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Dragon Ball Heroes 5D/Low 1-C range upgrade

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Greenshifter

Greenshifter

10,276
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Hello everyone,

The Crack of Time (CoT) from Dragon Ball Heroes is a 5D/Low 1-C structure, in this OP I'll do my best to make this apparent to everyone.

From the range page: "Low Complex Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach throughout 5-dimensional to 6-dimensional space."

Now I'm uninterested in the exact semantics of how it should be worded on the page, I'm just here to clarify that people with say multiversal+ range will not be able to access the Crack of Time, which several characters in Heroes can.

As for the evidence:

The Demon Realm is a different mathematical dimension and a space-time:
"A mysterious space in another (mathematical) dimension from where Son Goku and his friends are. It is said to be inhabited by evil sorcerers and monsters. Babidy, who appeared in the Majin Buu Arc, comes from the Dark Demon Realm, and Dabura rules as its king."

"Mechikabura - Come forth, Dark Shenlong!!"
"Trunks: Xeno - W-what!? Is this strange energy...?"
"Time Kaioushin - It can't be... You mean Dark Shenlong has been summoned in a spacetime somewhere...!?"

The timestream (collection of all timelines) in DBH is also accepted as 4D.

Now the Crack of Time is called a Super Dimensional Space: The prefix "super" stands for above/beyond, making it above all previously established mathematical dimensions in the verse, in short 5D.

As a support the Crack of Time is called the space between dimensions (is referring to timelines), which also backs 5D due to the following quote from the tiering system and it could be seen as a bulk space essentially: "Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable..."

As for the scaling:

In God Mission you can battle Demigra and the other Demon Gods in the CoT due to Demigra connecting his Time Shrine to it. So the Demon Gods scale.
The Kaioshins of Time, regular demons, the Time Birds, Universe Tree amped Goku and Crimson Masked Saiyan would also scale via portals and/or teleportation. Mechi's black hole also scales since it consumed everything, leaving nothing behind and not even Chronoa who can access the CoT could escape it.

Edit: Don’t bring up AP pretty please.
 
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Greenshifter said:
"A mysterious space in another (mathematical) dimension from where Son Goku and his friends are. It is said to be inhabited by evil sorcerers and monsters. Babidy, who appeared in the Majin Buu Arc, comes from the Dark Demon Realm, and Dabura rules as its king."
Click to expand...
print the original japanese text
 
did i hear maths? Why not just make it tier 0 cuz maths? We should scale this to manifold since people enjoy scaling non canon material to it.

following btw (neutral)
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
You tried this same thing with Contumelia and it didn’t work because of the lack of an infinite gap between the higher and lower dimensions
Click to expand...
Yes hence why 1) I said that I don’t care how it’s implemented as long as it’s made clear that they can access the 5th dimension which people with multiversal+ range can’t, something that Planck agreed with for that thread, 2) when it came to the structure of the universe in that thread suddenly Planck said that it could be tier 1 AP-wise. So I wouldn’t draw any conclusions from that thread. Also maybe let more than 1 staff from another thread decide what to do here, Ben 10 isn’t DBH.
 
I recall something about the space between dimensions not qualifying for Low 1-C in some threads. Will wait for knowledgeable people.
 
None of this proves 5D. The statements you reference don’t show any indication that the CoT is higher-dimensional relative to space-time.

Matter of fact, a problem with implying the CoT is 5D is because Chronoa mentions that it is joined with many eras, or timelines. A 5D structure cannot be simultaneously joined with 4D ones, it must be fully transcendent over them.
 
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孫悟空たちがいる場所とは別の次」元にあるという、謎多き空間。邪悪な魔導師や怪物が住んでいるらしい。「魔人ブウ編」で登場したバビディは暗黒魔界から来ており、ダーブラは王として統率していた。

A mysterious space that is located in a separate realm from where Son Goku and his friends live. It is said to be inhabited by evil mages and monsters. Babidi, who appeared in the "Majin Buu Arc," came from the Dark Demon Realm, and Dabura was the king who ruled it.
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Nothing in the Japanese text hints as any mathematical or qualitative properties, according to RomajiDesu.
I'm not fluent in Japanese, though, so take my words with a grain of salt.

