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It being Low-2C comes from the Daizenshuu stating it to be extra-dimensional, not the episode summary.
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Downgrading the cosmology. Oooo, spooky. (Dragon Ball)
- Thread starter Nullflowerblush
- Start date
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Then wouldn’t Grand Kai’s world being referred to as such, as well as being called a universe in the episode summary, prove it’s a Low 2-C structure?
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And how did we determine the meaning of "extra-dimensional" among the many possible interpretations?
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"It's just supporting evidence" isn't an argument to discard a statement.
Neutral for now.
Neutral for now.
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ask the staff that is agreeing with it here, apparently summaries are not enough evidence on its own, i now chance my stance to neutral instead of agreeing
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Personally I think it could be enough, though I’m still somewhat neutral due to the sheer lack of context that the “until the end of the universe” statement has
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Name these interpretations?
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It's both
It's 異次元空間 (Ijigenkūkan) wich means "Different dimensional space" or "space of a different dimension", "Other-dimensional space", etc. Which basically is supposed to mean the space of a different dimension.
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I also don't understand what Op wants to say with his half-assed interpretation, which is to say that "the battlefield stretched into outer space, and both sides never gave up, trading their special moves until the end of the universe"
It's described to be a "universe", I'm not seeing a downgrade, but rather a bad interpretation by Null of wanting to downgrade everything.
It's described to be a "universe", I'm not seeing a downgrade, but rather a bad interpretation by Null of wanting to downgrade everything.
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extradimensional - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
- (science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe.
- (science fiction) Coming from a world outside Einsteinian space-time.
A pocket dimension outside of the universe would appropriately be called "extradimensional."
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I'll leave it up to you, I'll go to work and I'll be right back.
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Knowing that this definition already applies to anything existing within the Otherworld as it is outside the 'physical reality of the universe', what makes you think that this is the correct interpretation to take?extradimensional - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
en.wiktionary.org
- (science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe.
- (science fiction) Coming from a world outside Einsteinian space-time.
A pocket dimension outside of the universe would appropriately be called "extradimensional."
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If "extradimensional" is appropriate for realms outside the primary universe, it is simple enough to see that using it within the context of Otherworld would also refer to realms outside the primary space of Otherworld.
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Generally?
Anything.
I've always seen it said that saying that someone or some space is "super dimensional" or "extra dimensional" or anything dimensional means nothing if you don't have enough context anymore.
I don't know if there is one, but there it is.
Serlock_Holmes
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Main reason I have for the size of this space is because the planets seems like big rocks and it has a ceiling and such.
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If.
If the series uses extra-dimensional to refer to realms outside of the living world's Universe. But that isn't the case. The Otherworld, the RoSaT, Sugoroku Space, none of the realms outside the primary universe are referred to as extra-dimensional. Extra-dimensional is explicitly used here to make the seperation between it and the Otherworld as different space-time continuums, further accentuated by it being referred as it's own universe in further supplementary texts.
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Of course, "宇宙" (Uchu) means "universe", but it's also very often also used just with the meaning of space/outer space instead of meaning the entirety of a universe or something like that. In fact, I'm almost sure that is machine translation and you can notice that because it says first "outer space" and then "universe" for the same kanji.
If one would specify outer space, in general, they could use "宇宙空間" (Uchū kūkan), but even that can get into the problem of general meaning because it literally means "space of the universe", so it could also be used to describe all of the universe's space other than the astronomical use of merely "outer space". This just goes on to show how important context is (In fact, although Uchū by definition means all of time and space, most Japanese general astronomers would say that they just never use it to include time anymore, and is just used to describe generic outer space).
In that text, it could be something to discuss if it's called "宇宙" (Uchu) because they went to a generic outer space with stars and not something to say it's a literal universe-sized construct. (Japanese really be fun to discuss if "universe" really means universe).
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bruh
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In the end whether the downgrade goes through or not is more reliant on the semantics of 'extra-dimensional' than it's universal size, it seems
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Well, if the evidence for it's size being universal is also poor, then that is an important factor in favor of the OP.
