According to the matter they have the same living world, afterlife and kaioshin realm. They have the same cosmology from z.
But even without gt, there is enough evidence for infinite dbs as posted by op and this thread has shown.
Wasn't it brought up that the translation of the statements for DBS is questionable?
Just the shenron one and also, the observable and unobservable clarification isn't contradicted and is the true interpretation of the living world. It's all congruent. With or without gt, fam.
You'd think
I agree
According to a director of DB, he claims that it is correct that the universe is infinite and has no doubt to be questioned.
Another databook citing this
Link where it was mentioned:
Kanzentai - Translations
Kanzentai ~ providing detailed and researched information, and media for true DragonBall fans everywhere.web.archive.org
another guide
宇宙のしくみ
Structure of the Universe
地球にとどまらず、宇宙のさまざまな星々を舞台に繰り広げられる孫悟空たちの大活劇。悟空たちが住んでいる「地球」は、DB世界では「北の銀河」に属しており、「4032の緑の877惑星」と表現することができる。
Not limited to the Earth, the stage of the big adventure of Son Goku and the others unfolds on various planets/stars of the Universe. "Earth" where Goku and others live belongs to "North Galaxy" in the DB world, It can be described as "4032-Green-877-Planet".
この世全体は球体をしており、さらに破壊神ビルスによって、この広大な宇宙そのものは全部で12あると言われ、悟空たちが冒険を繰り広げている宇宙は「第七宇宙」に属している、と伝えられた。
This entire world is spherical, furthermore, Beerus, the God of Destruction, said that there are 12 vast universes in total and that the universe in which Goku and his friends are having an adventure belongs to the "Seventh Universe".
*Note: The term "この世" can mean "This world" in contrast to "あの世" which means "other-world" as the land of the dead. So in the context of Dragon Ball, it might refer to just the world of the living. So when you see "This world" here, it might refer to "World of Living"
この世はどこまでも果てしない広がりを見せ、DB世界は人知を超えた途方もないスケールを持つ世界観であることがわかるだろう。
"This World" shows an endless expanse, you will find that the DB world holds a worldview with a tremendous scale beyond human understanding.
*Note: For anyone that is wondering, the term here is "果てしない広がり" which can literally mean "something that spreads out without an end"
この第七宇宙は、サイヤ人やフリーザ一味、魔導師ビビディが生み出した魔人ブウなどにより、何百もの星が破壊された過去を持つ。
In the Seventh Universe, the Saiya-jin and Frieza's army, and the Majin Buu brought forth by the mage Bibidi, destroyed hundreds of planets in the past.
また、悟空たちのふるさと・地球を含め、第七宇宙で起こるさまざまな出来事は、界王界の界王や界王神たちによって、中立的な立場で見守られ続けているのだ。
Also, including Goku and the other's hometowns, on Earth, the various events of the Seventh Universe are being continuously watched from a neutral standpoint by the Kaiō and Kaioshins Kaiōshin of the Kaiō World.
Translation credits:
guide name chozenshu 4 I think
Full quote from the guide
Exactly, there isn't/shouldnt be any doubt.
But when both of them has been accepted to be branched Timeline that are branching from the same Timeline, it having same cosmological structure as main Timeline does makes sense unless there is a proof that Timeline at some point in time when the branching of GT happened was different than current one which wouldn't make sense as it'll imply that DBS Universe has been reduced from Infinite to finite.
The cosmology that branching from a same structure to be different is way more extraordinary than being otherwise, a sagan standard.
That change to accept them as a branched timeline only happened very recently and I'd hardly consider it an objective fact.
The story between parallel Timelines largely don't stay same and we have to go with what has been told, that's the reason for them to be shown, beerus could be existing in the GT while not being of same nature as of main Timeline, characters vary as their past gets affected but same thing do not get considered when a entirely cosmology involve with little to no reason. If it was same at some point in time, then it being different at other point makes it less likely.
Well I mean Beerus never seeked out Goku because he never got SSG. And obviously no God powers = no Zero Mortal Plan. We aren't arguing the events of GT and Super are parallel, just the cosmology of the universes.
There are endless possibilities, a certain timeline does not exist the concept of a God of destruction, but it's in GT it's kind of referring to the existence of Gods of Destruction like Omega saying that he became a God of Destruction, Ludo, also called Great Ludo or God of Destruction Ludo (破壊神ルード)
I mean, looking at the doc made by sans015, it seens that most of the phrases used are not saying infinite at all outside of one, i would say that this alongside the contradictions pointed earlier would make finite more consistant
Translation can change to things to sound better for the reader, it is pretty normal for this to happen, but also from what i see, the word "infinite" in japanese can be used in terms that makes it non literal, in a figurative way, i think that it is more important to ser the phrase context in japanese rather than the word translation to english
This is a falacy, just because they have some things in common, doesn't mean that they have everything in common, it was decided to not scale cosmology in the thread that made gt canon
No, all the translations are exactly same take it his or of @Executor_N0 , it's his arguement that all of them are flowery.
