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Demonbane Mythos Ultimate Revision - Return of the Strongest Mecha of All Time

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Crazy thread if true, what tier would my platonic close life partner Al Azzy be though if it's accepted
67061.jpg
 
Done fixing the opening post, already deleted other unnecessary posts, please go and check it.
Please read Coston's revision thread only AFTER you've at least done reading my Cosmology's posts.
The thread is a massive wall of text, there's no other way to shorten it because every single content matters. So take your time, no need to rush.
 
Scathan_The_Celestial said:
@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT

Handle outer shit
Click to expand...
We are still currently discussing with Ultima, last weekend he suggested a High 1-A tiering for the hyperdimension. The problem is he only replies to our message in Sunday and then disappears for the rest of the week until the next Sunday. So the discussion's progress is very slow, we still have not moved on to anything above the hyperdimension.
 
Not quite relevant but somewhat just nitpicking on the presentation of the respect thread, where does this talk about 'Super Demonbane' come in? I've read Gunshin Kyoushuu and there's no such thing as a Super Demonbane. The Demonbane in question is Demonbane Mars. Where is this translation of 'Super Demonbane' coming from exactly? Or is this just a fan term?
 
Accelerate420 said:
Not quite relevant but somewhat just nitpicking on the presentation of the respect thread, where does this talk about 'Super Demonbane' come in? I've read Gunshin Kyoushuu and there's no such thing as a Super Demonbane. The Demonbane in question is Demonbane Mars. Where is this translation of 'Super Demonbane' coming from exactly? Or is this just a fan term?
Click to expand...
Super Demonbane is called as such because it was summoned as a "god" and was classified as a "Super Deus Machina"
 
Accelerate420 said:
Not quite relevant but somewhat just nitpicking on the presentation of the respect thread, where does this talk about 'Super Demonbane' come in? I've read Gunshin Kyoushuu and there's no such thing as a Super Demonbane. The Demonbane in question is Demonbane Mars. Where is this translation of 'Super Demonbane' coming from exactly? Or is this just a fan term?
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as Mars Demonbane, on the contrary, it is a fan term because that Demonbane is summoned on Mars. Super Demonbane is a legit term because it is classified as a "Super Deus Machina", i.e, Chou Kikaishin (too lazy to copy the Kanji, but the RT has Japanese texts so look it by yourself).
 
Mugen_no_Setsuna said:
There is no such thing as Mars Demonbane, on the contrary, it is a fan term because that Demonbane is summoned on Mars. Super Demonbane is a legit term because it is classified as a "Super Deus Machina", i.e, Chou Kikaishin (too lazy to copy the Kanji, but the RT has Japanese texts so look it by yourself).
Click to expand...
Oh, that's where you got it. I believe you, I was just curious. Didn't pick up on that myself.
 
@Mugen_no_Setsuna Here is a comprehensive summary of my revision:

My threads for further reading, albeit it can be difficult to grasp for casual readers:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-gen...helon-of-demonbane-mythos.150547/post-5583005
https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-gen...helon-of-demonbane-mythos.150547/post-5548704

More references can be found in Hierarchy of Stories and Stages:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/demonbane-mythos-official-respect-thread.138905/post-5516780

The summary is I proposed the Baseline Universe (the spiritual dimension and the abyss of magic are irrelevant) to be H1B by its hierarchy of story-universes within story-universes, as "story" is a concept introduced in Kishin Hishou where every being, be that paranormal or mortal hold within universes that represent their worldview and belief, and without a "story", they will literally fade out of existence. It sounds metafictional, but it is a real thing in Kishin Hishou, where Another Blood struggles to hold own her existence since she lacks a "story", and when she unleashes the "story" within Al Azif, that comes out as infinite worlds of endless diversities, "story" is repeatedly stated as worlds and universes throughout Kishin Hishou.

