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Because the evidence put forward only amounts to it being 4D at most.
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Dragon Ball Heroes 5D/Low 1-C range upgrade
- Thread starter Greenshifter
- Start date
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Is a spatial dimension different from 4D space also 4D space?
GodlyCharmander
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Yes. Different =/= higher
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If its not 2D, 1D, 0D because it can contain 3D beings and is different from 4D, then what would it be? The only option is 5D, unless you think its 3D
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That’s literally what a multiverse is. A collection of different 4D space-times.
GodlyCharmander
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It's neither. Different doesn't mean lower, or higher. And why do you believe the difference is the amounts of dimensions, and not literally anything else?
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,020
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Being.hyperdimension and superdimensional can also mean simply being 4D.
Im a bit iffy about it will only upgrade range because if its a structure and universal in size it should require low 1-C potency to completely destroy or affect it in its entirety.
Neutral as im not familiar with heroes
Im a bit iffy about it will only upgrade range because if its a structure and universal in size it should require low 1-C potency to completely destroy or affect it in its entirety.
Neutral as im not familiar with heroes
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Why is it neither?
GodlyCharmander
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I explained in the next two sentences.
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A different spatial dimension that is not 0D, 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D. Man I wonder what it could be
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How does this affect AP?
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Its almost as if Greenshifter said this isn't an AP upgrade
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"Different spatial dimension" What else would it be?
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I’ll have to disagree for reasons stated.
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- Thread starter
- #58
King explained my point fairly decently. Only the other mathematical dimension thing (which is well-defined btw, the type of dimensions you use in a coordinate system) is for the demon realm. Which the CoT is superdimensional to.
Shadow brings up some decent counterpoints I think, but even on the tiering system page a higher-D space can both adjoin 4D space-times due to making up the space between them and also extend into that 5th dimension.
Shadow brings up some decent counterpoints I think, but even on the tiering system page a higher-D space can both adjoin 4D space-times due to making up the space between them and also extend into that 5th dimension.
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- #59
This is also a different point but a dimension isn’t lower or higher than another one. It’s just an axis of movement. So since it’s not the same axis of movements as the material universe (3D) it must have at least 1 different axis of movement, making the combination of both a 4D structure, which the CoT is superdimensional to. This is to avoid all of the “but time isn’t mentioned” type of deal which I knew someone would bring up.
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Bump
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I must ask; is any dimensional axis beyond the standard 4 even mentioned?
A different mathematical dimension is pretty clearly just referring to another universe/timeline/pocket dimension (since a space isn't exactly existing in a dimensional axis anymore than one can exist in a line) and not the actual mathematical term.
"Super dimensional space" is far from adequate proof for higher dimensional space since what Super means in context is independent of it's standalone meaning and we have no idea what's even being referred to here.
And the Crack in Time existing between timelines being supporting proof for higher dimensional range is just....bruh. Like, by this logic any attack that covers a multiverse would also qualify since it also covers the space between timelines.
A different mathematical dimension is pretty clearly just referring to another universe/timeline/pocket dimension (since a space isn't exactly existing in a dimensional axis anymore than one can exist in a line) and not the actual mathematical term.
"Super dimensional space" is far from adequate proof for higher dimensional space since what Super means in context is independent of it's standalone meaning and we have no idea what's even being referred to here.
And the Crack in Time existing between timelines being supporting proof for higher dimensional range is just....bruh. Like, by this logic any attack that covers a multiverse would also qualify since it also covers the space between timelines.
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- Thread starter
- #63
Explicitly, no, no-one states "hey we need to move across the 5th dimension to reach the CoT guys".
I think you're missing the point, it got translated in a way that it was clear that it was referring to a different mathematical (or spatio-temporal as some people call it) dimension. The way I interpret it is that it has at least 1 axis that the material universe doesn't have, I'm not sure how else one could interpret it.
the prefix super- stands for above or beyond. So it literally says "a space beyond/above (all known) dimensions".