Actually no, they just called themselves God of Destruction, by no mean they are actual god, like an episode in Z called Cell God of Destruction
I'm on about, I don't treat them like real Gods, but it's possible that the concept exists within the verse, but it's not explored.
Because that is how the phrases themselves are used in japanese, this is not much about the guide specificaly, but the way they are used in japanese, he even brought a dictionary to show that the phrase used in mostly used metaphorically, the translation being the same doesn't matter much for the point
If the events of the story can be different between them, why can't the cosmology be different too?
" Comparing literary hyperboles about emotional depth to an informative guidebook description is actually laughable.
I do not remember deciding it myself? As I said, if it is branched then there would be no reason for being different cosmological structure just like how cosmology of alternate timeline in ben 10 is acceptable for main timeline already.
? Japanese and english are languages bronic, they spoke and written differently not the lines or sentences they're making. It's equal in translation it's equal in what it means, the arguement from subjective belief is derailing.
I think we shouldn't take his word for it, he's a banned person, about being poetry or hyperbole the author's opinion is worth more here, where in several guides it is quoted as infinite and its extension expanding infinitely. I really don't understand, why do people stoop to the point of saying that it's a poem by the author's word?
" But when both of them has been accepted to be branched Timeline that are branching from the same Timeline, it having same cosmological structure as main Timeline does makes sense unless there is a proof that Timeline at some point in time when the branching of GT happened was different than current one which wouldn't make sense as it'll imply that DBS Universe has been reduced from Infinite to finite. "
the story even if gets slightly altered turn to a entirely new set of events, but if cosmology is same at some point in time, is there any reason to assume it would be different at other? The Cosmology unless has been altered by someone later on which as I have said before is likely impossible as there is no such character or series of events supporting the alteration of cosmology itself by anyone.
I'm asking what the proof is for the cosmology to be the same between them.
The story taking place in the same universe, just different timelines.
They're branching from main Timeline, proving them to have same cosmological structure in the past and so unless the changes has been done to cosmology by some cosmic being (hypothetical) it'll be same.
I'm neutral but I must ask, is there an egregious difference to consider them different? They're accepted as alternate timelines and so far seem to show the same core aspects of the cosmology.
Because the cosmology is literally shown to be the same. The events are explicitly different. Don't do this, you are clearly arguing out of bad faith, I don't have to explain this to you.
THANK U
Bro, the cosmology is the same, both for DBGT, DBZ, and DBS (which only increased the amount of universes and timelines) everything else is the same, the same map is also the same during the franchise, basically what changes are some fillers that Akira toriyama decided to put in dbz for the anime not to catch up with the manga.
www.kanzenshuu.com
Not really, the examples are still valid
i was talking specifically about all the other scans and not this one, this one i disagree with him, i was talking about the other ones
the way a phrase is used is not realated to where it is used, your point doesn't make much sense
"Straightforward"? If the way it is phrased is metaphorical in meaning, they i wouldn't say so, also a guide can use metaphorical an poetical langauge to convey any information to estimulate the imagination of the reader, this is a very common thing acctually
It branches from the very begining, since the very creation of the timeline, it isn't so much as "it'll imply that DBS Universe has been reduced from Infinite to finite.", but rather that one became infinite while other didn't, also this assumes that the timeline's universe was infinitw from the get go, which we have no proof of
in ben 10's case, it is because of 2 reasons, 1 the timelines branch after ben got the omnitrix, aka after the universe was a thing already, 2 we don't assume that all of them have the same cosmology, but the feats that happen don't change in anything even if they are different, so it is not much relevant to talk about
Some expressions in japanese may not exist in english and vice versa, same thing about how some phrases are used and about how some words may be used differently in meaning
Being banned but was given permisson from a super mod to show the arguments here, i think we are safe to consider it
Just trying to make sure I have the full extent of the evidence presented.
Celestial sapiens change the Universe all the Time and that "may cosmology vary" applies to all fiction equally, even if branching started happening yesterday. If you want to have doubt on 1000 years ago thing then have a doubt on yesterday, no one Stopping you, it's subjective in your part and I already said I disagree.
Subjective.
