********www3.gogoanimes.fi
Uhh I don't think it's a good idea to link it.
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Okay, I'll delete it then.
DivineAura44
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"B-but if t-the events are different, c-couldn't something have c-changed the timeline?"
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This scan here comes from a site where I watched pirated, it may have been translated by a fan
This is the site where I also see some episodes
Watch Dragon Ball Super Episode 29 English Subbed at Gogoanime
Reuniting the franchise's iconic characters, Dragon Ball Super will follow the aftermath of Goku's fierce battle with Majin Buu as he attempts to maintain earth's fragile peace. ... at *********
It's a violation I think to link a pirate site (?), You should edit it.
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Yes, I did that now, I didn't know about that rule, I apologize to everyone.
Da3ggman
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It's all cool.
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I agree, to say that cosmology has changed is just conjecture
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@Reiner we should put the Medeus how agreeing?
Da3ggman
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Probably should keep him as neutral, but in parentheses put leaning towards agree
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I understand
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Apparently the infinite universe topic has come up before a few times and been rejected; I'll need a bit of time to dig through old threads and see what the consensus was in the past.
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I've already gone through some old threads and the reason why you disagree about the Universe being infinite is about having only 4 Galaxies and the Universe having an edge, practically these are your arguments past, though some treat it as hyperbole.
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i dont think damage was arguing any of that here
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Yep. Although two main difference would be the accepting of GT as a branch and the statement from Shenron which brings more validity to the guides to be used.
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the shenron statement would be better if someone took the original audio and translated it, the current one in the op is from a fansub, i feel like if that happens things will get more clear
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I agree with the universe being infinite
I was skeptical on the shared cosmology across parallel timelines but after seeing that guidebook I agree
I was skeptical on the shared cosmology across parallel timelines but after seeing that guidebook I agree
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According to Herms, Chouzenshu 4 says that Dragon ball has infinite Galaxies.
Apparently, Akira Toriyama opted for the option of Dragon ball Super having countless galaxies based on the premise of what Jaco said.
Just remembering that the Chouzenshuus were directly supervised by Akira Toriyama, they were made in 2014 to introduce dragon ball Super.
So they are valid.
A Dragon ball fan reviewed Chouzenshuu and it already shows the universe of Dragon ball Super:
Scan translation: Galaxy
A cluster of stars at one location in the Universe. United stars form nebulae and several nebulae together form a Galaxy. The 4 Kaiohs who are responsible for the North, South, East and West govern these Galaxies. The division between North, South, East and West was created by the Gods and Kings of Heaven to control/supervise the infinite number of Galaxies in Outer Space.
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re reading the thread, these are my most points of contention right now, reposting so that staff can see it easier since this was is page 2 and 3 and now there is more pages
The counter argument being used for the universe having an edge is that it is the edge of the "observable/light part" of the universe and that after that there is an infinite darkness that is infinite in size, but when we see the universe from an outside perspective we see no greater darkness surrounding a light part of it, which would disqualify this said darkness from even being a thing at all, some brought up how we don't see the other dimensions of the macrocosm, but since they are other dimensions they would be in other planes of existance and wouldn't be seeable from an outside perspective, plus the model used to say that they would be seeable is never used in the dbz manga and dbs anime so the series depiction takes precedence over it anyway,
it says
that it is talking about any observable universe in place of the entire universe, and we have no reason to believe that it is talking about an specific part of it, which is further corroborated by the fact that the whole point of bulma wanting to go to the center of the universe in the first place was to be able to scan the entirety of space to search for the super dragon balls
the statement itself never specified
The point is there there is an edge, bulma is talking about the area she has to scan in search of the super dragon balls, if the universe was infinite changing position wouldn't matter for scaning the entire area since the distance would be the same since it would be infiniteScan 2
Super Anime - Episode 29:
Combat Matches Are a Go! The Captain Is Someone Stronger Than Goku
"Combat Matches Are a Go! The Captain Is Someone Stronger Than Goku" (格かく闘とう試し合あい開かい催さい決けっ定てい！主しゅ将しょうは悟ご空くうより強つよいヤツ, Kakutō Shiai Kaisai Kettei! Shushō wa Gokū yori Tsuyoi Yatsu, lit. "It's Settled: We're Holding a Martial Arts Match! The Team Captain's Even Stronger Than Goku") is the...
dragonball.fandom.com
There are places beyond the edge of the Observable Universe that we see in Super since it's littered with stars and light. See the guide scans below for more details.
