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DOOM - Tier 1 Cosmology Proposal

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HammerStrikes219 said:
I already did and all it says is higher dimensional and all that, man. So don’t just bruh me like that anyway

Edit: Also mentions 3 dimensional space being part of a 4 dimensional construct so.
Click to expand...
Broski, he's talking about the universe as we know it, which is 3 dimensional. the hyperspace, which contains it is of a higher dimension, and is therefore 4d
The constructs we're talking about are 4d (2-A) which would make the hyperspace 5d.
 
Hellscream said:
Broski, he's talking about the universe as we know it, which is 3 dimensional. the hyperspace, which contains it is of a higher dimension, and is therefore 4d
The constructs we're talking about are 4d (2-A) which would make the hyperspace 5d.
Click to expand...
That is assuming it is a hyperspace which isn’t necessarily the case.
 
Btw idk why you posted the dragon ball cosmology revision, it's not really relevant in this case, we're not talking about low 2-c constructs, we're talking about 2-A constructs.
 
Hellscream said:
Btw idk why you posted the dragon ball cosmology revision, it's not really relevant in this case, we're not talking about low 2-c constructs, we're talking about 2-A constructs.
Click to expand...
It kinda applies here as it ultimately relied on context and the interpretation of that context. Anyway, I unfollowed this thread since I am neutral
 
Eficiente said:
I don't know what is this saying in this context, I think that's about degrees of AP in 2-A. Could you deconstruct the meaning of it in a patient way?
Click to expand...
I'll be able to elaborate more later due to IRL stuff going on, but in the meantime, here are some other of Ultima's other statements on the topic.

"There is no such thing as countably infinitely larger than infinite volume."

"Because being countably or finitely larger than an infinite space isn't a thing, as demonstrated by our 2-A standards, the smallest possible jump is a skip to +1 dimension."
 
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Firestorm808 said:
The reason I ask for examples is to understand if there is a precedent to this situation. You would think this kind of structure is not uncommon.

Take, for example, Arceus:

Davoth and Arceus both lived in a plane larger than the multiple 2-A structures they created.
Davoth and Arceus both have their created 2-A realms as a part of their being, meaning their existence is superior to the 2-A 4-D part of the verse, thus it should qualify as superior enough to 4-D to qualify as Low 1-C.

"It should also be noted that, even in our FAQ's section of the sites Tiering System page, we note that anything that is superior in nature to that of 4D space-time should be considered Low 1-C."

Per the Ultima for the Arceus thread: "There is no such thing as being "countably infinitely larger" than the whole of a real coordinate space. For instance, if you are a 4-dimensional object (existing in a field defined over the reals), you either are smaller than R^4 or the same size as it. By definition, you can't be a 4-dimensional object and be larger than that simultaneously."
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if this is helpful, but there's this character who is Low 1-C because a 2-A structure was too small for her to perceive or exist inside of and she needed to divide herself infinitely in order to fit inside and observe each and every one of them.
 
So what are our staff conclusions here so far?
 
Antvasima said:
So what are our staff conclusions here so far?
Click to expand...
  1. I support the viability of Low 1-C.
  2. @Ultima_Reality
    1. Says I have valid supporting evidence, but he will give his official reply when he is available.
  3. @DarkDragonMedeus
    1. The last update says, "okay with possibly Low 1-C."
  4. @Eficiente
    1. Currently disagrees. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
  5. @Everything12
    1. Currently disagrees. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
Davoth is similar to Arceus:
Davoth and Arceus both lived in a plane larger than the multiple 2-A structures they created.
Davoth and Arceus both created 2-A realms as a part of their being.

Per the Ultima for the Arceus thread: "There is no such thing as being "countably infinitely larger" than the whole of a real coordinate space. For instance, if you are a 4-dimensional object (existing in a field defined over the reals), you either are smaller than R^4 or the same size as it. By definition, you can't be a 4-dimensional object and be larger than that simultaneously."

"There is no such thing as countably infinitely larger than infinite volume."

"Because being countably or finitely larger than an infinite space isn't a thing, as demonstrated by our 2-A standards, the smallest possible jump is a skip to +1 dimension."

Object A exists in the larger Space B. Object A has infinite 4-D volume. To still be 4-D, Space B needs to be smaller or equal to Infinite 4-D. You cannot be 4-D and larger than infinite 4-D simultaneously. Space B needs to be 5-D.
 