The translation of the whole "super space-time" thing checks out; however, "super" could mean literally anything, ranging from a really big space-time, to a space-time that has greater properties than most, or it could just mean "a fight that takes place across history".

Heroes and the Dragon Ball franchise in general love to throw the term "transcending space and time" around to describe someone who time travels, even through a machine like Future Trunks. To be completely fair, time travelling is transcending space-time to a certain degree, just not mathematically, qualitatively, or in any way meaningful enough to warrant a Low Complex Multiversal rating.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Nothing in the Japanese text hints as any mathematical or qualitative properties, according to RomajiDesu.
I'm not fluent in Japanese, though, so take my words with a grain of salt.

The translation of the whole "super space-time" thing checks out; however, "super" could mean literally anything, ranging from a really big space-time, to a space-time that has greater properties than most, or it could just mean "a fight that takes place across history".

Heroes and the Dragon Ball franchise in general love to throw the term "transcending space and time" around to describe someone who time travels, even through a machine like Future Trunks. To be completely fair, time travelling is transcending space-time to a certain degree, just not mathematically, qualitatively, or in any way meaningful enough to warrant a Low Complex Multiversal rating.
Click to expand...
TheUnshakableOne said:
Wheres the Kanji for "Mathematical" at?
Click to expand...
thetechmaster36 said:
I'm frankly not seeing anything here that's Low 1-C. So uh, yeah, disagree FRA.
Click to expand...
It uses "元" which refers to mathematical dimensions only

ShadowWarrior1999 said:
None of this proves 5D. The statements you reference don’t show any indication that the CoT is higher-dimensional relative to space-time.

Matter of fact, a problem with implying the CoT is 5D is because Chronoa mentions that it is joined with many eras, or timelines. A 5D structure cannot be simultaneously joined with 4D ones, it must be fully transcendent over them.
Click to expand...
You can join something you are larger then

It also just says "super dimensional space"
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
None of this proves 5D. The statements you reference don’t show any indication that the CoT is higher-dimensional relative to space-time.

Matter of fact, a problem with implying the CoT is 5D is because Chronoa mentions that it is joined with many eras, or timelines. A 5D structure cannot be simultaneously joined with 4D ones, it must be fully transcendent over them.
Click to expand...
That's bullshit.
Who said higher dimensions aren't connected with lower dimensions?? Higher dimensions are literally made up pf lower dimensions as their little parts. It's like basic sense. Tiering page and FAQ even mention it.

Smfh "full transcendence" sorely misinterpreted on this wiki. And it's only required for AP. For Range being Higher Dimensional is enough.
 
thetechmaster36 said:
Cool cherrypicking.
Click to expand...
Nullflowerblush said:
hrm...
Click to expand...
Greenshifter was probably referring to this, though I can't verify because I can't read it https://jisho.org/word/次元

And it means spatial dimension, since it refers to things like four dimensional. Or it could mean perspective, but if you think the Crack of Time and Demon Realm are different perspectives then it would be absurd

ShadowWarrior1999 said:
There’s being larger than something, then there’s being an entire dimensional level above it.

“Super dimensional space” doesn’t grant a tier by itself. It could just mean it’s 4D.
Click to expand...
At no point did Greenshifter propose a tier, so I think you definitely didn't even read the OP especially since you didn't see the super dimensional part

Things that are higher dimensional literally contain lower dimensional things within them
 
I’ll a Q&A thread on this matter. Since this is the second “give me Low 1-C range so I’ll have an easier time pushing for Low 1-C AP later” threads.
 
Yeah, pretty much disagree too.
Greenshifter said:
Hello everyone,

The Crack of Time (CoT) from Dragon Ball Heroes is a 5D/Low 1-C structure, in this OP I'll do my best to make this apparent to everyone.

From the range page: "Low Complex Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach throughout 5-dimensional to 6-dimensional space."

