Dragonball Heroes and Xeno Revision

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bump. This is still an issue on the profiles.

 

[Robo432343]

No.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

No.

No as in, it's fine for the profiles to have this glaring contradiction when it can be easily addressed and revised? (so say the supporters)

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

And the episode shows a literal room. It is not a pocket dimension. Mr. Popo and Goku just walk into it like a normal room. Mr. Pop, activates it and a portal appears in the room and Goku goes through the portal.

The Room of Spirit and Time has actual evidence that it is a dimension and statements. The Time Room does not.

Also where does it say in the blog that the tome room is a pocket dimension, because I don’t see it.

The Time Room being a room doesn’t mean that it’s not an alternate dimension. The Room of Spirit and Time is a room, but it’s also a different dimension. So it being a room doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a dimension.

I mean this does have actual evidence of being an alternate dimension. It literally functions as one. And being the place that governs time.

Here.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The Time Room being a room doesn’t mean that it’s not an alternate dimension. The Room of Spirit and Time is a room, but it’s also a different dimension. So it being a room doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a dimension.

I mean this does have actual evidence of being an alternate dimension. It literally functions as one. And being the place that governs time.

Here.

Your evidence is a portal opening up inside the room that goku goes through it to end up in a different area, which then transports him to the past.

Room -> area with the melty clocks -> past

This doesn't prove the time room is a dimension. We clearly see Goku and Mr. Popo enter it like a regular room. At very best, it just shows that the time room gives access to another dimension.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Just to iterate.

The arguments so far have been:

1. Toki Toki is the source of time for the multiverse and NOT the individual universes.

Debunked here by the source material that state he is the source of time for the universes and timelines.







2. Toki Toki is the source of all dimensions and the Time Room is a dimension.

So far there isn't any explicit evidence showing the time room is a dimension and not just a regular room that's been show.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Your evidence is a portal opening up inside the room that goku goes through it to end up in a different area, which then transports him to the past.

Room -> area with the melty clocks -> past

This doesn't prove the time room is a dimension. We clearly see Goku and Mr. Popo enter it like a regular room. At very best, it just shows that the time room gives access to another dimension.

The argument is that it has functions of a dimension and you admit that yourself. You’re playing a game of semantics now it being a room or dimension really does not matter.

The main point is: Toki Toki’s egg creates time for an entire timeline, as a result it gives birth to everything within a normal timeline: the Time Room, 12, universes, neutral space etc. There’s no contradiction, you’re literally just forcing a contradiction upon yourself.

Just to iterate.

The arguments so far have been:

1. Toki Toki is the source of time for the multiverse and NOT the individual universes.

Debunked here by the source material that state he is the source of time for the universes and timelines.







2. Toki Toki is the source of all dimensions and the Time Room is a dimension.

So far there isn't any explicit evidence showing the time room is a dimension and not just a regular room that's been show.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The main point is: Toki Toki’s egg creates time for an entire timeline, as a result it gives birth to everything within a normal timeline: the Time Room, 12, universes, neutral space etc. There’s no contradiction, you’re literally just forcing a contradiction upon yourself.

Okay. So where is the evidence that the time room existed at the creation of the universe?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Okay. So where is the evidence that the time room existed at the creation of the universe?

First, I want to establish Toki Toki’s egg creates the time for a universe. As you’ve shown in your scans, but Elder Kai expands on this and tells us it creates timelines too.
Also, it’s stated that the time room is the thing that created the past, present, and future of it, so it’d have to be the thing that created it. Which is consistent with it being an alternate dimension, that allows them to transport through time.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

First, I want to establish Toki Toki’s egg creates the time for a universe. As you’ve shown in your scans, but Elder Kai expands on this and tells us it creates timelines too.
Also, it’s stated that the time room is the thing that created the past, present, and future of it, so it’d have to be the thing that created it. Which is consistent with it being an alternate dimension, that allows them to transport through time.

A timeline would include the past, present and future inherently. The source material is essentially directly saying that Toki Toki created the past, present, and future.

You are claiming that Toki Toki created the time room which then created the past, present and future. There is no evidence to support this speculation and that contradicts Elder Kai's statement.

The source material also says that all of a universe's time is stuffed inside his egg. Why would the time room need to create the past, present, and future, when time already exists inside the egg? Reminder, when the egg hatches it creates the universe, so the time for the universe already existed before its creation. Meaning time itself predates the time room by necessity.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

A timeline would include the past, present and future inherently. The source material is essentially directly saying that Toki Toki created the past, present, and future.

You are claiming that Toki Toki created the time room which then created the past, present and future. There is no evidence to support this speculation and that contradicts Elder Kai's statement.

The source material says time is stuffed inside his egg. Why would the time room need to create the past, present, and future, when time already exists inside the egg? Reminder, when the egg hatches it creates the universe, so the time for the universe already existed before its creation. Meaning time itself predates the time room by necessity.

Elder Kai differentiates the time of the universe, and creating the timeline itself because timeline is a term referred to “parallel worlds” in the sense of alternate timelines that contain their own macrocosms. I think the confusion here is that you think timeline is merely referring to the time of one singular universe.

