Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse - Downgrade about statistics

[CraigTucker]

Regarding the speed feat I have so many questions on why we don't accept infinite speed Xenoverse/heroes, We all agree that the verse has infinite timelines and beings such as demigra can move freely in them without the aid of time machines hell even we the hero can do such thing. An example to this is if x travel through the universe in second is mftl+ than there are statements supporting the universe is infinite why not upgrade the speed feat to infinite?

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

If not both sides just your own side

It's here. I'm not gonna write it again

 

[Dalesean027]

It's here. I'm not gonna write it again

Not saying write it again but compile everything into a new post since you've had new arguments since then

You've literally already done one part of it

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Not saying write it again but compile everything into a new post since you've had new arguments since then

I'll link my stuff again here. A new argument I'll point out here is that the quote "This guy is you in the past" is being taken too literally. Even Future Trunks was referred to as "me from the future" by present Trunks himself and by Bulma who called him "the same child but from the future", and they're obviously not from the same timeline (they even refer to Future Zeno as "Zeno from the future" and they do the same thing with Future Zamasu and Goku Black). Add that to the fact that even Trunks didn't know at first where they were, this being Xeno Vegeta's actual timeline is already questionable, when they outright refer to their alternate timeline selves as their actual past/future selves.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I am sorry for being this type of person but in my view of studing japanase kanjis and sentences I believe we should look over this translation because if you look for the kanjis they provide it verbertality states: Nanimokamo ga kiete shimau no yo! ! ! which means everything will be destroyed. I find it weird they didn't use something together like Soshite, anata wa sore ni sotte hakai sa remasu which fits to chrona other word for demigra being destroyed.

Regarding the other translation from someone else the kanji they used is そんなことしたらあなただってただじゃすまないわ! They use すまない which means sorry

Chiper has confirmed to me that it translates to everything will be destroyed well send it later since were talking about something

Given how japanese's kanjis have multiple meanings, it should be better to just stick to this and not other translation which change only because "but I want my 2-A Demigra".

 

[CraigTucker]

Given how japanese's kanjis have multiple meanings, it should be better to just stick to this and not other translation which change only because "but I want my 2-A Demigra".

Lmao yea but I am only pointing out the part where it said he would be destroy as well, its kind of weird how many times people translate a lot of faulty stuff

 

[CraigTucker]

It's funny how nobody uses these arguments to debunk 2-A heroes. http://aminoapps.com/p/z232dq

 

[StrymULTRA]

Lmao yea but I am only pointing out the part where it said he would be destroy as well, its kind of weird how many times people translate a lot of faulty stuff

Given teh contributions that Qliphoth Bacikal did for the site (especially for Shinza back in the day), I would not call him "faulty".

It's funny how nobody uses these arguments to debunk 2-A heroes. http://aminoapps.com/p/z232dq

No one is downgrading Heroes here though?

 

[CraigTucker]

Given teh contributions that Qliphoth Bacikal did for the site (especially for Shinza back in the day), I would not call him "faulty".

No one is downgrading Heroes here though?

I think your misunderstanding what I am saying, i am referring to the fact that sometimes the original speaker may have faulty errors which can lead us to translate faulty things.

Some people in other threads from what I have seen downgrading dbh

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

@CraigTucker stop delearing the thread.
We already went through Xenoverse 2-A, and it will be a rejustification adjustement


Heck, even Demigra will get a 2-A key from XV2 scaling.

Stop it, Next time it will be a warning

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

"This guy is you in the past" is clear indication that this is the exact same Vegeta, just at different points in time.

It doesn’t mean the exact same events occur linearly without 0 differences because again there’s countless identical timelines Trunks is considered the “Future” version of the main timeline Trunks but the Events in both timelines are different

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I'll link my stuff again here. A new argument I'll point out here is that the quote "This guy is you in the past" is being taken too literally. Even Future Trunks was referred to as "me from the future" by present Trunks himself and by Bulma who called him "the same child but from the future", and they're obviously not from the same timeline (they even refer to Future Zeno as "Zeno from the future" and they do the same thing with Future Zamasu and Goku Black). Add that to the fact that even Trunks didn't know at first where they were, this being Xeno Vegeta's actual timeline is already questionable, when they outright refer to their alternate timeline selves as their actual past/future selves.

This is what I was trying to say the entire time but you said it better than me

 

[sanicspood]

It's funny how nobody uses these arguments to debunk 2-A heroes. http://aminoapps.com/p/z232dq

craig why would anyone use debunks from za stando

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It's funny how nobody uses these arguments to debunk 2-A heroes. http://aminoapps.com/p/z232dq

I debunked those in a group dm with might of Geburah in it and made him leave

 

[CraigTucker]

I debunked those in a group dm with might of Geburah in it and made him leave

Lmao

 

[Greenshifter]

"Him "supposedly" knowing it's his own history doesn't change the fact that he would still need to navigate through space-time and know the actual destination of his own history if he went on his own"

as something to follow. It doesn't matter how you think "the entire point" is something else, this is a point made. I disagree with this being intuitive, it's a massive game-changer on how to judge Immeasurable speed that comes out of nowhere, to me this should clearly be proposed to be written somewhere first rather than just being brought up in the CRT of 1 verse.

Let me get this straight, you think that someone with immeasurable speed not knowing the exact space-time coordinates of their destination and thus relying on someone else to transport him is “a massive game changer which is not intuitive”? Efi, it is literal common sense that it doesn’t matter how fast you are; if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re not ending up at the right place.