Back the hierarchy of stories, everyone hold within themselves universes or whatever, with each being infinite due to one has a Zeno's Paradox, or at least based on Demonbane's normal universes being often stated as endless. How does this help? Well, Kishin Hishou was released in 2006, and Gunshin Kyoshuu was announced alongside in the game credit so there is a lot to work from, starting from the Afterwords.

As metafictional as the Afterwords sounds, it still refers to several characteristics of "stories" in Kishin Hishou - every living being be what they are can hold and generate story-universes by themselves, a greater Mythos or Saga born from and houses infinite stories of endless diversity, there Mythos within/without Mythos similar to the endless series of transcending-universes - an elementary cornerstone of the cosmic scheme and likely everything in Demonbane at this point (bonus on how Kuzaku also states all things in Demonbane is infinite x infinite from its foundation), likewise, a Mythos can branch infinitely and those infinite divergent Mythoses can converge to form into a greater Mythos even (the case of Al Azif, who holds the story of Infinite Spiral within her, that was released by Another Blood and almost caused another Infinite Spiral to occur on the universe, it is what she receives from her unlimited selves that were destroyed in endless loop-worlds of Infinite Spiral, or Kuzaku holding his variant of Infinite Spiral as he also holds the memory of Infinite Spiral due to being half-Grimoire and a child of Al Azif) and lastly, in the Hierarchy of Stories and Stages, Another Blood mentions weaving words or magic can create worlds/stories, a reference to how magicians are said to be creators of universes by weaving magic/words from the Zanma Taisei/Kishin Houkou.

In contrast to the Hierarchy of Universes for the cosmic scheme, the Hierarchy of Stories begins with mortals to elevate the Baseline Universe as the standard for the all universes after until stated otherwise.

Ever since the first game, the Baselind Universe was introduced to have Non-Euclidean geometry, a Platonic Realm-like spiritual dimension, a Fantasy Realm connected by Mirror of Nitocris, the Imaginary Expansion Catapult dissolves its users to infinite existence and infinite nonexistence across all coordinates of spacetime, Sandalphon moving between worlds in a shadowry state where both sides are nonexistent to another, Ithaqua hurling Daijuuji Kurou across many strange worlds of an unknown plane of existence within the universe, the several Hearts of Infinity are repeatedly stated to connect to innumerable parallel worlds, alternate realities and draw power from the infinity, each Deus Machina also holds respective otherworldly universes (and each has their own variant of innumerable parallel worlds due Heart of Infinity) from within the universe, servants of evil gods interacting hyperdimensionally (as hyperdimensional realms also exist, not to be confused with the other Hyperdimension with a capital H), etc.

The second game - Kishin Hishou also repeats various types of worlds that exist within the Baseline Universe from the innumerable variation of Arkham Cities - those of different timelines, strange time periods, exotic spacetime, nightmare worlds, worlds of past, present, future, impossible worlds, nonexistence worlds, imaginary worlds, fantasy worlds, dream worlds, etc

The Baseline Universe in Demonbane is just that, houses a lot of things and such, so having a H1B structure within should not be a problem.

Just in case, and if there is anyone questioning about this, since I have very little opportunity to type long message like this
"endless series of transcending-universes - an elementary cornerstone of the cosmic scheme and likely everything in Demonbane at this point"
Which is a reference to the beginning of the Mainstream Multiverse and Infinity.

Initially, this hierarchy was applied for the Greater Multiverse, until it was clear there are variant and universality (as in common traits to everything) to this hierarchy. The Hierarchy of Stories is an example, but there are more examples from The Hyperdimension Section, where Edgar and Al Azif perceived countless universes are housed within what might be one admist an neverending series of Rings of Time.