Click to expand...
The counter argument being used for the universe having an edge is that it is the edge of the "observable/light part" of the universe and that after that there is an infinite darkness that is infinite in size, but when we see the universe from an outside perspective we see no greater darkness surrounding a light part of it, which would disqualify this said darkness from even being a thing at all, some brought up how we don't see the other dimensions of the macrocosm, but since they are other dimensions they would be in other planes of existance and wouldn't be seeable from an outside perspective, plus the model used to say that they would be seeable is never used in the dbz manga and dbs anime so the series depiction takes precedence over it anyway,
it says
that it is talking about any observable universe in place of the entire universe, and we have no reason to believe that it is talking about an specific part of it, which is further corroborated by the fact that the whole point of bulma wanting to go to the center of the universe in the first place was to be able to scan the entirety of space to search for the super dragon balls
the statement itself never specified
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Basically Omega is just repeating their points that were refuted, here's a little word from @Zamasu_Chan debunking this once and for all, I'd like @Zamasu_Chan 's words to be enjoyed with a sweet taste in the mouth.Wait, she who? Any-who going over the tings, I'd like to throw in my two cents.
I think the infinite light and darkness thing is pretty mundane to argue about. It's only another way of saying the universe is infinite, so no reason to waste time on minor details.
Next is the shot we get of universe 6 and 7 and how we see boarders on them. Yes, they look like they are contained in a "bubble" but you have to consider two things. A, we can't comprehend what infinity looks like especially artistically. They are drawn like how you'd see a typical collection of universes. And B, having spatio-temporal barriers wouldn’t contradict anything. Infinite 3D is always going to be lower than finite 4D so looking at it from that perspective, which I'm sure is the general consensus since we can't visualize space-time, should be no problem.
Then we have the center and edge arguments. I don't want to dwell on this, but imagine this. A big bang has an explosion radius of infinity. It has a starting point in the center and everything outwardly expands to an infinite distance unpon detonation. Looking at it this way is simple.
Infinity can have an end in the sense that you can traverse it in a specific amount of time. It's how we treat infinite speed, characters reaching the end of an infinite distance in a finite time.
And to briefly go over the super dragon ball radar thing, you can argue that it's range makes the universe look finite at a certain perspective because of higher dimensional range stuff, since 4D can make infinite 3D look like nothing. I can't go into too much detail cause I gotta go in a secbut you get the idea.
Well, I'm going to give you a few words now, Bulma is heavily insulted about going to the center of the Universe, and Jaco mentions that it's impossible to find the center of the Universe, as he has never seen any center, you can understand that when he speaks, I repeat , Bulma's word should not be taken seriously, because she doesn't know the size of the Universe, we take Jaco's word into account, since he travels throughout the universe, but he never found a center of the Universe or anything like that, that's not it is demystification for the universe to be infinite
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It doesn't make any sense to say that they're at the edge of the Observable Universe, yeah. Earth is literally in the center of the Observable Universe.
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just to clarify, you disagree with the argument that the said "edge" is talking about the edge of an "observable" universe that Eath is in?
DivineAura44
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Not all of Omegas points have been refuted, more just minimalized to a probably not.
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So what you're saying is Earth is at the center of the Observable Universe and at the edge of the Universe? This makes no sense.
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I disagree with that part, yeah.
Center of the Observable Universe and Edge of the Universe can both be true.
Observable Universe is not the same as the Universe.
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