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Dragon Ball Conceptual Manipulation End Closing

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I disagree for reasons already stated, not only because I think the evidence hardly points to it, but because of how easily it doesn't have to be conceptual. Concepts are generally divided into two categories, nominalist and realist, in the former "concepts" are just general labels for a phenomenon with a mentally perceived existence, for example we have a "concept" of time due to the passage of time, this does not indicate time as a "concept" is an entity. Realists are the opposite, they would hold that there is a conceptual entity that IS time and of course contains its particulars. The key thing to remember though, time in itself is already established as a fundamental existence, as the dimension of time.


What that means, is you can easily have "time" exist without its concept in a structure because there's already a non-realist view pertaining to that kind of "thing". As such
we need to review the scans as to what part seems literal and what is metaphorical, and THEN if it is literal to establish whether it is a physical (physics) entity or an abstraction. So I hope I'm not grossly being too reductionistic here.

First:
That which doesn't belong to the world. Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1] .Figure 1 (図1) refers to the standard diagram of the Macrocosm that was depicted on the page previous to it. There isn't a concept of Time or Space there, they are located between dimensions and detached from any area.
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It is a different dimensional world that does not belong to any part of the world, and includes the "Room of Spirit and Time" in the Temple of God and the interdimensional "Sugoroku Space". The concept of time is different in the "Room of Spirit and Time," and a year here corresponds to one day in the outside world
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These two are kind of hard to separate because the context is integral, but it is said there is no concept of time/space, I do not think this is metaphorical but are these conceptual entities? No. The second quote which states the concept of time is different in the RoSaT, is based on a physical correspondence (though I should say inequality) to the Outside world which I'm guessing just refers to the living world (?). The law in terms of physical temporality are slightly shifted, I think this should point towards a material viewpoint of time as an existence, which would make sense given Goku and vegeta if i recall came out looking like homeless people after completing some training.

Anyway, we aren't quite finished here yet because only the RoSaT was really described, but it is the staple of my point. What exactly does it mean to lack the concept of space and time based on that usage of concept [and this will be important for the next point.]? To me it only seems that "lacking the concept" of a particular thing like time means to not be subject to a universally applicable set of physical laws regarding them, but that does sound head-canonish so why do I think that, well if my memory serves me correctly the afterlife is also stated to be outside time/have no time, but the context was because super saiyan 3 used up too much energy too fast, which is an indication that there exists a "notion" of time, narratively speaking since it's inside a continuum, but its function allows for the flow of time to not be an adherence for taking up energy.

Anyway this brings us to the second point:
"The place where the tournament of power will take place is a dimension where the concepts of space and time do not exist. The Realm of Nothingness can be controlled by the Great Priest and although it has limitations, at the same time it allows each fighter to fight in the gravity conditions of their own planet. Its combat arena is made of a very resistant material: Ultra Resistant Material."
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If we follow up from my initial premise, is this statement literal? Yes, 100%, probably more substantive than the Subspace one, but let's use the same kind of analysis; there is no direct time flow or "notion" of space presumably because it is not of a universe or localized manifold, however it does allow for the laws of physics and thus space/time to be created, the laws of gravity as seen are specially altered for every individual to match not only their own birth world but be equivocal to everyone else, this must mean that it's not exactly a conceptual entity but a physical one, I think you'd have to be reaching in order to say "Well clearly the concept of gravity as a whole was just divided for everyone" Not exactly...how it works.... different gravitational effects (ones of a planet explicitly mind you) are because of the mass and energy bending the fabric of space/time, so the person that created the arena and its conditions must be manipulating already existent aspects.

I think it's possible to prove type 3 but even so, the argument is shaky because why can't it be the creation of those physical constants, it really doesn't have to be the abstract object which represents the constant, and that's why I think everyone is really overlooking the problem of this thread. So just like Fujiwara said, do i have news for you, it seems to be referring to material constants and applications of space/time, if you want to prove it's CM, you need to explain the nature of those fundamental things, you can't just grant it a status of a concept.

All in all, that's why I disagree, the mechanics of dragon ball's cosmology which by no means am I an expert on seem to use these abilities and words to refer not to abstractions, but the actual fabric of the universes and alternate spaces as having different "laws" and perceptions based on physical manifestations. But if it can be proven they are conceptual, I guess type 3 would have to go for the ability at least based on the evidence, maybe type 2 for time or whatever. Anyway that's my two cents.
 
I've already added how you disagree, as do your little friends.

But what a shame, unfortunately you arrived late
 
Don't wait on me. My stance on the Concept Manip has actually changed (I don't think it should be a thing for the Grand Priest anymore, because looking at the scene again, the Grand Priest doesn't actually need to be adding time to the World of Void - just manually changing the visual effects when the pillar drops to a certain point), but I don't want to be the guy that doesn't bring up concerns until the very end of a thread given that I hate that sorta thing myself.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Don't wait on me. My stance on the Concept Manip has actually changed (I don't think it should be a thing for the Grand Priest anymore, because looking at the scene again, the Grand Priest doesn't actually need to be adding time to the World of Void - just manually changing the visual effects when the pillar drops to a certain point), but I don't want to be the guy that doesn't bring up concerns until the very end of a thread given that I hate that sorta thing myself.
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I understand, so I'm going to go ahead and ask to bear applying this.
 
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