- 20,106
- 10,899
The time scroll showing the cell games tells me otherwise because he could easily see where they were going in the first place.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
The time scroll showing the cell games tells me otherwise because he could easily see where they were going in the first place.
There’s countless variants of timelines and just stated to being a past doesn’t mean it’s not a different timeline like how future trunks is confirmed to be the future version of the trunks of the main canon timeline thats not a valid point he wouldn’t know which cell games to go to because there’s countless different cell games dk what you don’t understand about itNot to mention it's confirmed to be the exact same version of the Cell Games DBH Vegeta previously went through, so the infinite timelines stuff doesn't matter. If he knows how to go back home (which he should), he would know how to go to the Cell Games again if he had the speed necessary.
I might aswell post some of them here:I don't have time to look over everything but from what I can see, the thread is currently discussing Immesurable Speed? That's a bit above my pay grade especially since I don't know the verse like that but can someone post the current arguments for and against so I can evalute it to some degree.
If you can have that much speed and not be able to time travel into any place you already know of in any point in time in between a starting & last point in time due to lack of experience, then we were fools to not point this out in our Speed page as something that can't be an anti-feat. This rules are completely made up to me.An anti-feat argument was brought up about Vegeta needing Chronoa to go to his own history, implying that he can't do it own his own. However, my argument is that Vegeta simply doesn't know the specific destination of his history in space-time due to being just recruited (he doesn't even exactly know what a history even is at that point), with space-time destinations being an actual established thing in the verse, thus not an actual anti-feat. As I've explained, him being native to that timeline doesn't somehow grant him the info of his history's destination in space-time, it's not the same thing as finding your own house since you're navigating through an endless amount of other near identical histories. And as for the Time Scroll, him looking at a recording of his own history on a scroll doesn't grant him the actual destination of his history in space-time. Him "supposedly" knowing it's his own history doesn't change the fact that he would still need to navigate through space-time and know the actual destination of his own history if he went on his own. And to add the icing on the cake, Trunks (who's been in the Time Patrol longer than Vegeta at this point) who looked at and used the exact same Time Scroll as Vegeta did and went with Vegeta to that history only realized that they were in the Cell Games era after he actually went to that history and saw Cell there. Not to mention the fact that the Time Scroll literally only showed a giant crater in the ground so once again, there's no proof that Vegeta actually knew which history he was heading to when even Trunks didn't know at first and he used the exact same scroll that Vegeta did lol. Him not going to that history on his own is simply a case of him not knowing where to go, not an anti-feat.
your message is kind of confusingIf you can have that much speed and not be able to time travel into any place you already know of in any point in time in between a starting & last point in time due to lack of experience, then we were fools to not point this out in our Speed page as something that can't be an anti-feat. This rules are completely made up to me.
Hey Efi, the entire point was that Vegeta didn’t know where the hell he was supposed to go, he had no way of knowing when he’d have reached the right timeline. Assuming he wasn’t an infinite distance away from it at which point the question becomes if he even has enough stamina to cross that distance.If you can have that much speed and not be able to time travel into any place you already know of in any point in time in between a starting & last point in time due to lack of experience
Basically this there’s countless different timelines of cell games so vegeta wouldn’t know which one is the correct timeline despite knowing it’s cell games because there’s countless identical timelines and he’s a new time patrollerHey Efi, the entire point was that Vegeta didn’t know where the hell he was supposed to go, he had no way of knowing when he’d have reached the right timeline. Assuming he wasn’t an infinite distance away from it at which point the question becomes if he even has enough stamina to cross that distance.
He didn't show any proof that it's a different timeline than his own, and my issue is with the idea established here:Hey Efi, the entire point was that Vegeta didn’t know where the hell he was supposed to go, he had no way of knowing when he’d have reached the right timeline. Assuming he wasn’t an infinite distance away from it at which point the question becomes if he even has enough stamina to cross that distance.
This seems fine to me.I might aswell post some of them here:
The Dark Dragon Balls physically flew beyond space-time to different eras of time. They were visually shown to have physically flown away without any showings of portals, they were explicitly stated to have flown away without any mention of portals and Dragon Balls by default use physical flight for traveling, even the strongest DB's in the verse do it to travel to other universes. All the evidence clearly points that the Dark Dragon Balls physically flew beyond time. The argument against this was that the feat was done "off-screen" but we can clearly see the DDB's physically flying away on-screen so that claim is false.
The second feat is Chronoa, Trunks and Vegeta flying from the Cell era to the Buu era. You can clearly see them flying in the Crack of Time towards to Xeno Goku's location, so it's heavily implied that they actually flew that distance, thus physically flying to different eras. The argument against this is that they used the Crack of Time itself to travel from the Cell era to the Buu era, in the sense that the CoT itself funtions in a way that it could be used for time travel purposes. However, this was never actually established in-verse to be an actual function of the Crack of Time itself from what I've seen so the whole argument is literally based on headcanon. Adding a major new function to an important part of the cosmology with nothing but baseless assumptions/headcanon is a big no in my book.