 

[Tyranno223]

A man can run at hypersonic speed and not find a 100 mile away building if they don't know where it is. Heck they can end up further away than before they start.

Don't see how this criticism works.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

A man can run at hypersonic speed and not find a 100 mile away building if they don't know where it is. Heck they can end up further away than before they start.

Don't see how this criticism works.

And to add to this: Even if they knew where that building is, doesn't mean they necessarily have to know the proper direction, specially if they are in a place they know nothing about.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Nah Eficiente is spitting

 

[Antvasima]

The Dark Dragon Balls physically flew beyond space-time to different eras of time. They were visually shown to have physically flown away without any showings of portals, they were explicitly stated to have flown away without any mention of portals and Dragon Balls by default use physical flight for traveling, even the strongest DB's in the verse do it to travel to other universes. All the evidence clearly points that the Dark Dragon Balls physically flew beyond time. The argument against this was that the feat was done "off-screen" but we can clearly see the DDB's physically flying away on-screen so that claim is false.

The second feat is Chronoa, Trunks and Vegeta flying from the Cell era to the Buu era. You can clearly see them flying in the Crack of Time towards to Xeno Goku's location, so it's heavily implied that they actually flew that distance, thus physically flying to different eras. The argument against this is that they used the Crack of Time itself to travel from the Cell era to the Buu era, in the sense that the CoT itself functions in a way that it could be used for time travel purposes. However, this was never actually established in-verse to be an actual function of the Crack of Time itself from what I've seen so the whole argument is literally based on headcanon. Adding a major new function to an important part of the cosmology with nothing but baseless assumptions/headcanon is a big no in my book.

An anti-feat argument was brought up about Vegeta needing Chronoa to go to his own history, implying that he can't do it own his own. However, my argument is that Vegeta simply doesn't know the specific destination of his history in space-time due to being just recruited (he doesn't even exactly know what a history even is at that point), with space-time destinations being an actual established thing in the verse, thus not an actual anti-feat. As I've explained, him being native to that timeline doesn't somehow grant him the info of his history's destination in space-time, it's not the same thing as finding your own house since you're navigating through an endless amount of other near identical histories. And as for the Time Scroll, him looking at a recording of his own history on a scroll doesn't grant him the actual destination of his history in space-time. Him "supposedly" knowing it's his own history doesn't change the fact that he would still need to navigate through space-time and know the actual destination of his own history if he went on his own. And to add the icing on the cake, Trunks (who's been in the Time Patrol longer than Vegeta at this point) who looked at and used the exact same Time Scroll as Vegeta did and went with Vegeta to that history only realized that they were in the Cell Games era after he actually went to that history and saw Cell there. Not to mention the fact that the Time Scroll literally only showed a giant crater in the ground so once again, there's no proof that Vegeta actually knew which history he was heading to when even Trunks didn't know at first and he used the exact same scroll that Vegeta did lol. Him not going to that history on his own is simply a case of him not knowing where to go, not an anti-feat.

A new argument I'll point out here is that the quote "This guy is you in the past" is being taken too literally. Even Future Trunks was referred to as "me from the future" by present Trunks himself and by Bulma who called him "the same child but from the future", and they're obviously not from the same timeline (they even refer to Future Zeno as "Zeno from the future" and they do the same thing with Future Zamasu and Goku Black). Add that to the fact that even Trunks didn't know at first where they were, this being Xeno Vegeta's actual timeline is already questionable, when they outright refer to their alternate timeline selves as their actual past/future selves.

@DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin @Maverick_Zero_X @EliminatorVenom @Starter_Pack @Eficiente @Theglassman12

What do you think about this? I personally think that Dagoth seems to make sense.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I also still think Dagoth makes sense.

 

[CraigTucker]

So are we done here? If so can we close this thread

 

[Dalesean027]

So are we done here? If so can we close this thread

???

 

[Antvasima]

The accepted changes here still need to be applied first.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The accepted changes here still need to be applied first.

Yap, the current justification should be changed as we concurred on. Is anyone who want optionally to modify them according to our correspondence?

 

[CraigTucker]

The accepted changes here still need to be applied first.

Wait are we finally updating dbh/xenoverse speed to immesurable/infinite or?

 

[CraigTucker]

???

I am asking if we are done so we can close the thread

 

[Antvasima]

Do not derail our discussions with unimportant messages please.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

who’s gonna add the new justifications?

 

[StrymULTRA]

who’s gonna add the new justifications?

Me.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Me.

Thanks for helping out.

 

[Elizhaa]

Dagoth's points make sense, to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

It seems like Dagoth's interpretations about DBH/X speeds have been accepted then.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Thank you for helping out.

It seems like Dagoth's interpretations about DBH/X speeds have been accepted then.

Yes, most staff agree with me in this regard. Thus, the only thing we need to do here is the XV re-justifications

 

[ImmortalDread]

@StrymULTRA said he will do this part.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

@StrymULTRA said he will do this part.

Alright then

 

[Antvasima]

Do the character speed levels need improved justifications/explanations in the affected character profile pages in our wiki?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Honestly, the blog for Speed clarification need better formatting in my opinion. I prefer @Dagoth_OwO fixing it as he is knowledgeable member regarding this.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems like a good idea.

Should we move the blog contents to a regular DB explanation page instead?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Okay. That seems like a good idea.

Should we move the blog contents to a regular DB explanation page instead?

Sounds fine! Since this can't be edited. It should be a page.