If you have doubt of the "countless" part, a reminder that Gunshin Kyoshuu was announced alongside Kishin Hishou, and the game used "infinite" and "countless" interchangebly as seen in some examples,

"“It is a cauldron of all conceivable possibilities. A modern Arkham City. A past Arkham City. A future Arkham City.”
“Even an Arkham City without possibility of existence. An Arkham City that should never come to existence. An Arkham City that is purely imaginary. An Arkham City as a nightmarish dream----”
“Such innumerable Arkham Cities are overlapping and layering on upon another.”
“No way……”
“And the pillar that supports this distorting Arkham City is the story of [Al Azif].”
“Mine……?”
“You have the knowledge of countless timelines and countless worlds. The infinite [stories] that you traced, gave the reality (power of existence) to this Arkham City created by Another Blood.”

---

この子にだって、無数の道と無限の選択肢がある。

---

人間の世界に。
戦いだけではない、無数の道と無限の選択肢がある世界に。

---

And---the the 731 aspects within the 24 faces on the distorted trapezohedron,
reflect an innumerable of worlds (stories).
weave an infinitude of stories (worlds).
“Shining Trapeozhedron!
The elementary material to form this divine tool that seals the Creator (Azzathoth) is...”
The innumerable of worlds, from within each dwells infinitude of stories, unfold simultaneously and parallelly.

---

“From the infinite skies of innumerable of worlds,
what kind of beings are coming from there---“

---

I saw inside the infinite light.
At the advent of dawn.
At the loss of twilight.
I saw the innumerable stories that draw and weave the great river of time.
Click to expand...

Even Yog Whateley, of which a fraction that invades the reality from beyond spacetime was described via an ascending order Buddhism numbers until we have a ∞ symbol was often described being "countless" or having "countless" tentacles before Another Blood enlarged and empowered the horror to the threat of a normal Deus Machina (also uplifting his natural state as an unperceivable being that transcends dimensions even further).

The space is torn asunder, and the space-time bleeding out.
From the other side of space-time, the tremendously escalated miasma and odor flow in.
This stench, this presence, Armitage knew about them.
Beyond the space-time, the otherworldly eyes peeking into this world.
And not just only one/2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
They keep increasing/10, 10000, 10000000
Maglinant tumors eroding reality/10^12, 10^16, 10^20, 10^24, 10^28, 10^32, 10^36, 10^40, 10^44, 10^48, 10^52, 10^56, 10^60, 10^64, 10^68 (Translator note: These are Buddhism numbers that represent how vast and large they are, including Muryou Taisuu/無量大数 – which roughly mean “too many to count”)
Barrier /♂/of/another world/♀/
and /*/ reality /+/
has been/crumbled
[∞]
Click to expand...

So it is clear the "countless" universes that Edgar and Al Azif saw is an infinite series of universes.

Here is the fun part, in Demonbane Mythos to this day, there are only a few instances where the "infinite universes" was used, and those instances are always about the hierarchy of universes, as seen in the beginning of Mainstream Universe and Infinity, which means the infinite universes seen by Edgar and Al Azif was a hierarchy of universes by itself (being viewed as mere dream since they vanish like bubbles to them - a reference how lower worlds are seen by higher beings in Demonbane Mythos).

To support that, The Hyperdimension Section has covered the battle between Super Demonbane and Super Liber Legis, where they fought, destroyed, created or recreated an neverending series of universes, where the next one will always unfathomably dwarf and surpass the previous one in every aspect, and alongside, they also did the same to unlimited more dimensions, flows of causality and universes further.

As a reminder, this hierarchy of unlimited transcending-universes might be trapped within one of the infinite series of Rings of Time that was trivialized to a single moment of an eternity that is the lowest rung on this so-called Hierarchy of Eternities that was like a variant of Hierarchy of Universes, but is definitely a separate and larger hierarchy within Hypertime and Hyperspace, which is still below Hyper-hypertime and Hyper-hyperspace on the top of Hyperdimension.