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Firestorm808 said:
Object A exists in the larger Space B. Object A has infinite 4-D volume. To still be 4-D, Space B needs to be smaller or equal to Infinite 4-D. You cannot be 4-D and larger than infinite 4-D simultaneously. Space B needs to be 5-D.
Click to expand...
Well
  • It's a bit paradoxical. If you mean Space B being larger as in its dimensionality then that's one thing, but lower dimensional things can be larger around higher dimensional things, just not cover them whole. You can draw a big line across a smaller 2-D square, put a 3-D cube in the middle of & through a larger 2-D space, and so on. If the thing that makes Space B special in a verse is that "beings live in it" or "it's a notable place known about", then so what?
  • If you don't say "Object A has infinite 4-D volume" as a fact, but a conclusion you make based on what it is (A multiverse), then it should be easier to visualize how Space B is 4-D, and Object A's limits are where the multiverse ends rather than where the 4-D space ends.
  • Outside this context, higher dimensional spaces can exist w/o the spaces outside them being higher. Remove here the fact that Space B is larger and if Object A exist in a self-contained way, bigger in the inside than how it is outside then the space outside it can be of a lower dimensionality.
 
Eficiente said:
It's a bit paradoxical. If you mean Space B being larger as in its dimensionality then that's one thing, but lower dimensional things can be larger around higher dimensional things, just not cover them whole. You can draw a big line across a smaller 2-D square, put a 3-D cube in the middle of & through a larger 2-D space, and so on. If the thing that makes Space B special in a verse is that "beings live in it" or "it's a notable place known about", then so what?
Click to expand...
I don't see how this applies since this is regarding finite units of dimensions. Yes, a 2 m square can be "bigger" than a 1 cm cube. However, the current situation involves 2-A structures being infinite in all four dimensions.
Eficiente said:
If you don't say "Object A has infinite 4-D volume" as a fact, but a conclusion you make based on what it is (A multiverse), then it should be easier to visualize how Space B is 4-D, and Object A's limits are where the multiverse ends rather than where the 4-D space ends.
Click to expand...
As we mentioned prior, the multiple 2-A structures are infinite in all four dimensions.

It would be best if @Ultima_Reality could clarify and elaborate more on the matter.
 
Firestorm808 said:
  1. I support the viability of Low 1-C.
  2. @Ultima_Reality
    1. Says I have valid supporting evidence, but he will give his official reply when he is available.
  3. @DarkDragonMedeus
    1. The last update says, "okay with possibly Low 1-C."
  4. @Eficiente
    1. Currently disagrees. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
  5. @Everything12
    1. Currently disagrees. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
Davoth is similar to Arceus:
Davoth and Arceus both lived in a plane larger than the multiple 2-A structures they created.
Davoth and Arceus both created 2-A realms as a part of their being.

Per the Ultima for the Arceus thread: "There is no such thing as being "countably infinitely larger" than the whole of a real coordinate space. For instance, if you are a 4-dimensional object (existing in a field defined over the reals), you either are smaller than R^4 or the same size as it. By definition, you can't be a 4-dimensional object and be larger than that simultaneously."

"There is no such thing as countably infinitely larger than infinite volume."

"Because being countably or finitely larger than an infinite space isn't a thing, as demonstrated by our 2-A standards, the smallest possible jump is a skip to +1 dimension."

Object A exists in the larger Space B. Object A has infinite 4-D volume. To still be 4-D, Space B needs to be smaller or equal to Infinite 4-D. You cannot be 4-D and larger than infinite 4-D simultaneously. Space B needs to be 5-D.
Click to expand...
@Qawsedf234 @Elizhaa @Pain_to12 @KingPin0422

What do you think about this?
 
Firestorm808 said:
  1. I support the viability of Low 1-C.
  2. @Ultima_Reality
    1. Says I have valid supporting evidence, but he will give his official reply when he is available.
  3. @DarkDragonMedeus
    1. The last update says, "okay with possibly Low 1-C."
  4. @Eficiente
    1. Currently disagrees. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
  5. @Everything12
    1. Currently disagrees. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
Davoth is similar to Arceus:
Davoth and Arceus both lived in a plane larger than the multiple 2-A structures they created.
Davoth and Arceus both created 2-A realms as a part of their being.

