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No, the order went:
-A bunch of CRTs happen
-Someone points out there's a lot
-Someone else says there is a rule increasing the amount of CRTs that can be made
-This thread is made.
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Downgrading the cosmology. Oooo, spooky. (Dragon Ball)
- Thread starter Nullflowerblush
- Start date
- Status
-A bunch of CRTs happen
-Someone points out there's a lot
-Someone else says there is a rule increasing the amount of CRTs that can be made
-This thread is made.
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Good to know, thx
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Nobody monitors it.
And for big verses there's always more, even if it's not something concrete.
I don't think there is any list of "This verse can have x crts in a row"
People just say "The verse is really big and popular, so there has to be more than usual"
But again, nobody monitors it, unless it's an extremely large number, like what Nase had with almost 10 crts at the same time, something like that.
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Okay, that makes sense, I saw someone trying to get some upgrade threads shut down because there was a 'rule' so I was confused
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I mean "a rule" has. But nobody did something concrete like "This verse can even have x crts at the same time"
Whenever someone asks about it, people always say "That verse is big and popular, so it might get more crts than usual", and that's it.
For example, in OPM there were many crts at the same time, and someone asked "isn't there a limit of crts?" and users just said "The verse is big and popular so there could be more". And it stayed that way.
I've never seen a staff member monitoring this and I've never seen a list or anything like how many crts a verse can have when the verse is "big and popular"
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,999
- 7,761
- Thread starter
- #86
The entire subject boils down to semantics, to how the Japanese text is intended to be interpreted.
And, apparently...
...the Japanese text is never meant to be interpreted as "separate space-time" or "universal in size".
I could be wrong, though. I could be misinterpreting N0's messages.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,999
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- #87
What are the counter arguments again?
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There's a lot of "it could be" but why does it have to mean its not literal, and you just brushed off the summary of the episode as supporting evidence and can be ignored, why? Like it literally tells us it's as big as a universe, and an extra dimensional space in this context.
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Thing is, it is too nebulous if it even said universe in the original japanese, also extra dimensional doesn't = space time on its own
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,999
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- #90
"as big as a universe"?
Japanese is a very contextual language.
For example, 宇宙 has three different meanings; "universe", "cosmos", and "outer space", all of which are used in varying measures depending entirely on text; like how 星 can mean "star" or "planet" (Lord Boros, anybody?). In the context of the episode summary, "universe" is completely and utterly erroneous. Again, not a single line of dialogue is ever spared to mention the universe or compare the Anomalous Space to the universe, for that matter. Previous context in the text, that being "The battle spreads to outer space", lends itself to 宇宙 referring to "outer space", rather than "universe".
Y'know the funniest part?
Guess what kanji is machine translated into "outer space" and what kanji is translated into "universe".
The answer is 宇宙. For the two of 'em.
How weird that the only two instances of 宇宙 are translated differently by the machine.
How weird that Japanese astronomers refer to 宇宙 as "a [representation] of the expanse of space", denouncing its relation to the dimension of time.
"an extra dimensional space in this context"?
異次元空間, or "different dimensional space", not a separate space-time, not an "extra-dimensional space".
For comparison, "extra-dimensional" is 超次元; "higher-dimensional" is 高次元.
異 is "different"; 高 is "higher"; 超 is "super"/"extra".
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uh dont we have enough staff agreements
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,999
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- #92
I'd like to hash out the discussion with the opposing side first.
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48hrs since the thread's creation haven't passed yet
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We have like 3-4 staff agreements so yea.
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Why did you agree with the original CRT
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That has been addressed already
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That the official episode summary was not proof enough for some reason?
That one?
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Because it wasn't proof of it being its own universe
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The word used is too ambiguous to say thst it said "universe"
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An episode summary is not canon unless it is written by the author themselves. Most of the time, the site provider does those summaries.
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Depends on the production, in that case, it's from Toei itself. It's not like a random magazine, and even those sometimes are stuff that is added from the setting of the staff itself. In a way, it's no different from how the Movie booklets had summaries of this stuff, they most likely will never be written by the author itself, but someone else at the production that got the approval to do that (And even in the cases someone does without approval, since it was done by an official, it becomes approval. There's a funny case in Digimon, done by the same company as DB in general, were someone just added lore to a character without any approval and they had to just move on with that because it was done by someone official).
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Mind proving it? If you don't mind. I am not saying the possibility does not exist, I am saying it is unlikely in our first assumption.
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The summary is from the Toei Line-up website, where they feature the history of their productions, like movies and series, and has information on the development and summaries of each work. Here is the Dragon Ball Z episode page if you want to check it.
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Why can't different dimension be proof of it being a separate spacetime? Seems you can't get there any other way but the doorway, so physical travel between the two is not possible. 宇宙 the japanese wikipedia even considers it to mean all of spacetime in the throughout past, present, and future also.
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why would it being a different dimension be proof of a different space time? not every alternate dimension is another space time
it is one of the possible meanings yes, but as said here by @Executor_N0 it is very dubious if it is saying "universe" or "outer space" in the text, japanese is heavily context based, so we would need more evidence than the word itself to determine a specific meaning
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,999
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- #107
I- I'm lost.
And, since when has "physical travel between the two is impossible" been proof of a separate space-time? Physical travel being impossible means that, the spaces are different. Nothing about time.
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Can we just apply this CRT already? It's going nowhere.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,999
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- Thread starter
- #109
bump
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,999
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- Thread starter
- #110
bump
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this was already applied
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was that?
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The word "Uchu" although very clearly has the meaning of Universe (It's even how universes are called in DBS), it's also used a lot of times just to describe a generic outer space. In that case, saying that Goku and Paikuhan "went out into Uchu" might just translate as "went out into outer space" rather than specifying it's a universe-sized dimension. It could definitely be the case, but more often than not here things are first accepted at the lowest interpretation possible, so it would be just a 4-A realm.
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I scored wrong
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One question, if "uchu" is the mornak way universes are said in the verse, why not assume that's the case here? Wouldn't that be the case of consistency within the verse?
Or has DBZ/DBZ also used it to mean outer space in any other context?
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You'd need to prove that's the case, I believe.
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Read the comment I quoted, he himself said it's how they call universes in DBS
Nullflowerblush
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