そして――
彼らが辿り着いたのは、超時間と超空間を超え、超次元を上り詰めた超・超時空間。
そこでエドガーは、アル・アジフは、垣間見た。
泡のように現れては弾ける無数の宇宙で、
鎖のように連なる無限の時の輪の中で、
無数のデモンベインが闘う/闘った/闘っていた。
それらは在り得べき可能性のひとつ。
それらは選ばれし可能性のひとつ。
それらは失われし可能性のひとつ。
血液の流れのように、無限に分岐し、循環し、収束する、無数にしてひとつの運命、その一、部にしてすべてだ。
永劫の刻のすべてを、永劫を超えた次なる永劫を、無限の永劫の連鎖を――
魔を断つ永遠の剣(デモンベイン＝アートレータ・アエテルヌム)は闘い、闘い、闘い抜いていく。

そして――


　　　　＋

「――おっと残念、これは千日手のパターンか。じゃあ、この流れはなしだ」
ナイアルラトホテップは、時計をきりりと巻き戻した。


Next----
Where they arrived to was the hyper-hyper timespace that is on top of hyperdimension and above hypertime and hyperspace.
There, Edgar and Al Azif caught a glimpse.
Inside innumerable universes that burst like bubbles,
Inside the infinite rings of time that connect like chains,
Countless Demonbane fight, fought and have fought.
They are one of the feasible possibilities.
They are one of the chosen possibilities.
They are one of the lost possibilities.
They diverge, circulate and converge like the flows of blood, they are innumerable yet one fate, likewise, a part yet everything.
Across the entirety of a moment* of an eternity, across next eternity beyond the eternity, across the infinite chains of eternities----
The Eternal Sword That Smites Evil (Demonbane Athleta Aeternum) fights, fights and fights to the very end.

Then----

+

“----Oh my, it’s getting a repetitive pattern. Then, this flow should not exist then.”
Nyarlathotep rewound the clock instantly.

*(刻 = "time" or "moment" of a specific period of time instead of being more generalization. It was not "刹那" or literal "moment", but 刻 has high chance to hold similar meaning in the context of this quote, due to the nature of Demonbane's cosmology)
Click to expand...

To emphasize on the universality of the traits of Hierarchy of Universes and how many similar but separate hierarchies also exist out there, aside from the case with Hierarchy of Stories, Hierarchy of Eternities, we can move next on a pertaining clue to the Hierarchy of Stories and Games (that also states Infinite Spiral is also a Game set up on a Board by Nyarlathotep in the past, being viewed as a mere fleeting dream to the Outer God (same with all things in existence),

額が裂けた様に第三の眸が焔えている。
少女が、鼻で嗤った。
「往生際が悪いなあ。まだ諦めていないのかい、神様？」
「あの世界では無理だったがね。まあ、良い。もう一度、繰り返すとしようじゃないか。」
「今度は如何なる結果に辿り着くかは判らないが……まあ、それも一興。
空間も時間も私にとっては意味を成さない。宇宙の総ては泡沫の夢」
「泡沫の夢だとしてもね――神様でも壊せない、強くて綺麗なモノもあるんだよ。喩えばね――」
「喩えば――」

----Something rumbles.
Burning darkness bursts from the man’s body.
They enveloping him in flaming darkness.
The sky is clear and bright, with not a single cloud, yet the man’s face falls into shadow.
His pitch-black expression and his burning eyes brightly shone.
No.
A third flaming eye splits his forehead.
The girl snorts with contempt.
“You’re awfully stubborn for a god. Haven’t you given up yet?”
“I suppose my plans failed in that world. Well, no matter. Why not give it another try?”
“It’s impossible to say how it will end this time……. but that’s what makes it interesting. Time and space have no meaning for me. All things in the Universe is but a fleeting dream.”
“Even if it is all but a fleeting dream----there are things so strong and beautiful that even the gods can’t destroy them. For example---”
“For example----”
The girl looks back to the sky.
Click to expand...