I’m claiming Toki Toki created the timeline, which contains contents such as RoSaT, time room, neutral space, 12 macrocosms, etc. The typical things we know exist within the cosmology of a DB timeline.

The time room is simply responsible for the time for the living universe. Whereas Toki Toki’s egg is responsible for the overarching timeline of all the universes and the contents of the cosmological aspects of a DB alternate timeline. Although, ultimately the time room would come into fruition from the egg.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The time room is simply responsible for the time for the living universe. Whereas Toki Toki’s egg is responsible for the overarching timeline of all the universes and the contents of the cosmological aspects of a DB alternate timeline. Although, ultimately the time room would come into fruition from the egg.

I shall repeat myself:

A single egg contains all of a universe's time. That includes the living universe.



if the eggs already contain all of the universe's time, and the universe is created when the egg hatches, then the unvierse's time pre-dates the existence of the time room. Why would the time room need to create time for something that already exists?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I shall repeat myself:

A single egg contains all of a universe's time.



if the eggs already contain all of the universe's time, and the universe is created when the egg hatches, then the unvierse's time pre-dates the existence of the time room. Why would the time room need to create time for something that already exists?

Yeah, because the time egg is the substance that creates everything. It would just mean it contains all of a universe’s time, from virtue of being the thing that is responsible for and creates the time room.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yeah, because the time egg is the substance that creates everything. It would just mean it contains all of a universe’s time, from virtue of being the thing that is responsible for and creates the time room.

So you agree? Time existed before the time room?

 

[Vietthai96]

I shall repeat myself:

So you only repeating the same arguments that have been addressed multiple times??. So i don't see the need to keep repeating in circle, unless you bring up new arguments and proofs

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

So you only repeating the same arguments that have been addressed multiple times??. So i don't see the need to keep repeating in circle, unless you bring up new arguments and proofs

the argument wasn’t addressed and is still standing:

if the eggs already contain all of the universe's time, and the universe is created when the egg hatches, then the unvierse's time pre-dates the existence of the time room. Why would the time room need to create time when time already exists?

 

[Ryzen7900X]

This doesn't prove the time room is a dimension. We clearly see Goku and Mr. Popo enter it like a regular room. At very best, it just shows that the time room gives access to another dimension.

this is just an especially weird argument. how does that change anything?? everyone enters the HTC like a regular room too, and yet we know for a fact that it's a separate dimension. that's not the disqualifier that you think it is. man those 5 failed sailor moon threads really did a number on your ability to argue

 

[RanHover60]

Blud’s salty that Sailor Moon couldn’t get Low 1c after 20 attempts

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

everyone enters the HTC like a regular room too, and yet we know for a fact that it's a separate dimension.

And let's not forget the Shinsenkai which is a literal 4-A space inside one of the rooms in the Lookout that Kami & Popo entered through a big ass gate. Honestly this thread is just trying to impose an inconsistency where there is no inconsistency

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

No as in, it's fine for the profiles to have this glaring contradiction when it can be easily addressed and revised? (so say the supporters)

Well, you can close this crt and try with better arguments, this has been open for months, i doubt any mod or moderator will get into this.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

this is just an especially weird argument. how does that change anything?? everyone enters the HTC like a regular room too, and yet we know for a fact that it's a separate dimension. that's not the disqualifier that you think it is. man those 5 failed sailor moon threads really did a number on your ability to argue

And let's not forget the Shinsenkai which is a literal 4-A space inside one of the rooms in the Lookout that Kami & Popo entered through a big ass gate. Honestly this thread is just trying to impose an inconsistency where there is no inconsistency

Well, you can close this crt and try with better arguments, this has been open for months, i doubt any mod or moderator will get into this.

Interesting how yall keep dodging the simple question:

if the eggs already contain all of the universe's time, and the universe is created when the egg hatches, then the unvierse's time pre-dates the existence of the time room. Why would the time room need to create time when time already exists?

 

[Hasty12345]

unvierse's time pre-dates the existence of the time room

Isn't this already the case in Toei anyway?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Interesting how yall keep dodging the simple question:

if the eggs already contain all of the universe's time, and the universe is created when the egg hatches, then the unvierse's time pre-dates the existence of the time room. Why would the time room need to create time when time already exists?

I'm not dodging, i understand there is a problem about both shared cosmologies because both are different, but you could close this crt and with better arguments try in next since this crt does not contain staff.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Isn't this already the case in Toei anyway?

Toki toki only exists in Heroes and Xeno

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Isn't this already the case in Toei anyway?

This is a cosmology problem, DB Toei and Super share the same cosmology for DBH, there are some differences, Toei is accepted as having an infinite Universe and DBS is not, this could be explained with a really big crt or something.

 

[Hasty12345]

Toki toki only exists in Heroes and Xeno

I'm talking about the time room being the source of time, wasn't it created by Kami on Earth?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I'm talking about the time room being the source of time, wasn't it created by Kami on Earth?