Per the Ultima for the Arceus thread: "There is no such thing as being "countably infinitely larger" than the whole of a real coordinate space. For instance, if you are a 4-dimensional object (existing in a field defined over the reals), you either are smaller than R^4 or the same size as it. By definition, you can't be a 4-dimensional object and be larger than that simultaneously."

"There is no such thing as countably infinitely larger than infinite volume."

"Because being countably or finitely larger than an infinite space isn't a thing, as demonstrated by our 2-A standards, the smallest possible jump is a skip to +1 dimension."

Object A exists in the larger Space B. Object A has infinite 4-D volume. To still be 4-D, Space B needs to be smaller or equal to Infinite 4-D. You cannot be 4-D and larger than infinite 4-D simultaneously. Space B needs to be 5-D.
Click to expand...
Read through the thread and I should ask since I cant seem to find it
1. Is there proof of ontological difference between higher dimensions and
2. Where is the scan that says hell holds multiple 2-A structures?
 
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Pain_to12 said:
2. Where is the scan that says hell holds multiple 2-A structures?
Click to expand...
That's not the argument. The argument is that The Void that Hell & The Multiverse exists in is 5-D and Davoth is too for existing within the Void before Davoth created everything, since The Void contains Hell & the Multiverse, which are both 2-A.

I don't really care if this upgrade happens, so count me as neutral if my vote matters, but at the very least don't misrepresent arguments for either side, yeah?
 
Axxtentacle said:
That's not the argument. The argument is that The Void that Hell & The Multiverse exists in is 5-D and Davoth is too for existing within the Void before Davoth created everything, since The Void contains Hell & the Multiverse, which are both 2-A.

I don't really care if this upgrade happens, so count me as neutral if my vote matters, but at the very least don't misrepresent arguments for either side, yeah?
Click to expand...
I was literally asking a question not misinterpreting anything
 
Can somebody write a tally for which members that think what here please?
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody write a tally for which members that think what here please?
Click to expand...
  1. Agree
    1. @Firestorm808
      1. I support the viability of Low 1-C.
    2. @Ultima_Reality
      1. Says I have valid supporting evidence, but he will give his official reply when he is available.
    3. @DarkDragonMedeus
      1. The last update says, "okay with possibly Low 1-C."
    4. @Donatien
    5. @Gewsbumpz_dude
    6. @Another_Council
    7. @CurrySenpai
    8. @Greatsage13th
    9. @ZeedKZ
    10. @Jamesthetaker
    11. @Veloxt1r0kore
    12. @Transcending
    13. @Romeu08
    14. @Yemma670
    15. @DTG499
    16. @Scottycj256
    17. @Oliver_de_jesus
    18. @Vietthai96
    19. @Hellscream
    20. @Axxtentacle
  2. Disagree
    1. @Eficiente
      1. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
    2. @Everything12
      1. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
    3. @Cat
  3. Neutral
    1. @Shmooply
    2. @HammerStrikes219
 
Firestorm808 said:
  1. Agree
    1. @Firestorm808
      1. I support the viability of Low 1-C.
    2. @Ultima_Reality
      1. Says I have valid supporting evidence, but he will give his official reply when he is available.
    3. @DarkDragonMedeus
      1. The last update says, "okay with possibly Low 1-C."
    4. @Donatien
    5. @Gewsbumpz_dude
    6. @Another_Council
    7. @CurrySenpai
    8. @Greatsage13th
    9. @ZeedKZ
    10. @Jamesthetaker
    11. @Veloxt1r0kore
    12. @Transcending
    13. @Romeu08
    14. @Yemma670
    15. @DTG499
    16. @Scottycj256
    17. @Oliver_de_jesus
    18. @Vietthai96
    19. @Hellscream
    20. @Axxtentacle
  2. Disagree
    1. @Eficiente
      1. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
    2. @Everything12
      1. Currently in discussion regarding Infinite 4-D 2-A Structures and 5-D.
    3. @Cat
  3. Neutral
    1. @Shmooply
    2. @HammerStrikes219
Click to expand...
Thank you.

@Firestorm808 @Ultima_Reality @DarkDragonMedeus @Eficiente @Everything12

Can you discuss the issue between yourselves and try to reach a consensus please?
 