----Underground Providence.
The Geofront (Secret Shrine) of [Starry Wisdom].
“And thus, the world has been torn apart! Behold! The causality is dissolved, countless stories are overlapping to each other!”
“----For it is Chaos! It was the beloved Chaos that swallowed the entire world itself!”
“[Starry Wisdom]! …… Father! Where are you!?”
“Daijuuji Kuzaku! So you too have arrived at my table!? You will challenge my Game, just like your parents did!?”
“Game, you said?”
“That’s right…… All things are merely a Game (jest). I am the one who toys with the world. I am----”
“----I am Game Keeper (Toys Manipulator).”
Click to expand...

Another Blood involved on comparable and greater scale, she was on the verge of reviving the Infinite Spiral, even trapping and releasing the worlds within Kuzaku, who was from another world into her own world, which is not a surprise because she is considered to be a [Gamekeeper], whose very job was to hold and direct the Game and the Board they set,

The heavy sound of gigantic gears moving can be heard.
A giant crimson tornado is swirling in front of the young boy.
Engulfed by the crimson tornado, screws/gears/springs/pipes/frames/wires/armors surrounded----then they mingled, meshed and built up altogether.
“Come----when I divide the blood of steel!”
“Demonbane!?”
“Now, all of the pieces are set in motion! Let us begin the Game!”
“Daijuuji Kuzaku----you who act as a Traveler (Wanderer of Space-Time), will traverse across time and the world that has been dissolved in pieces.”
“If you wish to recover the torn world! And if you wish to reclaim your torn self! Then better following my avatar…… the Game Keeper (Administrator)! Collect the fragments of Chaos and return the world into one whole again!”
“She is the very first enemy that has been granted to you! Come, let the act of battle commerce!”
“Ahahahahahahahaha!”
“YOU BASTARDDDDDD----!”
“----Game Start!”
“Violate…… upon I release the forbidden blood!”
“LEMURIAAAAA…… IMPACTTTT----!”
“Forward on your journey. Pray to the universe that next time and once again, you shall meet I, who has a thousand forms!”
Click to expand...

Even as a Gamekeeper, Another Blood is the most lesser of all Gamekeepers in the neverending series of Games beyond Games and Stages beyond Stages, where Nyarlathotep is the highest of all Gamekeepers that set of all this up from the start, An exampe can be seen from the Clockwork Phantom's Automataverse was a higher Stage than Another Blood's World and it already trivialized the entire thing as mere dreams, and backdrop the grander Stage of [Mechanical Nightmare],

War of Magic (Great War):

Year 194X. Post-Elder God’s ending, the world line of Daijuuji Kuzaku. The division done by Nyarlathotep. Battle against Game Keepers.

Kuzaku crossed over this world line to chase after Another Blood.
Click to expand...

“How about retiring yourself from all of these Game making antic then. Have you realized what the heck are we yet?”
“We are the sword. The sword that smites Evil. The blade whose might judge even God. Thus we will bring this whole Game Board down and cut it to pieces along with the wretched strings you attached.”
“What lies beyond Game (Board) is also another Game (Board). What lies beyond the Stage is also another Stage. There shall be no escape for you.”
“Escape? What dumbass shit you just said……?”
“I’m going to beat the bloody crap out of every ************* thing of the Game (Board) beyond Game (Board), as well as Stage beyond Stage, do you copy!”
Click to expand...

“This isn’t the end…… This is not the end, Demonbane……! While this nightmare may conclude, the Game shall persist throughout eternity!”
“The Game shall continue! Til’ the moment when ‘death’ pierces ‘time’, and ‘time’ erodes ‘death’!”
“We are comrades! The siblings of darkness who joined by the melody of demonic flute, and together we spin our blinding nightmares!”
“We cannot be parted, Demonbane! How detestable of you, O’ my beloved!”
“I should have told you, Chaos. But you will continue to lose, forever to the future and forever to the past.”
“Evil shall be vanquished. Repeatedly over and over again. Forever. For all eternity.”
“And then people will think that…… Ah, now this is the proper world (story).”
“Once again, in the end, the Hero slays the Evil Dragon, and all will live happily ever after…… correct?”
“Though as cliché as it is…… but now, I am not despising it anymore.”
“Come, now this is truly the ending (finale). Actors who have finished their roles must depart from the stage, do you copy……!”
“Aha…… Ahahahaha…… Ahahahahahahahahahahaha! I see. I see. Then……”
“Let us embrace this climax (final act)……”
“O’ my Grim Reaper----the most hackneyed Deus Ex Machina (ending) of all time!”
““As thou desire! ----We shall rebel against God!””
““Become the very foundation for our Happy End (ending), Chaos!””
Click to expand...