Nullflowerblush
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funny because other world being described as "extra-dimensional" has never been accepted as proof of being a separate space-time
A translation by Herm is not "official".
Again, an episode summary is supplementary information (hype, essentially), and this instance (or, interpretation) is particularly egregious, because, again, not a single line of dialogue in the entire episode is ever spared to mention "the universe" or "the end of the universe" or anything close. The furthest Goku and Pikkon ever travel is the ceiling, which they reach by flipping and turning after being launched by an explosion.
uh, nor does the episode involve cell returning from self-destruction and killing trunks. that would be episode 188.
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In the show all we see is a giant star-filled pocket dimension, and we are not told it's exact size, low end or high end. That info which is irrelevant to the plot but relevant to power scaling, is given to us via official supplementary information, by the episode summary. A summary literally written by the dudes adjacent to the guys who wrote this filler in the first place, who created this area in the first place.
You choose to ignore it. You think THAT is poor. Alright
And you've got people in this thread telling you that the original kanji signifies the same meaning, I can bring you a native Japanese speaker and odds are he'd end up saying the same thing. But I guess that's not enough, right
On the side of it being universal in size and extra-dimensional, you have official sources that are non-contradictory to the source material and supplementary to it. On the side of those in disagreement, you have people choosing to disregard OFFICIAL SOURCES of supplementary information, because they don't like the reality of it being stated to be extra-dimensional on one side, or believing that it's only a slight downgrade so it must be okay on the other side, who cares about what the evidence actually points to.
I've laid out the evidence I have as clear as you've laid out your opinions, but from how the wiki's structure works opinions from red and green banners are higher quality sources than official ones. Proceed as usual, i guess.
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Yes. that is essentially the situation. I don't think the episode summary matters much at all. You can hammer away at the word "official" as much as you like, but I don't really agree with using it, and it seems that even if we took it at face value there's too much ambiguity in the original japanese to assume it's referring to a universe-sized space.
Serlock_Holmes
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It does seem like the summary was written with so much attention that it also has the plot of a random past episode.
Nullflowerblush
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Didn't that guy up there say it meant "another dimension"?
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If it’s too speculative, I’d still probably say the Grand Kai world is possibly a universe, just not a separate space-time (basically, 3-A instead of Low 2-C)extradimensional - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
- (science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe.
- (science fiction) Coming from a world outside Einsteinian space-time.
A pocket dimension outside of the universe would appropriately be called "extradimensional."
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I also have objections to it being considered universal in size, detailed above.
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I don't think that necessarily matters because the main thing here is just removing this from the number of space-times factored into Universe 7
Serlock_Holmes
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I have more problems with the size than it being a different space time.
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Not sure if I can agree with this, I mean it being called an another universe, being a different dimensional space/extra-dimensional should be enough to be considered it's own low 2-C structure, I don't think luffy using saint seiya panels really contributed to the argument at all in the first place, so I don't think it really serves as a valid debunk to this thread. I mean like what more do you want? It's called a different dimension, another universe, as far as we know you can't get there by physical travel, only through a door way. This could literally be the same situation with the ROSAT, how it's a separate spacetime that you can only get to by a door of some sort. And it is clearly not apart of the afterlife except for through one entrance. I'm gonna try to find the episode in subbed with the ceiling statement.
Nullflowerblush
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Don't bother? I already did? Question mark?
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what did it say
Nullflowerblush
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Technically speaking, without involving semantics, within all respect, yes there is non-integer dimensions.
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Agree fra
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And people still say DB is being forcibly
downplayed
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This is sus. The pot shots at Luffy, the way this arguments comes down to semantics, the snide title, the 'how did this get through to begin with' jabs, I'm neutral for now but yeah, after this I'm not particularly enthused to go back to the DB topic thread and stop people from talking about bias.
And don't we still have another downgrade going on rn? It's hard to take the comment above mine seriously when when I hear people talk about shutting down upgrade threads because of CRT limits but then this comes out.
And don't we still have another downgrade going on rn? It's hard to take the comment above mine seriously when when I hear people talk about shutting down upgrade threads because of CRT limits but then this comes out.
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