I cannot confirm who created, it exists in Mr. Popo’s palace.

 

[Hasty12345]

I cannot confirm who created, it exists in Mr. Popo’s palace.

I could be wrong, haven't watched the OGDB anime since I was a kid

 

[RanHover60]

How bout we just agree that Toki-Toki’s egg is another hypertime and we get 6D heroes

 

[Ryzen7900X]

How bout we just agree that Toki-Toki’s egg is another hypertime and we get 6D heroes

if you could prove an alternative direction of time, thats a legit argument ngl

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I'm not dodging, i understand there is a problem about both shared cosmologies because both are different, but you could close this crt and with better arguments try in next since this crt does not contain staff.

I am glad that you admit that there is a problem, but this thread was created to discuss this problem. So far, the only arguments have been that there is no problem, which I believe I have pretty much showed that is not the case.

I encourage supporters to provide an alternate reasoning for Low 1-c for Heroes and Xenoverse, that doesn't contradict the source material. The one accepted in the blog cannot be accurately used here.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Interesting how yall keep dodging the simple question:

if the eggs already contain all of the universe's time, and the universe is created when the egg hatches, then the unvierse's time pre-dates the existence of the time room. Why would the time room need to create time when time already exists?

On the contrary, it is you who are dodging clear scans of the eggs birthing entire timelines. Even when the egg is about to hatch, Elder Kai calls it a history/timeline again. The Time Room creates the time of a single universe while the egg can hatch an entire timeline. It's not a hard concept to understand, but then again, you did mix the Pendulum Room with the Time Room so I'm not surprised really

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

On the contrary, it is you who are dodging clear scans of the eggs birthing entire timelines. Even when the egg is about to hatch, Elder Kai calls it a history/timeline again. The Time Room creates the time of a single universe while the egg can hatch an entire timeline. It's not a hard concept to understand, but then again, you did mix the Pendulum Room with the Time Room so I'm not surprised really

Bro. The source material says, "NO."

 

[Vietthai96]

Bro. The source material says, "NO."

I don't want to further engage in this pointless discussion cause you have yet to actually bring up new argument other than repeating the same thing that was addressed over and over. but since you decide to ignore the next scene after this and only post the first part i need to call you out on this behavior

this is the entire scene

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I don't want to further engage in this pointless discussion cause you have yet to actually bring up new argument other than repeating the same thing that was addressed over and over. but since you decide to ignore the next scene after this and only post the first part i need to call you out on this behavior

this is the entire scene

What is this suppose to disprove? Toki Toki is responsible for the timelines and the time of a universe. The two aren't mutually exclusive and are both clearly stated by Elder Kai.

 

[Vietthai96]

What is this suppose to disprove? Toki Toki is responsible for the timelines and the time of a universe. The two aren't mutually exclusive and are both clearly stated by Elder Kai.

Time room source of all time for singular universe, a macrocosm, Tokitoki is source of all time of the entire multiverse. And literally Tokitoki is responsible for all dimensions, which mean time room is a part of his responsibility, his power which is the source of all time, isn't contradict and debunk anything

So who are actually ignored/dodged all the arguments??

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

So who are actually ignored/dodged all the arguments??

I did not dodge this question. My response was:

1. There is no evidence that the timeroom is a dimension.

2. Point 1 is irrelevant because Elder Kai says that All of a universe's time is contained in Toki Toki's egg. Why would the time room be needed to create time that already exists before it's creation?

You haven't answered point 2.

 

[Vietthai96]

1. There is no evidence that the timeroom is a dimension.

Room of Spirit and Time is also a room, yet again is a dimension, you again ignored what people have said

Point 1 is irrelevant because Elder Kai says that All of a universe's time is contained in Toki Toki's egg. Why would the time room be needed to create time that already exists before it's creation?

And, why it should not??? both thing can coexist, you just fishing for contradiction when there is none

i don't understand what you trying to nitpicking here, Tokitoki being source of time isn't a contradiction, literally everything is created by him, time room which is the source of time of a singular universe being a part of what he created, nothing contradict at all.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Bro. The source material says, "NO."

And the source material clarifies with additional context that it is an actual history or timeline in the egg. The egg hatches an entire timeline while the Time Room creates the time of a single universe. Simple as that

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Room of Spirit and Time is also a room, yet again is a dimension, you again ignored what people have said

And I already said that the Room of Spirit and Time has direct evidence of it being a dimension. Where is the evidence for the room of time?

Just because the Room of Spirit and Time is a dimension doesn't mean that the Room of time has to be one too.

And, why it should not??? both thing can coexist, you just fishing for contradiction when there is none

No they cannot. The time room cannot create something that has already been created. That is a contradiction.

And the source material clarifies with additional context that it is an actual history or timeline in the egg. The egg hatches an entire timeline while the Time Room creates the time of a single universe. Simple as that

The Egg is both responsible for the time of the universe and the timeline. The source material clearly states both. The two aren't mutually exclusive. How many times do I have to repeat myself?