It is very clear that Demonbane Mythos has loads of hierarchies and are ubiquitous in sharing similar trait of Hierarchy of Universes, even as separate hierarchies of levels below and above the common Greater Multiverse (the prominent examples are the Hierarchy of Stories is lower than Greater Multiverse, the Hierarchy of Eternities dwarfs the Greater Multivers, and Hierarchy of Games and Stages transcend True Cosmos), so time for a small conclusion.

TLDR for Tiering Proposal;
Hierarchy of Stories ∈ Baseline Universe (H1B) < Universe of Unknown Nebulae < Universe of Unknown Colors < Huge Universe < Slow Universe < Dead Universe < Infinite Transcending Universes and Dimensions aka Hierarchy of Universes < Ring of Time < Unlimited Chain of Rings of Time < A Moment of An Eternity < Hierarchy of Eternities < Hypertime and Hyperspace < Hyper-hypertime and Hyper-hyperspace =< Hyperdimension < Hyper-hyperdimension (due to the existence of hyper-hypertime and hyper-hyperspace) < ??? (a potential immeasure hierarchies that lie between and could never reach to Outerverse) < Outerverse < Infinite Spiral =< True Cosmos (Infinite Spiral is more or less a distortion of a True Cosmos)

Honestly, hearing Hyperdimension being classified as H1A is a surprise, I thought it would be 1A+ or something so hope this can help a bit.

As for the Tiering Proposal in my threads, I suggested the three main DYN characters being H1A based on a True Cosmos being originally highly agreed as 1A+ from what I recalled, and Yoguruma Mugen's Innerverse (a minor realm and a minor trait she has) trivializes the DYN World (a replica of the old world that houses infinite True Cosmoses destroyed by Dead End) into screenplays, displays and a chessboard. The same girl also defined, organized, created, destroyed and recreated the DYN World for potentially unlimited amount of times, coupling with her nature as the identity-less and pronoun-less (I), and as beings of comparable power, Narukami Chikage and Azana Hatsumi are scaled to her.

However, with the recent possible changes to tiering for Demonbane Mythos, I will place the proposal for three characters on hold.
Whether Azana Hatsumi, Yoguruma Mugen or Narukami Chikage remain as H1A, Demonbane Mythos will still receive a ridiculous number of Tier 0 due to its powerscaling and how ungodly fragile magicians and Freaks are to real gods.

This is all I can say for now.
 
Last edited:
Yeah. Um. I don't want to clog up the thread with my own summary, but I definitively see High 1-A way before the peak of the verse, and depending on how much trivializing of those High 1-As are the higher tiers, which admittedly determining that is not my strongest suit, 0 definitely seems very possible, and quite a few of them would be such at that in-verse.
 
Regarding the demonbane revisions there seem to be quite a few threads regarding it. Isn't that a bit of a messy way to reintroduce the series and to get a tiering going? Wouldn't it be easier to remake all of this under one thread with the purpose of establishing a tiering consensus for the series first? I'm not sure how the process is going so far with the staff, but from an outsiders perspective, it seems a bit tedious and messy to have to jump from thread to thread to read points and take in all this information. If it's already in the process of being actively discussed in spite of that then it's probably fine, just considering a way to streamline this process.
 
Feel like we will stuck in this limbo forever if there isn't anyone willing to help out. I'm tired of waiting for Ultima everyday already.
 
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