An anti-feat argument was brought up about Vegeta needing Chronoa to go to his own history, implying that he can't do it own his own. However, my argument is that Vegeta simply doesn't know the specific destination of his history in space-time due to being just recruited (he doesn't even exactly know what a history even is at that point), with space-time destinations being an actual established thing in the verse, thus not an actual anti-feat. As I've explained, him being native to that timeline doesn't somehow grant him the info of his history's destination in space-time, it's not the same thing as finding your own house since you're navigating through an endless amount of other near identical histories. And as for the Time Scroll, him looking at a recording of his own history on a scroll doesn't grant him the actual destination of his history in space-time. Him "supposedly" knowing it's his own history doesn't change the fact that he would still need to navigate through space-time and know the actual destination of his own history if he went on his own. And to add the icing on the cake, Trunks (who's been in the Time Patrol longer than Vegeta at this point) who looked at and used the exact same Time Scroll as Vegeta did and went with Vegeta to that history only realized that they were in the Cell Games era after he actually went to that history and saw Cell there. Not to mention the fact that the Time Scroll literally only showed a giant crater in the ground so once again, there's no proof that Vegeta actually knew which history he was heading to when even Trunks didn't know at first and he used the exact same scroll that Vegeta did lol. Him not going to that history on his own is simply a case of him not knowing where to go, not an anti-feat.
Unclear. DDM and Griffin agree with keeping immeasurable speed, Glassman and Eficiente think it should be removed. We're 2-2 on staff opinions.So what should we do here then?
So what should we do here then?
Well, DDM is very knowledgeable about our immeasurable speed standards, so I would lean toward supporting him in this case.Unclear. DDM and Griffin agree with keeping immeasurable speed, Glassman and Eficiente think it should be removed. We're 2-2 on staff opinions.
No, stop while you are ahead.The rest i will read and address them when i have spare time
Alright my bad ill be looking over the speedNo, stop while you are ahead.
We already addresed all of that, and Xenoverse won't be downgraded aded, just that the 2-A justifications need to be reworded.
Please, otherwise we will derail the thread unnecessarly.
Let's just stick with what is left, ir Speed
AgreedAnd, again, Trunks confirms it's the same version of the events that this (the DBH version) Vegeta has already lived through. So ofc he'd know where to go, it's his own damn timeline.
But there’s countless similar events I think we do seem them use portals sometimes besides the times where they use the crack of time to time travel but it’s outside of space and time and doesn’t help with time travelThe time scroll is literally there for vegeta to see so they know which timeline and which event they're going to, there's no reason to assume vegeta literally has no idea where/when they were going when the time scroll is right there for him to see. The fact Chronoa needs to help him get there, and we see them use portals to reach to the other eras are counterintuitive to them being immeasurable speed since they could just move through time instead of having a portal open in the first place.
When did he claim that it was the exact same vegeta? If it was just claimed that the cell saga vegeta is a past version that doesn’t necessarily mean that Future Trunks is a future version of “main timeline” Trunks but the events within both timelines are way differentAnd, again, Trunks confirms it's the same version of the events that this (the DBH version) Vegeta has already lived through. So ofc he'd know where to go, it's his own damn timeline.
When did he claim that it was the exact same vegeta? If it was just claimed that the cell saga vegeta is a past version that doesn’t necessarily mean that Future Trunks is a future version of “main timeline” Trunks but the events within both timelines are way different
Can you do it?Think the best would just be for both sides to compile all their evidence and arguments for and against immeasurable speed to put in one final post encompassing everything on the subject and let any relevant staff come to see whose sides makes the most sense otherwise this back and forth will keep going on
Not really no because I don't know every aspect of each sides arguments and their counters against the other side so it'd be pretty bad if I did it lolCan you do it?
I have shared both the albums, and this is what I have got
So I am sorry fellas, but Demigra still dies from that.
I already did this tho....Think the best would just be for both sides to compile all their evidence and arguments for and against immeasurable speed to put in one final post encompassing everything on the subject and let any relevant staff come to see whose sides makes the most sense otherwise this back and forth will keep going on
Yeah but there's still been arguments since then enough to get us to another page and the opposition should do the sameI already did this tho....
Which I also addressed...Yeah but there's still been arguments since then enough to get us to another page and the opposition should do the same
I mean that's fair it's fine if you don't want to it was merely a suggestion (this is just 6 pages long for god knows why)Which I also addressed...
I already did this tho....
Yeah but there's still been arguments since then enough to get us to another page and the opposition should do the same
Can you summ it up once again? And add new arguments fairly to both sides.Which I also addressed...
If not both sides just your own side and @Theglassman12 it'd be nice if you could do the same for your side of this as wellAnd add new arguments fairly to both sides.