Now I'm uninterested in the exact semantics of how it should be worded on the page, I'm just here to clarify that people with say multiversal+ range will not be able to access the Crack of Time, which several characters in Heroes can.

As for the evidence:

The Demon Realm is a different mathematical dimension
Click to expand...
Vague. Mathematical dimensions can just be 1D.
Greenshifter said:
and a space-time:
Click to expand...
4D
Greenshifter said:
Now the Crack of Time is called a Super Dimensional Space: The prefix "super" stands for above/beyond, making it above all previously established mathematical dimensions in the verse, in short 5D.
Click to expand...
If there's no relation of time being measured, then it's probably in relation to the normal 3 dimensions of the universe which is 4D. That's even assuming it's not just a very large space.
Greenshifter said:
As a support the Crack of Time is called the space between dimensions (is referring to timelines),
Click to expand...
Unquantifiable.

I don't see enough evidence to deserve a low 1-C rating in AP or Range.
 
CosmicWreck said:
Yeah, pretty much disagree too.

Vague. Mathematical dimensions can just be 1D.

4D

If there's no relation of time being measured, then it's probably in relation to the normal 3 dimensions of the universe which is 4D. That's even assuming it's not just a very large space.

Unquantifiable.

I don't see enough evidence to deserve a low 1-C rating in AP or Range.
Click to expand...
He explained why its more than just 1D. A 1D space wouldn't be able to even have 3D humans in it

Why is a spatial dimension different from 4D space also 4D? That would be self contradictory

Time has nothing to do with range
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
At no point did Greenshifter propose a tier, so I think you definitely didn't even read the OP especially since you didn't see the super dimensional part

Things that are higher dimensional literally contain lower dimensional things within them
Click to expand...
“5D/Low 1-C range upgrade.” I did see the super dimensional part, I acknowledged that it isn’t sufficient for a 5D upgrade.

Containing lower dimensional objects within is not the same as being joined to said lower dimensional objects.
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
He explained why its more than just 1D. A 1D space wouldn't be able to even have 3D humans in it
Click to expand...
Sorry, fair. 4D then. Or 5D. Or infinite D. My point was it's vague. Mathematical dimensions can mean anything.
XXKINGXX69 said:
Why is a spatial dimension different from 4D space also 4D? That would be self contradictory
Click to expand...
Where was it stated it was a 4D space?
XXKINGXX69 said:
Time has nothing to do with range
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you mean by this.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
That's bullshit.
Who said higher dimensions aren't connected with lower dimensions?? Higher dimensions are literally made up pf lower dimensions as their little parts. It's like basic sense. Tiering page and FAQ even mention it.

Smfh "full transcendence" sorely misinterpreted on this wiki. And it's only required for AP. For Range being Higher Dimensional is enough.
Click to expand...
They’re not “connected” since affecting lower-dimensions would have no effect on the dimensions above them.

The structure would have to be higher-dimensional to begin with for it to qualify as range.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
“5D/Low 1-C range upgrade.” I did see the super dimensional part, I acknowledged that it isn’t sufficient for a 5D upgrade.

Containing lower dimensional objects within is not the same as being joined to said lower dimensional objects.
Click to expand...
Why is higher dimensional above 4D space not low 1-C range? Its also just range, not tier, so you didn't read that part

You can join a 3D object with 2D ones too

It also doesn't say the lower dimensions have an affect on the dimensions beyon
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
Why is higher dimensional above 4D space not low 1-C range? Its also just range, not tier, so you didn't read that part

You can join a 3D object with 2D ones too

It also doesn't say the lower dimensions have an affect on the dimensions beyon
Click to expand...
The contention being made on this thread is that the CoT is not above 4D space.
 
I disagree because blatant incorrect interpretation is blatant.

Nothing remotely suggests mathematical dimension on that Japanese text, it wouldn't even make sense from a databook stand point if it did.


CoT has it's contradictions, just stating something is superdimensional isn't enough for 5D when you literally do not portray that.
 
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