Firestorm808 said:
Can you translate that into an example on the site? Can you give me an example of a realm that isn't Low 1-C even though it contains multiple 2-A Structures?
Click to expand...
I don't think this was really explained well.
Same way a larger 3-D space can hold a smaller one, a 4-D space can also hold multiple smaller ones.
Now it was mentioned that what if the 4-D space is infinite, while it's true that the larger Space in this case can no longer be infinitely larger than it but it can still be, since 0.001% of an infinity is still infinite.
Aside that I can't think of anymore examples.

So far if the Void was stated to be above hell and the other 2-A structures and there was a former proof of ontological difference among higher D and lower realms, then low 1-C can be possible
 
@Pain_to12

To clarify my earlier request of "Can you give me an example of a realm that isn't Low 1-C even though it contains multiple 2-A Structures?" I meant in regards to our site profiles. This kind of structure is not uncommon.

Take for example Arceus.

Davoth and Arceus both lived in the primodial plane larger than the multiple 2-A structures they created.
Davoth and Arceus both have their created 2-A realm as a small part of their being.
Davoth and Arceus' 2-A realm are infinite in length, width, height, and time.
 
Firestorm808 said:
@Pain_to12

To clarify my earlier request of "Can you give me an example of a realm that isn't Low 1-C even though it contains multiple 2-A Structures?" I meant in regards to our site profiles. This kind of structure is not uncommon.
Click to expand...
Yes, very uncommon. I can't think of any within this wiki so I guess just theoretically.
Firestorm808 said:
Take for example Arceus.

Davoth and Arceus both lived in the primodial plane larger than the multiple 2-A structures they created.
Davoth and Arceus both have their created 2-A realm as a small part of their being.
Davoth and Arceus' 2-A realm are infinite in length, width, height, and time.
Click to expand...
Was this the reason for their low 1-C.
 
My apologies for forgetting to include you in my summon above, Pain_to12.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Yes, very uncommon. I can't think of any within this wiki so I guess just theoretically.

Was this the reason for their low 1-C.
Click to expand...
I actually said it was "not uncommon."

I suppose a similar example of this kind of structure is the Low 1-C Bleed and the 1-C Orrey of Worlds in DC Comics. The Bleed contains the 2-A Structure, and the Orrey contains the Bleed.

A simplified version of the explanation. Here's the original Arceus Thread.

Pain_to12 said:
I don't think this was really explained well.
Same way a larger 3-D space can hold a smaller one, a 4-D space can also hold multiple smaller ones.
Now it was mentioned that what if the 4-D space is infinite, while it's true that the larger Space in this case can no longer be infinitely larger than it but it can still be, since 0.001% of an infinity is still infinite.
Aside that I can't think of anymore examples.

So far if the Void was stated to be above hell and the other 2-A structures and there was a former proof of ontological difference among higher D and lower realms, then low 1-C can be possible
Click to expand...
Here are the current admin statements on the tiering system regarding 2-A and Low 1-C

"There is no such thing as being "countably infinitely larger" than the whole of a real coordinate space. For instance, if you are a 4-dimensional object (existing in a field defined over the reals), you either are smaller than R^4 or the same size as it. By definition, you can't be a 4-dimensional object and be larger than that simultaneously."

"There is no such thing as countably infinitely larger than infinite volume."

"Because being countably or finitely larger than an infinite space isn't a thing, as demonstrated by our 2-A standards, the smallest possible jump is a skip to +1 dimension."
 
Last edited:
Firestorm808 said:
I actually said it was "not uncommon."

I suppose a similar example of this kind of structure is the Low 1-C Bleed and the 1-C Orrey of Worlds in DC Comics. The Bleed contains the 2-A Structure, and the Orrey contains the Bleed.

A simplified version of the explanation. Here's the original Arceus Thread.


Here are the current admin statements on the tiering system regarding 2-A and Low 1-C

"There is no such thing as being "countably infinitely larger" than the whole of a real coordinate space. For instance, if you are a 4-dimensional object (existing in a field defined over the reals), you either are smaller than R^4 or the same size as it. By definition, you can't be a 4-dimensional object and be larger than that simultaneously."

"There is no such thing as countably infinitely larger than infinite volume."

"Because being countably or finitely larger than an infinite space isn't a thing, as demonstrated by our 2-A standards, the smallest possible jump is a skip to +1 dimension."
Click to expand...
Then I don't see the issue, if the Void realm contains multiple 2-A space that are infinite in size then at least a "possibly Low 1-C" is warranted
 
So what is the consensus here so far?
 
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