I mostly put that there so people can get a better view of the cosmology. A bulk space that contains universes usually helps make tier 1 stuff solid.
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As an isolated space-time or realm? And how "clear" it was about being a dimensional axis isn't as solid as you make it out to be, considering the series' propensity for using dimension, timeline and universe interchangeably.
Sure, a space above and beyond all timelines, since this doesn't even specify that they mean the actual use of dimensions, not to mention that what "above and beyond" mean depends on context that we don't have.
That's just a multiverse.
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- #65
How can you get to that conclusion if you follow the translation which says mathematical? Like mathematical is literally referring to movement axis' here.
I'm pretty sure this also refers to mathematical dimensions, but hey I'm no translation expert so doing a "but this kanji actually means this" back-and-forth doesn't interest me, so if you could get someone to independently verify it that'd be great.
Also being above or beyond mathematical dimensions is very simple to figure out what it means, it's just 1 mathematical dimension extra.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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Mathematical dimensions isn't mentioned once, he simply read "dimensions", and assumed it's a mathematical one instead of just... an universe. (Which is how the term is used 9/10 times)
Nothing indicates math, axis, or anything. It's two scans saying the demon realm is a different spatial dimension, and the other calling CoT a superdimensional space, that's literally all the OP is.
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- #68
The person who translated it said the demon realm scan is talking about a mathematical dimension, imma take his expertise over you guys' opinions. If you're talking about the super-dimensional one I already asked if someone could verify it.
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Fine, then get it translated and verify that one too.
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If you search on a Japanese dictionary, you'll see that 次元 means "dimension" in the mathematical sense. I could post a scan if you want.
Or we can do as Green said, and ask for a verification of both scans.
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I means I guess but it seems that people here think the issue is translation and not like, you know, context and whether it actually fits what the translation says. Let's handwave away the obvious issues of a space existing in an axis of movement and look at the source material. Does this ever come up?
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,045
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The Demon Realm is consistently portrayed across both the main canon, the Xenoverse series, and the Heroes series as a dark, demonic mirror of the Living Universe where laws and logic are substituted with evil and magic. AFAIK, there is never any mention of the Demon Realm being some sort of extra-mathematical dimension or on some other axis. It is a world on the opposite side of the Living Universe.
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No, 次元 doesn't have to be "mathematical dimension". It is used for parallel ones the same way we do in english or in many other languages.
The most common term to talk about alternate dimensions is 異次元 (found in Pokemon, Yugioh, etc...) but it isn't the only one either (別の次元, which is used here, works just fine).
Seriously, it's really annoying to see people just jump on any word they find without having second thought like "hey, can it have several meanings?" or "does it make sense with the story?"
The most common term to talk about alternate dimensions is 異次元 (found in Pokemon, Yugioh, etc...) but it isn't the only one either (別の次元, which is used here, works just fine).
Seriously, it's really annoying to see people just jump on any word they find without having second thought like "hey, can it have several meanings?" or "does it make sense with the story?"
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- #75
The demon realm has several statements such as being a space beyond time but this particular one I don't think so. It's a pretty weird space though so it wouldn't contradict anything though.
I agree, but that doesn't really address the point though, the translator says it means mathematical and they had access to the entire scan and thus context so...
GodlyCharmander
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Quasi knows Japanese (to a substantial extent) and is more trustworthy than a translator we don't even know.
If they said the word might mean Parallel dimension, then I doubt they're lying.
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Did he look at the entire context though? If so then Ig you have a point.
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@QuasiYuri Could you also take a look at the super-dimensional scan and see it refers to mathematical dimensions or universes? (Since that is of course the most important scan)
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I played the game a whiiile ago, if that's enough context. Also I think I was called for one or two DBH CRT and constantly see this kind of upgrade trying to go through.
The word superdimensional is 超時空 and 時空 means space-time. Usually you would find it for 4D entities or just to talk about an involvement with multiverse and stuff. I would say that it is rather common and not really used the way you're arguing for in the OP.
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